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PCIe2 slot not working on Z77 Extreme4

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bvl79 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 May 2017 at 2:47am
Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, but owned the rig in my signature for about four years now.  I know this is an older board and I might be SOL, but wanted to see if anyone has any thoughts or experienced the issue I'm having.  One interesting thing I should note, that may or may not be related, is that for some reason, it often takes several boot attempts for the machine to post.  I have tried two different graphics cards and two different power supplies, and there is no difference.  Once it comes on, though, it is completely stable.  I've seen some posts from other users who have also experienced this, but have never been able to pinpoint the reason for this.  

Anyway, that's annoying, but other than that, it hasn't given me too much headache.  Moving on to the next issue, though...

I upgraded the graphics card over Christmas from a Radeon HD7850 to the Nvidia GTX1070.  My game of choice lately is Planet Coaster, which is proving to be both graphic and CPU intensive.  I originally installed the card in the PCIe3 slot (the 2nd of the two full size PCIe slots) because my case didn't have enough room in the first one.  I wasn't aware that placing the card in this slot was any different than using the PCIe1 slot, but then the game started slowing down quite a bit on larger parks, and the developers suggested checking to make sure the card was in the correct slot.  Sure enough, I found out that the PCIe2 slot only runs at 8x since it's meant to share the first slot in SLI mode.  

So, I had another case lying around with more room, and transferred everything over, moving the Nvidia card to the PCIe1 slot to achieve the whole 16x speed.  However, once I got the machine to finally post, windows did not detect the 1070 at all, just the Intel onboard video.  What's weird about this was the monitor was plugged into the display port of the 1070, so the card had to be working in some capacity, but it wasn't seen.  I tried clearing the CMOS and disabling the multi-display setting in the BIOS (the closest to disabling the onboard video that I read), and when the machine posted, it didn't list any display settings under device manager, but the screen was still displaying properly.  Nvidia control panel would not open because it reported no Nvidia graphics card detected in the system, yet I was viewing this USING the input from that very card.  I then moved the 1070  back to the PCIe2 slot, and it appeared just fine as before.  

SO....I'm not sure what to do from here.  I have been having the itch to upgrade, but from what I've read, there is not that much to be gained going from my rig to an updated platform, even though the technology is 5yrs old.  And, by most accounts, Planet Coaster is not a super optimized game, and doesn't run that much better on newer vs older boards, but apparently the speed of the graphics card is a factor.  So, I feel like if I can magically get the PCIe1 slot to work, it will improve significantly.  I just hate to spend several hundred dollars if I can avoid it, since I am happy with the machine otherwise.  

Your thoughts and feedback are appreciated.  Again, I have cleared CMOS and checked more than one power supply, so I don't think those are the culprits.  Thanks very much in advance.    
AsRock Z77 EXTREME4

i5-3570K w/ Cooler Master Hyper 212

16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHZ

Samsung MZ-7TD250BW 840 SSD 250GB

Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD

GIGABYTE GTX1070

Windows 10 Home OE
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clubfoot View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 3:09am
I'm going to make the assumption that you did not use a video driver removal utility like DDU to clean out the old AMD video card drivers.
https://www.wagnardsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=792
If you haven't done a clean fresh install of windows in awhile now would be a good time.
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bvl79 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bvl79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 3:22am
A Fair assumption Tongue

 Thank you for the suggestion and taking the time to reply.  A Windows driver issue still wouldn't explain why the BIOS wouldn't detect the card in the first slot, though.  In fact, the system browser button in the UEFI crashes when I press it with the card installed in that slot.  Also, if it was a driver issue, I'm not sure why Windows has no trouble identifying it in the PCIe3 slot. 

I have read that the CPU controls the lanes for the PCIe2 slot, and the mobo for the PCIe3.  Some people have reported that bent pins could be the culprit.  I think it's time to bite the bullet and build a new system.  
AsRock Z77 EXTREME4

i5-3570K w/ Cooler Master Hyper 212

16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHZ

Samsung MZ-7TD250BW 840 SSD 250GB

Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD

GIGABYTE GTX1070

Windows 10 Home OE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 5:03am
  I tried clearing the CMOS and disabling the multi-display setting in the BIOS (the closest to disabling the onboard video that I read), and when the machine posted, it didn't list any display settings under device manager, but the screen was still displaying properly.  Nvidia control panel would not open because it reported no Nvidia graphics card detected in the system, yet I was viewing this USING the input from that very card.  I then moved the 1070  back to the PCIe2 slot, and it appeared just fine as before. 

