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Guidance on Selection of Intel 270 Board

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theBitz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 7:23am
About to order a build based on an ASRock 270 board for which there are several that appear to meet my needs, but worry that I am missing something.  Long time computer user but this is a first build at age 84.  I have settled on a i5-7500 processor and a Samsung 960 EVO M.2 250 GB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0x4 which will be the boot disk where Windows 10 Home will reside.  Yes I also will have a 1TB HD and a CD and 550W power supply.  I will start with a Radeon RX 460 video card to open the door to gaming.  I see that possibly in the future as I become more sedentary.  
 
So the ASRock H70M Pro4 Micro ATX board looks like a good foundation.  Long range I could see myself upgrading the video card, the CPU cooler and even more fans if that were necessary to maintain necessary temperture.  But for now just want the 6 USB's that are hardwired and the case will handle two more on the front, the excellent support for the Samsung SSD (along with some great threads on installing Windows on the ASRock boards that I have read here), of course the speed fan  control for the case fans and monitoring the CPU.  I will never overclock so see no need for a Z270 but they could have features that I am overlooking.
Appreciate your guidance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 8:26am
Looking like a gamers build.

I'd recommend a full size board with a decent compliment of VRMs if it is.


84? Thumbs UpClap Atta boy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:08am
Originally posted by theBitz theBitz wrote:

About to order a build based on an ASRock 270 board for which there are several that appear to meet my needs, but worry that I am missing something.  Long time computer user but this is a first build at age 84.  I have settled on a i5-7500 processor and a Samsung 960 EVO M.2 250 GB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0x4 which will be the boot disk where Windows 10 Home will reside.  Yes I also will have a 1TB HD and a CD and 550W power supply.  I will start with a Radeon RX 460 video card to open the door to gaming.  I see that possibly in the future as I become more sedentary.  
 
So the ASRock H70M Pro4 Micro ATX board looks like a good foundation.  Long range I could see myself upgrading the video card, the CPU cooler and even more fans if that were necessary to maintain necessary temperture.  But for now just want the 6 USB's that are hardwired and the case will handle two more on the front, the excellent support for the Samsung SSD (along with some great threads on installing Windows on the ASRock boards that I have read here), of course the speed fan  control for the case fans and monitoring the CPU.  I will never overclock so see no need for a Z270 but they could have features that I am overlooking.
Appreciate your guidance


About over clocking, which you said you won't do, but you would need an Intel 'K' model processor as well as a Z270 board in order to over clock the CPU. Your non-K i5-7500 CPU cannot be over clocked on any Z270 board.

Do you care about the quality of the audio source of the board? More expensive boards have better audio chips.

Be careful about the DDR4 memory you purchase, it must be compatible with your processor and board. The Memory QVL list is the best place to find compatible memory. Also notice you cannot over clock the memory speed with an H270 chipset board. Don't bother spending the extra money on DDR4 memory with speeds above 2400 unless you use a Z270 board, and care about high memory speeds.

Any missing features you might need depend upon what you'll be doing with the PC. Such as if you need to use eight storage drives, you'll need more SATA ports and/or more M.2 slots. We cannot know what features you might use, so it's difficult to provide suggestions about features.

You already understand the features needed to use an NVMe SSD as the OS drive. If you wanted to use two or three M.2 SSDs, or a SATA M.2 SSD, you would need to check if the board has the necessary number of M.2 connections, and supports both M.2 NVMe and SATA SSDs. Do not assume something is supported, always check the specifications.

If you wanted to use more than one video card, you would need more PCIe 3.0 x16 slots that are not only of that physical size (x16), but also are each connected to at least eight (x8) PCIe 3.0 lanes from the CPU. The H270M Pro4 does not provide those PCIe 3.0 lane connections. It is fine for a single video card.

Everything you mentioned is basic from a feature standpoint currently. Do you need a wireless network connection, or will you be using a wired network connection?

You mentioned adding fans, and the board's fan speed control (were you referring to a program called Speed Fan?) Fans use two types of speed control, PWM with four pin connectors, and varying DC voltage, with three pin connectors. Using three pin connector fans on some four pin fan mother board fan headers will not allow their speed to be controlled. You must be careful to match your fan types to the board's fan headers if you want the UEFI/BIOS to control fan speeds.


