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    Posted: 07 May 2017 at 9:47am
Completed new build early this week and having fan speed problems.
  Board H270M Pro4  BIOS flashed with latest 4/2017 2
  PSU EVGA SuperNOVA 650W, processor an i5
  Processor i5-7500 with stock Intel CPU Fan
  RAM GSkill RipJaws 16GB (2 x 8GB)
 
The Corsair Carbide Series 100 R Silent Edition case I purchased has two, three pin fans which may optionally be attached to a three speed control in the case or to the motherboard. The motherboard advertises that that the two case fan connectors (4 pin) have Smart Speed Control clarified with an asterisk, that they can auto detect if a 3 pin or 4 pin fan is in use.  I have interpreted that to mean if a three pin fan, they control speed with the voltage on pin 2 and if a four pin speed is controlled by the 4th pin using PWM  

That said UEFI indicates the CPU fan is turning at 2200 plus and the two case fans at 1100 plus but jumping every 10 to 15 seconds to 2200 plus for a second or two and then back. Worse than that there is no effect changing from Standard to Full Speed in the UEFI.  A-Tuning indicates the 100% speed for the case fans is approximately 1500 and that at 50 degrees C where the CPU is idling the speed should be 60% of 3100 max (A-Tuning test) but it is not. Now I have explored letting A-Tuning control the speeds and manually controlling with the build in options in the UEFI and noting seems to change.  At this point I would simply like to confirm that my basic assumptions that this board should control the speed of the fans whether three or four pins and if so I am obviously missing something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by theBitz theBitz wrote:

Completed new build early this week and having fan speed problems.
  Board H270M Pro4  BIOS flashed with latest 4/2017 2
  PSU EVGA SuperNOVA 650W, processor an i5
  Processor i5-7500 with stock Intel CPU Fan
  RAM GSkill RipJaws 16GB (2 x 8GB)
 
The Corsair Carbide Series 100 R Silent Edition case I purchased has two, three pin fans which may optionally be attached to a three speed control in the case or to the motherboard. The motherboard advertises that that the two case fan connectors (4 pin) have Smart Speed Control clarified with an asterisk, that they can auto detect if a 3 pin or 4 pin fan is in use.  I have interpreted that to mean if a three pin fan, they control speed with the voltage on pin 2 and if a four pin speed is controlled by the 4th pin using PWM  

That said UEFI indicates the CPU fan is turning at 2200 plus and the two case fans at 1100 plus but jumping every 10 to 15 seconds to 2200 plus for a second or two and then back. Worse than that there is no effect changing from Standard to Full Speed in the UEFI.  A-Tuning indicates the 100% speed for the case fans is approximately 1500 and that at 50 degrees C where the CPU is idling the speed should be 60% of 3100 max (A-Tuning test) but it is not. Now I have explored letting A-Tuning control the speeds and manually controlling with the build in options in the UEFI and noting seems to change.  At this point I would simply like to confirm that my basic assumptions that this board should control the speed of the fans whether three or four pins and if so I am obviously missing something.


I'm not sure I completely understand the behavior of your various fans, so questions for you.

First the Intel stock CPU cooler. I assume it is connected to the CPU_FAN1 connector at the top of the board. If you run the FAN Test in A-Tuning on the CPU_FAN1 selection, do you get a full range (10% - 100%) of fan speeds? Meaning at 10% the RPM is not zero and the speed is below 1,000 RPM?

When the Intel Skylake processors were released (I know you have a Kaby Lake CPU) we discovered that certain models of the Intel stock CPU cooler (Delta on the fan's label) were defective. Their minimum RPM was ~1,000 RPM at ~50% and 0 RPM below that. ASRock even put a special option in the HW Monitoring screen for those Intel stock CPU cooler, if it operated erratically like this. We had many reports of bad Intel CPU coolers at that time, but so far none for Kaby Lake. I'm wondering if you have one of the bad Intel CPU coolers.

Next the two Corsair case fans. You have them connected directly to the mother board CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 connectors, right? Do those two fans have standard three pin fan connections? I ask because some Corsair case fans in the past have had proprietary connectors for the built in fan speed controller.