I wrongfully thought you had resolved the issue by moving the video card and resetting the UEFI based on your statement above.

What power supply are you using?
Did you have the Radeon in PCIe2 previously?
If yes,...ensure you have all the power connectors plugged into the 1070 video card.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bvl79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 6:38am
Oh, I'm sorry for the confusion.  

The card works and is detected appropriately in the PCIe3 slot, but only at 8x speed (per the board design).  

The card does not work in the PCIe2 slot that it needs to be placed in order to receive 16x speed.  

The power supply is Corsair system builder 600w.  Does the the PCIe2 slot use more power than the PCIe3 slot?  That would be the only reason I would see it working in one slot, but not the other, if it isn't a mobo / CPU issue?  

Thanks again, -Brian
AsRock Z77 EXTREME4

i5-3570K w/ Cooler Master Hyper 212

16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHZ

Samsung MZ-7TD250BW 840 SSD 250GB

Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD

GIGABYTE GTX1070

Windows 10 Home OE
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 9:11am
If the card works in the PCIe3 slot it's not the card so must be the slot. inspect it for debris and/or bent pins,...with power off, of course. Smile  Also check to make sure there is nothing like SATA cables preventing the card from fully seating.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 10:51am
Your descriptions are confusing, because of the way you are referring to the PCIe slots. That has changed from your first post, to later posts, and is inconsistent.

The only two physical PCIe x 16 slots your board has are labeled PCIE2 and PCIE3. You apparently called the PCIE2 slot PCIE1 in your first post. The PCIE1 slot is x1 physically and electrically.

The PCIE2 slot is x16 electrically, and the PCIE3 slot is x8 electrically. Meaning those are the number of PCIe lanes they are connected to from the CPU. You said in a later post that the PCIE3 slot is connected to the mother board (that would really be the Z77 chipset's PCIe 2.0 lanes) but that is not correct. Both of those PCIe slots are connected to the CPU's 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes, shared between the two slots if two video cards are used.

It's clear that the PCIE2 slot, which you did not use until recently, has a problem. Be sure nothing is shorting the contacts to the PCIE2 slot underneath the mother board. As said above, be sure the video card is fully seated in the PCIE2 slot. Do you move the locking clip into place on the PCIe slots?

Dirt and dust in the PCIE2 slot could also cause a bad connection in that slot, as also said above. If the PCIE2 slot was empty for four years before you began using it, then dust build up in that slot is a given. Unless you first cleaned it with compressed gas and carefully wiped the contacts in the slot.

The video card not being detected in the UEFI or in Windows, and System Browser crashing when the video card is in the PCIE2 slot means the video card is not fully connecting to all the connections in that slot, or there is some other problem with the PCIe lane connections to that slot.

Bent pins in the CPU socket might also be the problem. But it would be quite a coincidence that the only pins that were bent are for the PCIe electrical lanes, and that those lanes are not connected to the PCIE3 slot, and only to the PCIE2 slot.

There is no difference in power delivery via the PCIe slots if the slot is x1, x4, x8, or x16. That is only the number of PCIe electrical data lanes connected to each slot from the CPU. Power connections are only found in the part of the slot on the far left, to the left of the key notch in the slot.

It is generally known that the difference in performance between all but the very best video cards, connected to a PCIe 3.0 x8 or PCIe 3.0 x16 electrical connection is very small, or none at all.

The issue with the board failing to POST could be diagnosed by checking your board's Dr Debug display for the POST code displayed when POST stops. Do you know what code that is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2017 at 11:51am
Try replacing the CMOS batttery, clearing the CMOS before reseating the new battery.


Also, considering it is ~4yrs old now, I might flash it to the latest BIOS, a BETA, 2.90M. I don't usually suggest BETAs but 2.90M is two years newer than the last released production BIOS.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z77%20Extreme4/?cat=Beta

Make sure your computer is stable before flashing !!














Edited by wardog - 13 May 2017 at 11:51am
Nothing here. Move on!

16,441 - https://www.3dmark.com/fs/13030306
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bvl79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2017 at 7:50am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Your descriptions are confusing, because of the way you are referring to the PCIe slots. That has changed from your first post, to later posts, and is inconsistent.

