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KB3064209 breaks the G3258

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Londo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Londo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: KB3064209 breaks the G3258
    Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 2:22am
I use a G3258 on a H97m Pro4, latest Bios 1.9 Running Windows 10 10240. 

What I thought was a Win10 issue turns out to reach all the way to current Win7 users ever since Microsoft released KB3064209 - If you have a G3258 and restart after this installed, you go into a re-start 'death loop' --- that is, until you go in the Bios and select ( 1 ) core ONLY, or shutting down 2nd Core.

This update, the June Intel Microcode Update did something terrible to the G3258, just check the web yourself you will see it.  I do understand this may be a Microsoft thing, but at the same time as I looked at the past bios Update for this AsRock board, most of the past revisions all include something to do with the G3258 particularity, so maybe this IS NOT a MS issue only and my board needs a new Bios to fix whatever the powers that be have decided on whatever necessary update was needed out there to change the CPU codes.  I suspect this update was integrated into all Win10 builds after 10130. which my board ran fine with zero problems (10130) but afterwards, that's when I started having the death loop problem.

Any fix or knowledge would be appreciated.  
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odiebugs View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 2:35am
So you're saying you have win 10 10240 which is the first series RTM TH1. 

This has nothing to do with ASrock, and this falls on Micro. 

If you didn't save the 10130 DL, then you're out of luck and will need to wait till the next TH release to see if it's corrected.  Or you'll need to uninstall the new 10240 and roll back if you can get stable enough on one core.

Only if enough people report this same problem to windows 10 feedback, will they look at it. 

This was a windows 8 update,  they didn't hold off till the first RTM and then inject this code.  This update has nothing to do with why your 10240 is looping. 




Edited by odiebugs - 20 Jul 2015 at 2:42am
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Londo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Londo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 5:14am
It is  N O T  solely a Win8 Update - Win7 users with the G3258 are reporting they got this via windows update:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=47661

The Win7 guys was my 1st real clue that this wasn't a problem only to the brand new Win10 -

That being said, can I ask how do you know for sure that it's not integrated into 10240? I  myself, and believe me I've tried, cannot get anyone at MS to tell me this or anything else on this issue!

Again, my questioning any AsRock involvement was due to this:

 http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/H97M%20Pro4/?cat=Download&os=BIOS

1.2 directly mentioned the G3258 of all the ga-zillions of CPU's intel makes - - - even 1.9, the latest and the one I am using as I type this, directly states the very same thing the MS update released and altered CPU codes -

Around the same time this update was released, shortly afterwards build 10158,10159,10162,10166 and now 10240 - ANY attempts to update to ANY NEW BUILDS STARTING WITH 10158 started my death loop, while everything ran 100% fine starting with 9987 up to 10130.  Something changed in the builds - and yes, logic says its MS to blame - however, that being said - I get to ask AsRock this question I am asking, especially since THEY mentioned the creepy G3258 specifically. 

Look, i'm simply pointing possible issues based on circumstantial's and that's it.  But if you have proof that's not in the build I would love to see it


Edited by Londo - 20 Jul 2015 at 8:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 6:23am
You posted your CPU, but not storage. If you don't have  NVME storage,  please  try to flash the 1.50 UEFI,  and if you don't have NVME,  there was no reason to flash the 1.90., and shouldn't have been flashed to it. 

Which versions did you upgrade to and which if any have you cleaned installed ? 

Not to be rude, but asking ASrock a question about a OS that isn't support at this moment isn't something that should be done.  It's for IT people. 

Please hold on for a MOD to see if they can help better with a OS you shouldn't be running.  With the info you posted and the additional ones I asked,  it will give them a better chance to assist you.

Thanks and hope you get this resolved.


Edited by odiebugs - 20 Jul 2015 at 6:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2015 at 6:40pm
Support for the G3258 was added for all ASRock 8 and 9 series chipset boards in 2014, but I don't think that was a microcode update. Since the G3258 is a Haswell processor, it should work with any Haswell compatible board. But there was an issue unique to the G3258 that caused the need for an UEFI/BIOS update.

While the G3258 does not support Turbo, the way Intel processors currently are over clocked is via the core multiplier. That is tied to the Turbo option, even if some board's UEFI/BIOS allow users to "Disable" Turbo but still OC. That is smoke and mirrors, Turbo is Enabled if you can increase the core multipliers.

ASRock added a UEFI/BIOS feature that removed the Turbo option if a CPU did not support Turbo. That did not allow the G3258 to be over clocked. I experienced this myself in a Z87 board. The "Support G3258" UEFI/BIOS update put back the Turbo option, at least for the G3258. Z87 boards even had a Beta BIOS that did that.

Support for the G3258 might have included a microcode update for 8 series chipset boards, but not 9 series chipset boards. ASRock normally states "microcode update" when that is done, but you don't see that in the 1.20 update for your board.

MS doing microcode updates? Scary stuff IMO. Besides Win 10 where the updates are outside of our control, I never let Windows Updates apply automatically.

If your board will POST into the UEFI/BIOS after this MS update, IMO ASRock has done their job fine. If Windows won't boot after an MS update, my finger points at MS.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Londo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2015 at 4:36am
Thank You parsec, you broke that down so well even I (:P) can understand, and I came in here asking questions will the full understanding that most likely 90% of this was Microsoft's doing  -  in this problem, this ranges from Win7 up to Win10 builds after 10130, and other board manufactures including MSI, Gigabyte, even Asus, with the only thing in common is that update + the G3258 cpu.  It's posted enough everywhere to be found easy for anyone to see.

