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X370 Taichi VCore nasty spikes

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zlobster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 7:32pm
Thanks everyone for the help!

When I set the VCore manually I got rid of the spikes, PC now runs cooler and is again stable as rock. \m/ Do you see what I did there? Big smile

With manual voltage I see CPB & XFR are still kicking in, which I think it's strange because I've set VCore to 1.22V. Under heavy load it droops to 1.19V. Funny thing is PC runs well even with 1.19V VCore; under load it just droops even lower. Odd, no?

Custom P-states also work well. I'll tune them better after I find my 1700X limit.

Finally, I can't say the problem is gone. For now I've just worked it around with your help. @Moderators - you can close the thread if you wish, but please forward this to ASRock engineering teams. To me it's still a problem. When one buys a car, one doesn't tune the gas pedal manually, just because it gives too much fuel. That's factory's job!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Onox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by zlobster zlobster wrote:

Thanks everyone for the help!

When I set the VCore manually I got rid of the spikes, PC now runs cooler and is again stable as rock. \m/ Do you see what I did there? Big smile

With manual voltage I see CPB & XFR are still kicking in, which I think it's strange because I've set VCore to 1.22V. Under heavy load it droops to 1.19V. Funny thing is PC runs well even with 1.19V VCore; under load it just droops even lower. Odd, no?

Custom P-states also work well. I'll tune them better after I find my 1700X limit.

Finally, I can't say the problem is gone. For now I've just worked it around with your help. @Moderators - you can close the thread if you wish, but please forward this to ASRock engineering teams. To me it's still a problem. When one buys a car, one doesn't tune the gas pedal manually, just because it gives too much fuel. That's factory's job!


Hi zlobster Smile Would it be possible for you to tell me exactly which settings you are using? I found this topic even before I built my PC very recently, and I'm worried about it. I have the X370 Taichi and a Ryzen 1700X just like you.

I have tried to set the VCore manually with what parsec recommended on the previous page, and to start, I set VCore to 1.30 V, stock frequency (I don't intend to overclock the CPU), and "Offset Mode" for the CPU VCore with a value of [-0.00625]. Everything else on Auto (I noticed that CPU LLC is Level 3 instead of 5 when left on Auto if "Offset Mode" is in use). But I'm still seeing the spikes you mentioned!

With everything on auto/default settings, from what I see in HWiNFO, mine go up to 1.519, more rarely 1.525 at low loads. With the changes to 1.30, I have seen up to 1.531 though! I don't know much about overclocking and I'm afraid of breaking something, so I reverted to all auto/default settings.

I upgraded to BIOS 3.20. When I bought the board, it had an old version, 2.20 if I recall correctly.

However, according to this thread on reddit, those spikes into 1.4-1.5 are a normal thing and are not dangerous : "Temporary blips into the range of 1.4V and 1.5V are completely normal, part of the design, and totally harmless. [...] Your mileage may vary, but all day at 1.35V is not safer than transient bursts up to 1.4 or 1.5V.". Also, further down, someone explains that what the monitoring tools show isn't equal to the "internal" voltage.

So, were/are we worried for nothing? Unless the X370 Taichi has a bug, of course. By the way, I think I've found a probable bug at least in BIOS 3.20: I read that for 1700X's and 1800x's, there is a 20-degree offset on the tCTL temperature [link, scroll down until you find a post by savagebeastzero]. When I was on BIOS 2.20, the temperature as reported by the BIOS didn't apply this offset and seemed normal, but BIOS 3.20 does have this offset, and hence, the idle CPU temp in the BIOS is very high, something like 46-52 for me, but when on Windows, HWMonitor apparently reports the true temperature, 20 degrees lower. My cooler (Noctua NH-U12S) seems to be correctly installed, and when I tested with OCCT and in games, the cooler doesn't become very hot to the touch and I didn't see temps higher than 55簞C in HWMonitor (and 75簞C in HWiNFO, which doesn't seem to take the offset into account). Have you noticed this too?