If you run the FAN Test in A-Tuning on the CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 connectors, with the Corsair fans, do you get a full range of fan speeds, from 10% to 100%? If you do then the fans are being controlled correctly by those two fan connectors.

Did you try using the Fan-Tastic Tuning option in the H/W Monitoring screen to create custom fan speed curves for your fans? All PC fans are different, there are no standards for minimum or maximum speed, voltage or PWM signal level for a specific RPM, starting voltage, and power usage. A fan's speed is not linear to the applied voltage or PWM signal level as shown in A-Tuning, the 50% level may not be exactly 1/2 the RPM of the maximum speed. Fan minimum and maximum speed specs are normally +/- 20% of the specified RPM.

That means the pre-defined fan speed profiles will not match the characteristics of all fans. It's pure luck if they do. There are 120mm fans whose maximum speed is 800 RPM and others that are 4,000 RPM. I never use the built in profiles. Creating a custom profile takes some time and testing but is well worth it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2017 at 11:02pm

I?ll annotate Persec's  questions:

First the Intel stock CPU cooler. I assume it is connected to the CPU_FAN1 connector at the top of the board. If you run the FAN Test in A-Tuning on the CPU_FAN1 selection, do you get a full range (10% - 100%) of fan speeds? Meaning at 10% the RPM is not zero and the speed is below 1,000 RPM?

 Yes, connected to the CPU_FAN1, a four pin female connected to a four pin female.  The FAN-Tastic tests show range from ~1000 rpm at 10% to ~3100 at 100% and this has been reproducible.  However System Info shows the temp around 30C and yesterday it was running about 2200 reasonable, but today saw it at 3200, then later 2200 and now 1050 all at Standard.  So the curves appear reproducible but not the running speed.  I did set to Full Speed in the BIOS and it jumped to 3200 after I rebooted and back to 2200 when I again changed and rebooted.   

When the Intel Skylake processors were released (I know you have a Kaby Lake CPU) we discovered that certain models of the Intel stock CPU cooler (Delta on the fan's label) were defective. 

To many peculiar data points here to draw any conclusion yet.


Next the two Corsair case fans. You have them connected directly to the mother board CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 connectors, right? Do those two fans have standard three pin fan connections? I ask because some Corsair case fans in the past have had proprietary connectors for the built in fan speed controller.

Definitely connected to CHA_FAN1 and 2.  Apparently they have changed their connectors.  The connectors are three pin and with a slot in their side so that they can only connect to the board?s four pin female covering pins 1 to 3 which has a projection to assure.  They come with an option to connect to a three speed control switch on the back of the case getting their power from an SATA power connection and therefore I know they are controllable by varying voltage on I assume pin 2.  My H270M board is supposed to do the same as I read the specs.

If you run the FAN Test in A-Tuning on the CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 connectors, with the Corsair fans, do you get a full range of fan speeds, from 10% to 100%? If you do then the fans are being controlled correctly by those two fan connectors.

Here is where the problem gets out of hand.  The FAN tests are not consistent.  Run once yesterday and thought they appeared reasonable but today have repeatedly run tests on each fan.  Max speeds have been mostly around 1500 with one 1700 but 10% has run from 0 to 7000 and other low percentages have shown spurious large numbers has high as 6000.  Very screwy and not reproducible.  I would not even believe my memory except I have been taking screen captures.

I?ll leave this response at that admitting I have not attempted to adjust the curves using A-Tuning.  However I did try modifying using the BIOS and set to Full when I was checking out the CPU Fan.  However for the case fans there was not change ??they stayed at their 1100/1200 reading popping to 2200 for a few seconds every 10 to 15 seconds.  I would like to do some testing under A-Tuning but appreciate clarification when changes made here apply, i.e what does ?Auto apply when program starts, ??i.e. an option at the bottom of the FAN-Tastic Tuning window ??if you start and stop the program or upon a reboot?

For the record I am loving this computer just for its speed in rebooting and handling the loading of the everyday programs I use.  Once I get this problem settled will have to quantify this judgment. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2017 at 12:04am
Originally posted by theBitz theBitz wrote:

I?�ll annotate Persec's  questions:

First the Intel stock CPU cooler. I assume it is connected to the CPU_FAN1 connector at the top of the board. If you run the FAN Test in A-Tuning on the CPU_FAN1 selection, do you get a full range (10% - 100%) of fan speeds? Meaning at 10% the RPM is not zero and the speed is below 1,000 RPM?

