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Mobo not recognizing chasis fan

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overclockmonkey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 11:02am
Hello everyone

My Z97 Anniversary isn't recognizing the chasis fan at all. 
Neither is the application SpeedFan.

I want to change the fan speed but I'm tired of using the UEFI all the time. 

FANtastic tuning is having trouble recognizing it as well as the hardware moniter in AsrockTuning. 

However  Fantastic tunning does work with it even though it always states it's at 0 rpm. 

The problem is that I can't keep using it since it lags for some reason even though I have 8gigs. Not to mention at times it gives me trouble by saying "out of memory". The app shop however doesn't even bother to run, it always says that. However I didn't have that problem when I had the 4690k, now that I have the G3258 (which was what the motherboard intended for), now I can't use it.Censored


Last note: The 2 fans in my case are connected to a fan hub that came with the case. Here's a picture of it. Since both case fans are 3 pin instead of 4, I attatch them to that. The left side of the hub goes to the chasis fan header and the right side goes to the psu.


TL;DR z97 anniversary motherboard can't recognize the fans connected to chasis fan header.
FanTastic works but it always says that the header is at 0rpm. 
AsRockAtunning lags  a bit and is "out of memory"  from time to time


Edited by overclockmonkey - 19 Nov 2015 at 11:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote overclockmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 5:32am
If I can get any suggestions on how to deal with this, it would be great!Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 6:00am
I have to say, if both the BIOS _and_ SpeedFan are not recognizing it nor controlling it one of two things would strike me odd.

1. The fans circuitry inside is faulty.

or

2. That pic'd controller hub is either faulty, or incompatible.



So, assuming you do in fact have one fan connected to that hub that IS being read correctly, I'd move the one NOT working to the now working fans connection and see if it gets picked up or not.

If the problem fans problems follow it regardless of where connected I'd say you have a bad fan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 6:06am
Opps. I just re-read your 1st post.

No!

You can not read two fans connected to one Mb header. It just isn't electrically possible. No mechanically.

It will only read one. Think. How would any sensor be able to determine each fan when both fans signals are coming at it on the same wire???


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote overclockmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 9:52am
The UEFI/BIOS can recognize it, SpeedFan and the Asrock app can't

I figured that through the hub, it would be recognized as one fan and not two.

I'll wonder if the UEFI can recognize it, I'll post an update soon.

UPDATE: So the UEFI also doesn't recognize the fans, no matter what setting I set it to, it does absolutely nothing.

This is odd since in the last configuration I had it, the cpu fan and both case fans were hooked up to the hub that went to the cpu header and the UEFI had no trouble controlling them all at the same time.

The chasis fan category in the fan tuning application in AsrockingAtunning does the job however it doesn't recognize the fan rpm. After "Start Fan Test", it continues to have 0rpm on everything where as with the cpu, everything is listed. 

I guess as long as the application works, there's no need to touch anything? 

I would like to note that these are the stock 3 pin case fans in case I haven't already.


Edited by overclockmonkey - 21 Nov 2015 at 10:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 10:01am
Well, as I am a User here and in no way associated with ASRock you can do whatever suits you.

What I said is fact and there's no getting around it. One MB header might power two fans but it is impossible to control those same two fans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote overclockmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 10:14am
And given that you're not associated with Asrock, I really appreciate your help that you've given thus far.

in case you didn't read the last post, I should note that this motherboard has controlled all 3 fans (2xcase + 1 cpu fan) via the cpu header with no problem. It was all controlled via the UEFI. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 10:34am
Yea, I see now you've edited it and included more info in doing so. re: UPDATE

I'm more confused than when I first posted now though :)

Your post immediately above says the three fans are controlled. Yet in your update it says the app couldn't read the tach wire/RPMs of the fans.

What I believe your seeing is the app/BIOS varying the voltage applied to the one fan that it _can_ read. And by default the other two are reacting as such.

Still, what with the out of memory and other abnormalities you have going on there I would separate off the chassis fans to the hub you have and leave the CPU fan as the only one on the CPUFAN header.

And TY for recognizing my efforts here helping, or at least my trying to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote overclockmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 1:15pm
Well when I had an i5, I hooked up all 3 fans to the hub that connected to the cpu fan header and it worked. I have no idea if the asrock app was able to control it but nevertheless it did work. 

Now that I have the pentium anniversary that I got last weekend, I changed up the connections so the case fans could be independent from the cpu fan cooler which is why I'm now stuck in this mess. 

I'm still quite new to this stuff as you can tell and I've just read up one post on another forum and someone said that the chasis headers are voltage controlled and not through PWM as shown in that picture I linked. 




I still should state that even though asrock app can control the fan, something in the computer over rides it and it goes back to the way it was. 


Edited by overclockmonkey - 21 Nov 2015 at 1:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2015 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by overclockmonkey overclockmonkey wrote:

Hello everyone

My Z97 Anniversary isn't recognizing the chasis fan at all. 
Neither is the application SpeedFan.

I want to change the fan speed but I'm tired of using the UEFI all the time. 

FANtastic tuning is having trouble recognizing it as well as the hardware moniter in AsrockTuning. 

However  Fantastic tunning does work with it even though it always states it's at 0 rpm. 