Edited by parsec - 17 Apr 2017 at 10:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:15am
Appreciate if you would be more specific and suggest one and what are VRMs?  The H270 Pro4 (without the M) is full ATX, the next I see is a Z270 and I am sure there will never be any overclocking in my future, but as I pointed I know my needs but am not fully aware of the merits of all the features that are specified.  The case I have selected, a Corsair Carbide 100R Silent Edition can handle either size.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:31am

 

My brief reply was after reading only Wardog's reply - Parsec's response was while I was typing.  I am unfamiliar with this board so hope the thread does not get too confused.  So not sure why Wardog suggests a full ATX board. 

Now Parsec introduces a myriad of points to consider. There will never be over clocking in my future.  My ears have already faded, which may confuse you when you see I chose a "insulated" case, but background noise drives my hearing aids bananas - so the quality of the audio is not a factor.  The memory chosen is Corsair Vengeance LPS 16BG DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) and a friend made that selection.
 
I somewhat understand the lane limitation and do not see a second SSD or need for a second HD.  If and when I become a gamer :) which I suspect, I might see myself upgrading the video card but am sure could get along with using a single card. 
 
I do intent to hard wire this new computer to my router with my old Dell and wife's iPad both wireless. If for some reason I needed WIFI a dongle would do.
 
Hope I have covered what I am hardly expert at  but trying hard.  Appreciate your help. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by theBitz theBitz wrote:

..........and 550W power supply.  I will start with a Radeon RX 460 video card to open the door to gaming.  I see that possibly in the future as I become more sedentary.


Too, I'd spend some on a beefier PSU in the 600w-700w range, as your current choice of the RX 460 eats at 380w as the min req w for it.


If and when you went to a more watt hungry card you would more than likely also at that time need a beefier PSU to power it. Well, depending, but still ......... IMO it's cheaper to begin with a beefier quality PSU rather than down the road during a time of need.

An advantage of of a beefier PSU than needed is it works less and stays cooler while doing so. I commonly refer to the PSU as the foundation of any computer. Anything built upon a weak foundation will cause issues sooner, rather than later.


Link to GPUs and their minimum PSU requirements:
http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 8:51pm
Appreciate Wardog, did not appreciate I was marginal at 550W.  There two EVGA SuperNOVA Gold, a G2-0650-Y180 and a G2-0650-XR8, at same price.   Have not identified the difference that might be important to me. 
As for the full size board, The ASRock H270 Pro4 is a full size vs my original choice of the H270M .   It has more slots although as explained I see no upgrades in the future except for a better video card if I got into gaming heavily.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 12:16am

parsec, had read some weeks ago the thread "How to Install Windows on a PCle SSD" and the detail contained convinced me to buy an Asrock board.  Just now realized it is parsec that is now helping me on my build.  You recommend in those detailed instructions that a USB bootable version of Windows 10 be used rather than the CD.  Cost is only about $30 more to buy so no big deal but the techie in me always wonders why and would appreciate your expanding on that recommendation.  I know I am rambling a bit but have the thread almost memorized so not missing all suggestions offered.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 8:08am

Please do not abandon me, you have helped me get so close to ordering but raised some concerns with my proposed build that I would like to put to bed. I understand the suggestion to go with a bit more power so have increased from 550 to 650W.  My proposed build is now
Corsair Carbide Series 100 R Silent Edition case
i5-7500 processor    initially will use the cooler supplied and check temps
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB(2x8GB) DDR22133(PC417000 ram
Gigabyte Radeon RX 460 4GB
Samsung 960 EVO M.2 250 GB NVMe PCI-Express 3.0x4 as my boot disk
1TB HD for data and backup (I also have another desktop on this same LAN and an external 1.5 TB drive for backup
ASUS DRW DVD Burner
A 650W EVGA SuperNOVA G2 PSU

Right now favoring a ASRiock H270M Pro4 LGA 115 Micro ATX Motherboard
Remember I hardly am a gamer, although this build certainly should qualify as a basic model, but just want this last computer to be fast, for I guess what would be described as business use with some programming, drafting and digital photo playing,  yet want it to handle  some basic games such as Sniper Ghost Warrior (which I own and always get killed) with some limited potential to grow in that area  with an upgrade of a middle tier video card.  Hey, if in these last years I could become sedentary and if so maybe I will spring for a top of the line and give this one to a grandchild.

That said the suggestion has been made that I change from the micro to a full ATX Board and my question is why as I see no future need  for more PSI Express slots, M.2 NVNE slots, more fan or USB headers.  The one SSD is extremely important but all I need is one M2.NVMe slot; but, I am a novice and may be missing something important.  I can live without wireless on the board with this new computer hardwired (Ethernet) to my router. I did check and the fans in the case are three pin but designed to control speed on the second pin and the board indicates it can handle either three or four pins and control as necessary.  I will not be over clocking, understand there is no value in faster DDR4 memory, certainly will never need more storage drives.