 Yes, connected to the CPU_FAN1, a four pin female connected to a four pin female.  The FAN-Tastic tests show range from ~1000 rpm at 10% to ~3100 at 100% and this has been reproducible.  However System Info shows the temp around 30C and yesterday it was running about 2200 reasonable, but today saw it at 3200, then later 2200 and now 1050 all at Standard.  So the curves appear reproducible but not the running speed.  I did set to Full Speed in the BIOS and it jumped to 3200 after I rebooted and back to 2200 when I again changed and rebooted.   

When the Intel Skylake processors were released (I know you have a Kaby Lake CPU) we discovered that certain models of the Intel stock CPU cooler (Delta on the fan's label) were defective. 

To many peculiar data points here to draw any conclusion yet.


Next the two Corsair case fans. You have them connected directly to the mother board CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 connectors, right? Do those two fans have standard three pin fan connections? I ask because some Corsair case fans in the past have had proprietary connectors for the built in fan speed controller.

Definitely connected to CHA_FAN1 and 2.  Apparently they have changed their connectors.  The connectors are three pin and with a slot in their side so that they can only connect to the board?�s four pin female covering pins 1 to 3 which has a projection to assure.  They come with an option to connect to a three speed control switch on the back of the case getting their power from an SATA power connection and therefore I know they are controllable by varying voltage on I assume pin 2.  My H270M board is supposed to do the same as I read the specs.

If you run the FAN Test in A-Tuning on the CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 connectors, with the Corsair fans, do you get a full range of fan speeds, from 10% to 100%? If you do then the fans are being controlled correctly by those two fan connectors.

Here is where the problem gets out of hand.  The FAN tests are not consistent.  Run once yesterday and thought they appeared reasonable but today have repeatedly run tests on each fan.  Max speeds have been mostly around 1500 with one 1700 but 10% has run from 0 to 7000 and other low percentages have shown spurious large numbers has high as 6000.  Very screwy and not reproducible.  I would not even believe my memory except I have been taking screen captures.

I?�ll leave this response at that admitting I have not attempted to adjust the curves using A-Tuning.  However I did try modifying using the BIOS and set to Full when I was checking out the CPU Fan.  However for the case fans there was not change ??they stayed at their 1100/1200 reading popping to 2200 for a few seconds every 10 to 15 seconds.  I would like to do some testing under A-Tuning but appreciate clarification when changes made here apply, i.e what does ?�Auto apply when program starts, ??i.e. an option at the bottom of the FAN-Tastic Tuning window ??if you start and stop the program or upon a reboot?

For the record I am loving this computer just for its speed in rebooting and handling the loading of the everyday programs I use.  Once I get this problem settled will have to quantify this judgment. 

 



The Auto Apply setting of A-Tuning set to On/Enabled may be the problem.

The Auto Apply setting causes all the setting in A-Tuning to be applied when the PC boots. The fan curves in A-Tuning will be applied at that time, overriding the settings in the UEFI. But the A-Tuning settings do not change the UEFI/BIOS settings.

The fan speeds changing like that is strange. Do you have more than one PC monitoring program running at the same time? Are you using anything like Corsair Link software?
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No, I have no other PC monitoring programs running.

But remain confused as the inter-relationship between A-Tuning and the BIOS/UEFI - just not understanding "But the A-Tuning setting do not change the UEFI/BIOS settings."  So let me state that in a different manor.   If I  check the box there to Auto apply at startup that changes the curve as you indicate but does it overwrite the default UEFI curves for STANDARD as an example or is it a temporary fix, i.e. if A-Tuning is uninstalled the UEFI will revert to its default next boot.

I have to get off this computer and do some Honey-Does but I did run the curves again and made sure the Auto apply was unchecked and also hit the Cancel button after each.  There is another question what does the Apply button do different than the check box.  By the way each of the curves run for the case fans were totally crazy - almost random numbers from 10% to 100% between 500 and 7000 - you would have to do a least square fit to even see if there was a curve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theBitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2017 at 8:50am
Early problem was the erratic curves created with the ?Start FAN Test??in A-Tuning for the CPU and Chassis fans (the occasional speed way off the curve) reinforced by watching blips in the speeds of the chassis fans in either A-Tuning or the UEFi.  I was therefore concerned that I had misunderstood information that the motherboard could handle speed control of fans whether three or four pin.  This was amplified when I set the fans to Full Speed in the UEFI on the Basic screen and only the CPU responded with no change on subsequently checking with A-Tuning after Save and Exist.

