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AM4 BIOS info

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publicsavior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote publicsavior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 4:52pm
Oh, yeah. Right. I hadn't thought of that. Thank you very much.
I just wonder why the support team couldn't give me this plausible explanation.
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Xaltar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by publicsavior publicsavior wrote:

Oh, yeah. Right. I hadn't thought of that. Thank you very much.
I just wonder why the support team couldn't give me this plausible explanation.


That's pretty much the whole problem, AMD needs to be more transparent with all
this. Board partners have to skate a fine line between upsetting their vendors (AMD/intel)
and upsetting their consumers. There is no perfect balance, someone will always
be angry. Many times when an obvious solution is not mentioned or explained by
a manufacturer's support staff it is simply because they are not allowed to.
AMD and Intel have stipulations and conditions for licensing their products.
If a piece of advice or explanation is in violation of those conditions, the
poor tech support person is not allowed to say it. This applies to all board partners.


To be fair to ASRock, they often get in trouble for putting their consumers first.

Edited by Xaltar - 08 Apr 2021 at 5:28pm
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publicsavior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote publicsavior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 8:31pm
I can understand that. Nevertheless:
It must be clearly stated that a manufacturer who creates complex high-tech products for the consumer can not assume that one is an offspring of Einstein and can answer questions about the product himself. If the producer or support takes the liberty or is ordered not to answer specific questions normal mortals, then I don't need the product. Then they can keep the high-tech product among themselves.
What I'm saying is: as long as not dealing with quantum physics, I have to assume that the producer should then be smart and capable enough to strictly follow the principle of Keep it Simple, so as not to have to evade unpleasant questions from the consumer about compatibility when the product is released.
To keep a long story short: The design of the X570Aqua is simply awesome. So far so good. The BIOS is IMHO a disaster. And since I don't stare at the mobo all the time and struggle more with the BIOS, the overall concept is inadequate.
What I want to say: In my opinion, a producer of a 1000$ high-tech product should be able to create a BIOS interface that can satisfy the 1mV enthusiast up to 7000 Mhz on the one hand and also the butcher with 4 clicks up to the operating limits. Everything else simply has no future.


Please, correct me if I am wrong.
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Xaltar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:03pm
So what you are saying is:
You would like to see a simpler, more intuitive BIOS interface.

While I agree, there is a broad spectrum of users from completely ignorant all the
way to extreme enthusiasts that actually want more options opened up, you need
to bare in mind that the vast majority of the confusing elements are RAM related.
In many cases users simply can't get their rated performance out of the system
without these advanced options. The KISS solution would be to enable XMP and go.
If it doesn't work, return the RAM and buy a different kit/model. Repeat till it
works. The simple truth is that the system is only required to operate at the
frequency supported by the CPU's IMC. Anything beyond that is technically an
overclock.

RAM manufacturers have confused the issue with XMP. Most people today assume that
XMP = default speed for that RAM. It does not, it is an extreme profile the RAM
manufacturer expects will work on most systems but they do not
guarantee it.

All that said, I fully agree that the BIOS can be a daunting thing to work with,
particularly when settings are poorly explained and duplicated all over the place.
ASRock used to have a simple UEFI screen that you would see by default
but many users hated it and it got scrapped. Personally, I like ASRock's BIOS
implementation, I appreciate how much they leave exposed for the curious and
the experienced to play with. If it wasn't for RAM issues on AMD, I doubt many
people would complain. Being forced to search for a dozen or more settings just
to get your RAM to work at or near it's XMP rating is a pain, no one will deny
this.


Edited by Xaltar - 08 Apr 2021 at 10:03pm
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Xaltar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2021 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

The simple truth is that the system is only required to operate at the
frequency supported by the CPU's IMC. Anything beyond that is technically an
overclock.


I for one would love to see manufacturers implement a one click option that enables
the IMC's rated frequency on any RAM installed, as an alternative to XMP using
minimalistic timings and voltages that are likely to work on just about any kit.