Honestly, I don't think that this offset is a good idea at all, because if had seen the high temperature on the newer BIOS on my very first boot, I would have been scared and thought my cooler was badly installed :/ It's the first time I built a PC, and I don't think I will do it again given how time-consuming and stressful it was. I also have a disability which makes it difficult for me to build a PC, but fortunately I got help.


Edited by Onox - 27 Dec 2017 at 7:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 2:09am
Hey to you too, Onox! Beer

First things first. Please do NOT give up on custom PC building! One hiccup doesn't necessary mean a catastrophic failure. Well, sometimes it does, but that's life. Assembling PCs yourself is a rewarding and fun thing to do; do NOT stress about it.

I've been assembling PCs way before I could earn my own money, and sometimes it wasn't as smooth as I wanted it to be.

The fact that you've successfully assembled your first very own PC and it boots mean you've done NOTHING wrong with it! If your temps are as they should and PC works, then whatever the fault is, it's not with you.

As it turns out, the fault appears to be with ASRock in this case. I didn't even receive some sort of reply from these guys. Guess they care till you give them your hard earned cash, no longer than that. TBH, that's my first ASRock build since they splintered off from ASUS. I'm also planning to be my last. I just jumped wagons for the lulz but got more issues than I anticipated.

The X370 Taichi seems very well engineered but the state of their software/firmware is abysmal. I've seen better work from trainees in some IT companies. Sorry, but I have.

Now, on the case - my issues somewhat differ from yours, although we share the same skepticism and worries.

As you see, I'm still on P3.10, so is another user, datonyb (who seems to be perfectly happy with his board, though). My issues are: I get bad voltage spikes on auto settings; I get high temps on idle with auto settings(!); my Sapphire Boost is not working. Well, these are the ones that bug me the most but the list is nowhere near short.

None of the offset or manual settings produced desirable results. So did the LLC settings. On all auto I had spikes around 1.58, 1.59V!!! The hell these are normal! Only thing that put the voltage where I set it was the P-states. They were fixing the voltage exactly where I wanted it to.

Problem with P-states is that they still produce sub-optimal voltages. And this bugs me beyond words.

Now I've settled for my broken Sapphire Boost. CPU caps at 3400MHz but at least I never get above 1.212V. Vcore also drops to 0.8V when idling. This is far from the XFR but at least it behaves like a normal PC, albeit slower. In this Ryzen build of mine stability is more important than sheer speed.

Oddly enough I haven't seen such issues with ASUS or MSI. Gigabyte already fried some Ryzens with high voltage, so I don't even consider them. I know because I took an extensive search on the webz but nowhere you can see such behavior en masse as here.

Also, you should go for Tdie when reading temps. HWiNFO reports that OK for me. There is 20C offset from Tdie & Tctl. That's by AMD design. ASRock replaced the reported temp on other boards, my guess is that they did it silently with the Taichi too.

All my fans are blasting @ 100%, so I don't really care about smooth RPM control. Your hand is the best indicator as you noted. IMO 55C is just fine with your cooler. I think you installed it correctly.

To conclude, leave all on auto and wait for a better times (and UEFI). I think your case is really close to the intended operation of your system, you should be just fine. Wink It's also noteworthy that no public software can monitor the real-time voltages and currents. CPU's internal circuity is switching these way too fast. Even if you see 1.55V for 1-2s it means that the CPU went there for a fraction of a second, but monitoring SW can't get to that time resolution.


Edited by zlobster - 28 Dec 2017 at 2:11am
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 6:19am
Read the reddit post again where AMD_Robert explains about the "spikes" being normal and part of the technology/specifications of the processor.

There is NO problem with the Asrock board or firmware in regard to the voltage spikes with auto settings in bios.
X399 Fat Pro Gaming bios 3.10 - TR4 1900X - 64GB G-SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ @ 3133MHz - Vega 64 AIO with EK block - WC Custom loop - 1500W Silverstone PSU - yay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 7:14am
Originally posted by lowdog lowdog wrote:

Read the reddit post again where AMD_Robert explains about the "spikes" being normal and part of the technology/specifications of the processor.