The problem is that I can't keep using it since it lags for some reason even though I have 8gigs. Not to mention at times it gives me trouble by saying "out of memory". The app shop however doesn't even bother to run, it always says that. However I didn't have that problem when I had the 4690k, now that I have the G3258 (which was what the motherboard intended for), now I can't use it.Censored


Last note: The 2 fans in my case are connected to a fan hub that came with the case. Here's a picture of it. Since both case fans are 3 pin instead of 4, I attatch them to that. The left side of the hub goes to the chasis fan header and the right side goes to the psu.


TL;DR z97 anniversary motherboard can't recognize the fans connected to chasis fan header.
FanTastic works but it always says that the header is at 0rpm. 
AsRockAtunning lags  a bit and is "out of memory"  from time to time


Starting from your first post, lets examine your statement about how the fans, etc, are connected to the fan hub of your case:

Since both case fans are 3 pin instead of 4, I attatch them to that. The left side of the hub goes to the chasis fan header and the right side goes to the psu.

In your picture, the right side is the four pin PWM fan connection, and the left side is the 12V power to the hub, not that this matters much.

How do I know that? From a picture and text from the Phanteks Enthoo Luxe manual, this one:



This is a four pin PWM controlled fan hub that can work with three pin fans.

The first major detail we need to examine is the four pin PWM input on the right side of the hub, and the description in the text. Notice that the instructions specify connecting that input to a four pin PWM CPU Fan header.

Reading the next paragraph, we find a warning about most mother boards with four pin Chassis fan headers that seem to be PWM controlled, but they aren't. This is exactly what is happening to you.

Usually, ASRock boards have a four pin Chassis Fan1 fan header. This Chassis Fan1 header may or may not be PWM controlled. On a sub-$100 board like the Z97 Anniversary, I doubt it will be a true PWM fan header. The four pin Chassis Fan2 header is even less likely to be a true PWM controlled fan header.

Your own description of how the fans worked fine when you had the four pin input to the fan hub connected to the CPU Fan1 header, but not after moving it to one of the Chassis Fan headers, verifies what I said above.

Are you using the Chassis Fan1 or Fan2 header now for connection to the fan hub?

The next paragraph is important, since it describes what happens when the fan hub is not connected to a true PWM fan header, which is your major problem:

The 12V SATA power cable can not be used to power the PWM hub if
connecting to these types of 4-pin connectors, due to the interference
with the RPM regulation by voltage (resulting in the fans running on
full RPM). The PWM hub will draw its power from the 4-pin connector,
which is limited to a total device consuming 30W in total.

This is telling us that you have three fans being powered by the single Chassis Fan (1 or 2) header, since your current input connection will not use the 12V power from the PSU.

What bothers me in that statement is the limit of 30W total. That assumes all mother board CPU Fan headers are capable of providing 30W at 12V. That is 2.5Amps, which is way beyond the capacity of most if not all current mother boards. Your board will likely provide 12W max from the CPU FAN1 header, which is 1Amp, but the Chassis Fan headers may be even lower than that, about 6W or 0.5A.

Since we have no idea what the fans you have connected to the hub are rated at for power, you should check that and to be safe unplug at least one of them until you change the current configuration. That is very important! The strange problems you are having might be related to the probable overload on the Chassis Fan header.

Finally, we see in the instructions that only the fan that is connected to the hub's FAN1 output will have its speed/RPM signal sent back to the mother board. It is impossible to monitor the other fan's speeds when using the fan hub.

Of course, that happens when the fan hub is connected to a true PWM fan hub, and is working correctly. Who knows what happens when it isn't as in your current configuration.

TL;DR The four pin Chassis Fan headers are not true PWM controlled fan headers, so the fan hub does not work correctly when connected to those fan headers. Part of the incorrect operation of the fan hub is the three fans connected to the hub are drawing power from the Chassis Fan header instead of the PSU. The Chassis Fan header will be overloaded by the power needed by the three chassis fans, which may be causing some or all of your other issues.

I can think of two simple fixes for you that will have the fan hub working correctly, and allow your four pin PWM fan on your CPU cooler (IF that is what you have, we don't know) to change its speed with the CPU temperature.

  1. Connect the fan hub to the CPU FAN1 header with the four pin/wire cable. Connect the CPU cooler's fan to either the CPU FAN2 header, or the fan hub's FAN1 header.
  2. Get a PWM fan splitter cable, with one input and two outputs. One of the two outputs will have four pins, the other will have three pins. The four pin output will be connected to the fan hub. The three pin output is connected to the CPU cooler fan.
  3. If you use a PWM fan splitter cable, connect it as I suggest in (2), which will guarantee the correct operation of the fan hub. But this method will not allow you to monitor the CPU fan speed. You can also try connecting the PWM splitter's three pin output to the fan hub, and the CPU Cooler's fan to the four pin output. This configuration will still send the true PWM control signal to the fan hub, so it will work correctly, but you will lose the RPM signal from the hub's FAN1 connection. But you will get the CPU cooler's fan RPM signal sent back to the board.
Speed Fan does not work with every mother board. It also can't work with fan hubs that have one input and output, and be expected to control each fan individually.

The "lag" you talk about in A-Tuning may simply be its sampling or polling rate. That is, A-Tuning only reads the fan speed data once every four or five seconds. All monitoring programs work like this, but some have a shorter interval between data reads, or can be adjusted.

When you see the "Out of memory" message, have you checked your actual memory usage? Checking Resource Monitor by clicking on the Memory button at the top will show how much memory is being used by what, and how much is available.


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