With DDR5 on the horizon now, this will all hopefully become moot soon. One would
hope everyone learned their lesson from the DDR4 fiasco.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote publicsavior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 3:22am
Intuitive....that's the word I was looking for. And that says it all.
This mobo in particular truly would deserve it.   
Ok, .....we are strictly talking about BIOS UI's.
Imo ...how good a BIOS UI is can not depend on how familiar you, me or all others are to that manufacturer's design. Thousends of different BIOSes call the same thing with different names, for example the uncore (L3 cache of the CPU) frequency can also be called mesh frequency and ring frequency. So how do i know and Asrock uses douzens of abbreviations and the up-popping hint box does not tell me a lot.
Was it such a big problem to built a DUAL BIOS UI (Pro/Non-Pro) for an 1000$ Mobo that satisfies both the 24/7 enthusiast and also the user who works from 9 to 5£ Was it really such a big problem to implement within the BIOS UI a unique Built In Test Equipment or Feature or Benchmark that is capable of delivering base, best or initial OC settings£
To be fair: In terms of flexibility this UI is a milestone but far from being transparent , far from easy to use, far from being easy to understand, far from easy navigation and far from being easy on the eyes for someone like me who has seen and worked with more than 20 different BIOS UI´s. It is asking too much for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gizmic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 3:59am
i'm on x470TU + 3950x my cpu is capped at 3733 and yes i can run my kits 3733 cl 14 on current 470 bios it didn't fare well on 460 (3600 cl 14) and 462 3200 (cl 14)

i'm guessing your main problem is surely using 4 sticks of ram its really hard on the imc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbsentPresence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 12:09pm

Board model: X570 Taichi Razer Edition
BIOS version: BETA 1.42
CPU: Ryzen 5950x
RAM: 32Gb (4x8Gb)G.Skillz Trident Z Neo 3600mhz CL14 (Samsung)

Notes: The above post is right regarding the 4 DIMMS and OCing. I can't get the 4 of these above 3800 when fully installed. Running 2x8 at a time though gives me significantly more overclocking room, but I have yet to find a combination that gives more consistent performance than its XMP of 3600 @ CL14 with slightly tightened subtimings. I just want it stable so I can play with my 16 cores lol ;)

This board and I had a rocky start to our relationship for the first few days. She would not, under any circumstance, acknowledge the existence my NVME drives regardless of slot placement or correct BIOS settings (end result: I bought a new 970 Evo Plus, turned off CSM completely, booted in under Win10 USB drive and installed Windows, which then correctly identified all my drives without me having to wipe my system; even after swapping CSM settings back to their factory setting. I spent extra $, so its a good thing this board has a 3rd M.2 slot and my GPU covers up the PCIE slot that gets shut off by the use of M.2_3)

Aside from that, it's really been great in terms of its power delivery and thermal mitigation. I shelled out $400 for this mostly for its VRM capabilities, tolerating the RGB aspect only inasmuch as it doesn't threaten my temperatures.

That said, ASRock: I really appreciate the BETA release with the AGESA update. I am doing really perverse and unspeakable things to this processor's curves via the UEFI alone as well as with the currently in-development Clocktuner utility by 1usmus. Most of the other board manufacturers have recently released a full update for their boards...any idea when we can expect one for the Taichi Razer£ I'm reluctant to do anything too extreme with a BETA release; as per your company's multiple warnings, but I wanna go play with the other kids. =(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote publicsavior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 6:47pm
ThreeDee referred to the on-chip controller, which limits the clock. I have now come to terms with this. I ran my memory through several test series with different BIOS versions and reached the 4000Mhz mark. For stability reasons, I chosed 3833Mhz with the current BIOS 3.4.
If Asrock is anything to go by, it delivers a masterpiece BIOS for the X570aqua. But I don't expect that much enthusiasm.    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 2:32pm
Board model: X570 Steel Legend
BIOS version: 3.70
CPU: 3700X
RAM: 2 x 8GB Crucial/Micron BLE8G4D36BEEAK.M8FE1

Notes:

Finally, everything seems to be working!
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