Lastly I will have to install windows 10 on the SS and Parsec recommended in a paper on another thread that I should purchase a USB bootable copy rather than the typical CD. Should I even question - cost another $30.

I really would appreciate your helping me put to bed and order.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 10:28am
Since I don't know about your level of expertise dealing with the creation of an operating PC from parts, I'll try not to be too technical, but that is unavoidable. Given that, I don't know if you appreciate the difficulty of the task you are taking on.

The problem with attempting to explain things to a new builder is the level of complexity of the concepts involved. Installing Windows on an NVMe SSD like the 960 EVO is a perfect example of that. I could go on for pages and provide only a semi-complete description of the "whys" things are done. A deep understanding is not necessary to perform the process.

Even though I'll be skipping details and including some that you may not understand, the bottom line is really all that you need. I'll include terminology and concepts even in my abrupt explanation that you may not understand. Labeling yourself as a new builder may not adequately describe your level of experience working with things like a mother board's UEFI/BIOS user interface, which I must discuss and you must now use. Have you ever done that with any PC's you've owned?

Have you ever installed Windows from an installation disk, to a storage drive?

Have you ever installed driver software for the hardware on, and the hardware used with a mother board?

Yes I use USB flash drives to install Windows. Have I ever purchased a Microsoft Windows 10 USB installation media? No, nor have I ever used one. I never said in my guide that anyone should purchase the Microsoft USB installation media.

I create my own Windows installation media using a blank USB flash drive purchased by itself, and a Windows 10 ISO file, downloaded from Microsoft using their Windows 10 Media Creation Tool. I then use a Windows 10 license key provided with a Windows 10 OEM installation disk to activate Windows 10. I'm not suggesting you do it his way, but just as an example of how it can be done. Does any of this make any sense to you?

Sorry, simply asking as I have no idea of the extent of your experience in these things.

Instead of a full description of what needs to be done, I'll go with one example of what you'll be dealing with just starting to install Windows 10.

This is a bottom line instruction about using any Windows 10 installation media, disk or USB flash drive, with an NVMe SSD like a 960 EVO:

In the UEFI/BIOS user interface, Boot screen, in the Boot Order option, you must select the correct entry for the Windows 10 installation media, which will look like this:

"UEFI: <windows installation media device name>", where installation media device name is the name of the optical disk drive containing the Windows 10 disk, or bootable USB flash drive with the Windows 10 ISO image.

Is that something you could do, and does it make at least some sense? I'd really like to know before I proceed with you.

I'm not concerned with the hardware you have chosen, it is fine for your uses, but I am concerned about you ability to work with it. That is simply based upon my ignorance of your experience with working with PCs at the hardware level.

To clear up something that was started earlier, and never answered:

VRM is an acronym for Voltage Regulator Module. That is a major component of any mother board. It creates the voltage/power for the CPU, from the PC's 12V power supply line. The VRM "stage" or "section" is composed of multiple transistors, inductors, capacitors, and one or more control chips.

When over clocking a processor, the strength of the VRM stage is more important than if you don't. An over clocked processor uses more power (Watts) than one that isn't, so the VRM stage must be more robust in order to withstand the extra stress of higher power delivery.

Since you are not over clocking your CPU, you simply need a board with a decent VRM stage. The board you selected is fine in that regard, since it can be used for mild over clocking. It is more than adequate for your i5-7500. A "decent... VRM" just means not the likes found on very cheap mother boards.

From your description of the PC's usage and possible future update plans, you aren't missing anything important. Personally, I am more concerned with you being able to complete a working PC. Purchasing the hardware is just the first step.

I'm having trouble tracking down the EVGA power supplies you listed, the model numbers seem incomplete. A Google search on those numbers returns nothing specific. An example of a full model name is, EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G1 120-G1-0650-XR 80+. The differences in whatever two models you listed could be in their efficiency of power conversion. Prices are not necessarily logical in determining what is newer, older, better, etc.

One comment about something you wrote, you will need more fans for a PC used for gaming. Not immediately to get the PC running, but most likely in the near future. The two provided with your PC case will not adequately ventilate it during long gaming sessions. Also, "quiet" PC cases somewhat sacrifice cooling ability for quietness, quiet and great cooling are conflicting compromises. Most people that just use a pre-built PC don't know it is operating much hotter than necessary, although additional cooling may buy you nothing except longevity of the components.

Keep in mind you are talking with hard core PC builders here, and what will be completely fine for most people will never be good enough for us.
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