The only two physical PCIe x 16 slots your board has are labeled PCIE2 and PCIE3. You apparently called the PCIE2 slot PCIE1 in your first post. The PCIE1 slot is x1 physically and electrically.

The PCIE2 slot is x16 electrically, and the PCIE3 slot is x8 electrically. Meaning those are the number of PCIe lanes they are connected to from the CPU. You said in a later post that the PCIE3 slot is connected to the mother board (that would really be the Z77 chipset's PCIe 2.0 lanes) but that is not correct. Both of those PCIe slots are connected to the CPU's 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes, shared between the two slots if two video cards are used.

It's clear that the PCIE2 slot, which you did not use until recently, has a problem. Be sure nothing is shorting the contacts to the PCIE2 slot underneath the mother board. As said above, be sure the video card is fully seated in the PCIE2 slot. Do you move the locking clip into place on the PCIe slots?

Dirt and dust in the PCIE2 slot could also cause a bad connection in that slot, as also said above. If the PCIE2 slot was empty for four years before you began using it, then dust build up in that slot is a given. Unless you first cleaned it with compressed gas and carefully wiped the contacts in the slot.

The video card not being detected in the UEFI or in Windows, and System Browser crashing when the video card is in the PCIE2 slot means the video card is not fully connecting to all the connections in that slot, or there is some other problem with the PCIe lane connections to that slot.

Bent pins in the CPU socket might also be the problem. But it would be quite a coincidence that the only pins that were bent are for the PCIe electrical lanes, and that those lanes are not connected to the PCIE3 slot, and only to the PCIE2 slot.

There is no difference in power delivery via the PCIe slots if the slot is x1, x4, x8, or x16. That is only the number of PCIe electrical data lanes connected to each slot from the CPU. Power connections are only found in the part of the slot on the far left, to the left of the key notch in the slot.

It is generally known that the difference in performance between all but the very best video cards, connected to a PCIe 3.0 x8 or PCIe 3.0 x16 electrical connection is very small, or none at all.

The issue with the board failing to POST could be diagnosed by checking your board's Dr Debug display for the POST code displayed when POST stops. Do you know what code that is?

Thank you to all the replies, and particularly for this in depth, helpful post.  And you are correct about my inconsistencies in naming of the slots, so I'll stick with layman's terms.  Of the two slots that fit a full size PCIe graphics card, only the bottom one works with my new GTX 1070, not the one closest to the processor which provides 16x speed.  

You may be correct on whether there will be significant difference between running the card at 8x vs 16x, but I'm hoping to experience improvement per the discussion here for Planet Coaster.  

I thought I was making progress, but I'm more confused than before after experimenting today.  

First off, I flashed the BIOS from 2.7 to the latest 2.9 (non-beta) release.  

I wasn't familiar with the Dr Debug system, so thank you for pointing that out to me.  The code it gives when the system fails to post is 10, which points to a RAM issue.  Also, when I would get the system to boot (which I still have no idea why it decides to finally work) and enter the UEFI, clicking on "system browser" would freeze the system with "D5" in the lower right corner, which apparently also points to a RAM issue.  

I have four sticks of 4GB Corsair Vengeance RAM.  I tried multiple combinations, and found that using only one pair in RAM slots A2 & B2 would not freeze the system when clicking system browser, and showed an Nvidia card in the PCIe2 slot.  Progress!  

But, the 10 debug code still appeared several times before booting, and windows still fails to detect the card once the system boots with it in the PCIe2 slot.  

I tried placing my old HD7850 in the PCIe2 slot, and windows detected it without problem.  So it seems the slot is ok.    

I also tried an Antec Earthwatts 500w power supply with no change in error codes or detection.  I then switched back to the Corsair 600w.  I suppose it's possible that my system uses more than 600w, but I do not have another supply to test.  I am still leaning towards something funky going on with the motherboard, because I've always had post issues, and if there are RAM issues, they have never affected the system to my knowledge once it has booted successfully.  It is stable for days with hours of game play.  

Such a bizarre problem.  Thanks again for this board's help.   
AsRock Z77 EXTREME4

i5-3570K w/ Cooler Master Hyper 212

16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600MHZ

Samsung MZ-7TD250BW 840 SSD 250GB

Seagate Barracuda 3TB HDD

GIGABYTE GTX1070

Windows 10 Home OE
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