There is NO problem with the Asrock board or firmware in regard to the voltage spikes with auto settings in bios.


I agree with you the things you said. I won't chant my typical mantra here, though. I anyone wants to see it, all they have to do is to scroll up a few pages. Tongue

When I get to put a new UEFI version I'll be sure to update you guys, so you'd know how it went. That's in case anyone cares. Big smile
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lowdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 11:50am
Watch the 3.10 bios....vcore can creep up by .05 over time so instead of having 1.35 volts load it can gradually rise to 1.4 volts.

This didn't happen with the 3.0 bios.
X399 Fat Pro Gaming bios 3.10 - TR4 1900X - 64GB G-SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ @ 3133MHz - Vega 64 AIO with EK block - WC Custom loop - 1500W Silverstone PSU - yay
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by lowdog lowdog wrote:

Watch the 3.10 bios....vcore can creep up by .05 over time so instead of having 1.35 volts load it can gradually rise to 1.4 volts.

This didn't happen with the 3.0 bios.


Thanks for the heads-up! HugParty

It's funny how the Taichi is the most sold X370 board AND the most praised one, yet only a select few individuals care about such important things.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks such things are unacceptable. I really wonder how easily people here get over it and go for tons of other workarounds, instead of whining for a fix (like me)?
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 5:53am
Look what I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBmVf0S4UDs

That's the official ASUS Ryzen OC ad, err, guide. While the video is interesting for all OC beginners, I'd like to point out something else there.

Once the guy enters UEFI and start explaining stuff, keep an eye on the Vcore! Even stock ASUS UEFI is reporting constant 1.5V Vcore @3.6GHz!!!

Once he boots into Win and start CPU-Z you can see the voltage spikes often to 1.48V while dude doesn't even blink. Granted, that's a really old UEFI version in this video, but that's an insane Vcore value IMO.

Maybe it's indeed a CPU/AGESA thing? Can someone with other mobos running 1072a post some info? Heck, even Biostar (LOL?) posted 1072a AGESA for their X370 lineup. WTF, ASRock?
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 12:21am
^ That  ASUS video makes me wonder.
1.4+v with all cores going in CineBench...hmmm.

To be honest, on stock/auto it's around 1.25v for all-core voltage on 1700X on the TaiChi.  In my case it'll happily do all core loads on just under 1.10v!
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote baskura Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 6:28pm
The voltage spikes you are seeing are NORMAL for Ryzen and you should not be concerned of spikes into the 1.5v range when using the Auto setting for V-core voltage.

What is causing these spikes? It's XFR (Extended Frequency Range) which is a feature of Ryzen which is ONLY enabled when running at stock (i.e. Auto settings). XFR monitors your CPU thousands of times per seconds and dynamically adjusts the overclock and voltage on the fly.

BUT BUT BUT 1.5v WILL DEGRADE RYZEN!!!!!1111

This is correct - however when you see these large voltage spikes they are in fact not over all cores/the whole chip. When your Ryzen CPU boosts to its maximum performance it will bump the voltage momentarily over 1 or 2 cores and it is NOT the same as running high voltage over the whole CPU. The peak voltage is usually when the CPU comes 'off load', are for a split second and WILL NOT damage your chip.

If you overclock your Ryzen CPU/lock your voltage in any way, XFR is disabled which is why you no longer see the voltage spikes. Of course overclocking will net you more performance, but the Auto/Stock settings are SAFE.

This is not an Asrock bug, it's a Ryzen feature, it happens on both my Asrock Taichi and Asus Crosshair VI.

AMD know more than any one of us about what is/isn't safe for their chips and they wouldn't run this way otherwise.


Edited by baskura - 03 Jan 2018 at 6:30pm
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