However all of this is a product of me not realizing there are multiple ways to change fan speeds, A-Tuning, a Windows program which had to be downloaded from the APP shop  and described briefly in Chapter 3.2 of the H270M motherboard manual, and on the EZMode  screen with the option of Silent, Standard, Performance, and Full Speed and a third, under Chapter 4.8 "Hardware Health Event Monitoring"  with selection of Fan-Tastic Tuning- with almost identical options and screens as the same feature in stand alone A-Tuning with the same name on its tab.  They all are integrated but the manual is not about to divulge.

So what I have learned by trial and error is that I can control  my three pin chassis fans by modifying the curves in either the UEFI or A-Tuning.  Custom curves generated in A-Tuning are transferred or even use the same code fields in the UEFI and visa versa.  Maybe someday I will figure out the relationship between the suggested curves stored in the UEFI as Silent, Standard, Performance and Full Speed and those in A-Tuning called Performance Mode, Standard and Power Saver.  I still get period rpm blips (about double the value) for the two chassis fans and must assume this is a product of the signal sent from those two fans since I do not see it with the CPU (and both use the same principle sending down the third pin). 

Some preliminary data suggests that the stock fan supplied with my i5-7500 is marginal at best but I have yet to push the chip and I went into this knowing that would be an eventual upgrade.

I am disappointed there is no detail on the code logic of these two implementations of what is obviously the same basic code but with slightly different external interfaces but not worth the hours of trial and error to right a manual update.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2017 at 10:10am
Originally posted by theBitz theBitz wrote:

No, I have no other PC monitoring programs running.

But remain confused as the inter-relationship between A-Tuning and the BIOS/UEFI - just not understanding "But the A-Tuning setting do not change the UEFI/BIOS settings."  So let me state that in a different manor.   If I  check the box there to Auto apply at startup that changes the curve as you indicate but does it overwrite the default UEFI curves for STANDARD as an example or is it a temporary fix, i.e. if A-Tuning is uninstalled the UEFI will revert to its default next boot.

I have to get off this computer and do some Honey-Does but I did run the curves again and made sure the Auto apply was unchecked and also hit the Cancel button after each.  There is another question what does the Apply button do different than the check box.  By the way each of the curves run for the case fans were totally crazy - almost random numbers from 10% to 100% between 500 and 7000 - you would have to do a least square fit to even see if there was a curve.


First, you cannot permanently change/modify the predefined fan speed curves, Standard, Silent, Performance or Full Speed, that are defined in the UEFI.

You can modify the predefined fan speed curves in A-Tuning, FAN_Tastic Tuning. The modifications to the predefined fan speed curves are saved/stored within A-Tuning. As stated above, that does not change the predefined fan speed curves in the UEFI.

As soon as the A-Tuning program is run, either automatically (checking Auto run... in Settings) , or manually by you, the modifications to the predefined fan speed curves will be applied. They remain that way if you close A-Tuning.

 So you can modify the predefined fan speed curves via A-Tuning within Windows, which are saved and applied as soon as A-Tuning is run. That's the key here, A-Tuning must be run to apply your modifications to the fan curves.

The Apply button only applies the changes to the fan speed curve for the fan header chosen within A-Tuning, in the small box above the fan speed curve graph. You could have Standard selected for all the fan headers, but the modifications you do in A-Tuning are applied only on a fan connector basis. This is much more flexible than forcing all the fan connectors to use one fan speed curve.

The Auto button simply causes A-Tuning to run when Windows boots, just like any Auto-run Windows program.

The last sentence starting with "By the way...", I don't understand.