I have 3 builds withing the last 3 months on AsRock boards, this G3258 is my 'lesser' builds of the three and the only one giving me problems.  The other 2 is a 4790k on a AsRock Z97 Extreme6 and a 4690 on a AsRock Z97Extreme3.  I have another lesser build of a G3250 on a MSI board, and none of these have ANY problems whatsoever with anything.  

Seeing the G3258 specifically mentioned in the Bios updates is what originally led me here. Again (easy odiebuggs easy good lord) I was just data-mining for information that might lead me to a solution and felt it completely ok that I at the least get to ask a question, not blaming.  Thank You again Mr.Parsec :)




Edited by Londo - 21 Jul 2015 at 4:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2015 at 5:19am
I shouldn't post after working long hrs, easy to get annoyed and post wrong things as a retaliation.  

One Microsoft post for that update shows only as win 7, but ignore which OS. 

Microcode is written to the CPU and for safety it's read only so no reverse engineering.  

Usually Intel sends Microcode patch out to be a BIOS update, this time it went to Microsoft and  in win 10 it could be in boot or in the kernel.  

I don't know what you have for a clean install build or if you have one at all, but if you do try the other install if you have one. If you installed in UEFI, try MBR.  If this was all upgrading and you don't have a install, you will have to wait.  EFI boot from BIOS/UEFI might have an effect. 

Have no clue if this would work, because loading could happen and it's boot might not be the cause,  but with windows given the micro, two things can happen, they can ignore it and leave it in, then ASrock might have to find a fix using UEFI from Intel if they can't find work around.

The other is that Windows will get a patch from Intel to patch it or remove it until problems like TSX instruction set can be fixed or the new bugs that it creates.  

The first google hit for windows 10 and this CPU,  death loop is a MSI board,  and we see asus. So it's not only ASrock affected, nor is it one OS, this falls back to Intel and chipset.   

You'll need to wait and see what happens, but contact support directly from the ASrock MOBO website and report it so they know to work on it.

Unless a MOD posts they have reported it.  

Other people could read this and it might help them. 


Edited by odiebugs - 21 Jul 2015 at 10:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ASRock_TSD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2015 at 9:25pm
Greetings, This is ASRock Technical Department.

The Microsoft released an update "KB3064209" to update Intel Microcode.
The new microcode will cause the system cannot overclock except Z-series platform.
On your case, if you would like to keep the overclocking function on H97 platform, please use Windows 7 or 8.1 without install the update "KB3064209".
If you would like to use Windows 10, we will build a BIOS that update Microcode for you.

Kindest Regards,
ASRock TSD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moondancer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2015 at 11:07pm
This is great news that ASRock is going to look into this, but to reinforce what Londo said in the original post, this is not necessarily an overclocking problem.   I have an identical setup ( G3258 on an ASRock H97M Pro4 ) and experienced identical problems with Windows 10 Insider Preview.   Builds above 10130 incorporated KB3064209 which was touted as an Intel microcode patch for Win 7/8x, and those G3258 users who chose to apply it in Win7/8x immediately experienced problems.
In Win 10 Insider Preview you don't have a choice about KBs that are applied - builds above 10130 automatically include KB3064209 and it is still there in 10240 which as far as we know is RTM.   You will get stuck in a vicious boot loop unless you disable a processor core.    This behavior is not specific to ASRock or the H97 chipset - the common denominator is the processor.
 
I assure you I'm not overclocked - in trying to work through this problem I ultimately had to reset CMOS, so I have the most vanilla machine imaginable at the moment running nothing more than an OS and an anti-virus.   And so it shall stay until someone comes up with a solution to give me back my  other processor core.   But then I have that luxury as this is a new build.   The issue will not be so kind to others.
 
Thanks again for looking into this.   Crossing my fingers for a speedy solution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2015 at 3:50am
Originally posted by Moondancer Moondancer wrote:

This is great news that ASRock is going to look into this, but to reinforce what Londo said in the original post, this is not necessarily an overclocking problem.   I have an identical setup ( G3258 on an ASRock H97M Pro4 ) and experienced identical problems with Windows 10 Insider Preview.   Builds above 10130 incorporated KB3064209 which was touted as an Intel microcode patch for Win 7/8x, and those G3258 users who chose to apply it in Win7/8x immediately experienced problems.
In Win 10 Insider Preview you don't have a choice about KBs that are applied - builds above 10130 automatically include KB3064209 and it is still there in 10240 which as far as we know is RTM.   You will get stuck in a vicious boot loop unless you disable a processor core.    This behavior is not specific to ASRock or the H97 chipset - the common denominator is the processor.
 
I assure you I'm not overclocked - in trying to work through this problem I ultimately had to reset CMOS, so I have the most vanilla machine imaginable at the moment running nothing more than an OS and an anti-virus.   And so it shall stay until someone comes up with a solution to give me back my  other processor core.   But then I have that luxury as this is a new build.   The issue will not be so kind to others.
 
Thanks again for looking into this.   Crossing my fingers for a speedy solution.

The solution was posted above yours,  look above your post,  where ASrock TSD said they will add it to the BOIS and it should fix the problem.  

If you need help finding the one above your post, post back. 

 If you don't want auto update then you turn them off.  Only people who shouldn't be using preview are stuck with ( KB's, ) updates.


Edited by odiebugs - 26 Jul 2015 at 3:51am
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