Originally posted by theBitz theBitz wrote:

Early problem was the erratic curves created with the ?�Start FAN Test??in A-Tuning for the CPU and Chassis fans (the occasional speed way off the curve) reinforced by watching blips in the speeds of the chassis fans in either A-Tuning or the UEFi.  I was therefore concerned that I had misunderstood information that the motherboard could handle speed control of fans whether three or four pin.  This was amplified when I set the fans to Full Speed in the UEFI on the Basic screen and only the CPU responded with no change on subsequently checking with A-Tuning after Save and Exist.

However all of this is a product of me not realizing there are multiple ways to change fan speeds, A-Tuning, a Windows program which had to be downloaded from the APP shop  and described briefly in Chapter 3.2 of the H270M motherboard manual, and on the EZMode  screen with the option of Silent, Standard, Performance, and Full Speed and a third, under Chapter 4.8 "Hardware Health Event Monitoring"  with selection of Fan-Tastic Tuning- with almost identical options and screens as the same feature in stand alone A-Tuning with the same name on its tab.  They all are integrated but the manual is not about to divulge.

So what I have learned by trial and error is that I can control  my three pin chassis fans by modifying the curves in either the UEFI or A-Tuning.  Custom curves generated in A-Tuning are transferred or even use the same code fields in the UEFI and visa versa.  Maybe someday I will figure out the relationship between the suggested curves stored in the UEFI as Silent, Standard, Performance and Full Speed and those in A-Tuning called Performance Mode, Standard and Power Saver.  I still get period rpm blips (about double the value) for the two chassis fans and must assume this is a product of the signal sent from those two fans since I do not see it with the CPU (and both use the same principle sending down the third pin). 

Some preliminary data suggests that the stock fan supplied with my i5-7500 is marginal at best but I have yet to push the chip and I went into this knowing that would be an eventual upgrade.

I am disappointed there is no detail on the code logic of these two implementations of what is obviously the same basic code but with slightly different external interfaces but not worth the hours of trial and error to right a manual update.




The Operation Mode screen in A-Tuning has nothing to do with fan speed control. It's the same thing as the Windows Power Plans, applying various settings to the Power Plan options. I assume you are using the use of the words "Performance" and "Standard" in the Operation Mode screen, with their use to describe a fan speed profile/curve.


Edited by parsec - 10 May 2017 at 10:12am
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You have definitely clarified my understanding of the A-Tuning FAN-Tastic behavior.  I hope my following comments will confirm that understanding.  I must suspect you achieved that knowledge by a lot of trial and error unless there is better documentation out there that I just have not uncovered.

If you modify the curves in the UEFI instead of using the stand alone Windows software A-Tuning it does change the curves in the A0Tuning - I have not checked but assume that goes either way.  Of course that assumes as you indicated that if you change in A-Tuning you must check Auto run... in Settings or manually start.  Which brings we to "why have that option in  A-Tuning?".  The unique feature of A-Tuning is determining the shape of the curves for your fans from 10 to 100% power and of course the ability to monitor temperatures and speeds while in Windows.

I did catch you comment about the Operational Modes in A-Tuning (Performance Mode, Standard Mode and Power Saving) offered .  You did point out that these have nothing to do with fan speed control and are related the Windows Power Plans - so I will simply leave in Standard and forget about. Interesting that the manual simply points out they exist, no explanation of what they do but am familiar and do use the Windows Power setting to control power.

I am now in control of my fan speeds, both three pin chassis and four pin CPU and will adjust with experience as I push the processor and video card.  I have yet to load a game :)

As to my "By the way..." that referenced the peculiar data obtained  using A-Tuning's Start FAN Test to define he power vs speed curve for each of the fans.  On several repeated tests I did not see wha I suspect are fairly linear plots (although I did not plot) of power vs speed but values far off the curve - only for the two fans, not the CPU.  For example and Fan 10%-0 rpm, 20%- 5586 rpm, 30% 560 rpm, 40%-733 rpm and reasonable up to 100%-1406 rpm.  This did not just happen once but was repeatable but not down to the specific fan power.   I also indicated that I saw periodic extreme jumps in speed while just monitoring a chassis fan speed whether using the UEFI or A-Tuning.  I saw this only the first day before I had changed any of the curves and am not seeing that behavior anymore - but mind you I do not spend my entire day watching :).  At this point this is a moot point because I appear to have good fan control.

I do have to again express my appreciation for you and the other active members of this forum sharing your expertise - there are some people  good in this world.
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