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vCores please [1700x/TaiChi]

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datonyb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 4:56am
yes the vcore dropping itself ONLY started from bios 3.1 onwards (or maybe version3)
all bios before that the vcore stayed firmly at 1.3 volts

as ive said i cannot explain why, i am quite strict and practised at setting up my overclock
(i still follow techcity's you tube guide which was based on bios version 1.6)

all i can say is

it works well for me Smile

the down-volting wasnt required as has been proven enough even stuck at 1.3 volt the cpu's current drops off when on idle as does the temps so i never bothered with worrying about downvolting (i still get 23 degrees idle)
and yes i use ryzen power plan

im U.K. based as well
south london your welcome to pm me for a phone call if you want

r7 1700 powercolor reddevil vega64 gskill tridentz3866 taichi x370 evga 750watt gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 6:02pm
Cor blimey, cheers cobber! ;)
OK, so it might be worth me just going to v3.10 if not for the potential for it to down volt itself, but to get the fan control options as well.

You raise an interesting point.  Volts aren't necessarily heat.  There is another component in the Ivy-Watts equation, current.  Current the actual amount of flow of electrons, rather than the steepness of the gradient and thus their speed.  Low current  = low heat with same volts.  Though low volts and low current mean lower temps (potentially) longer life etc.

Mine is sitting around 23°C Tdie on idle and 25.5°C T-socket on idle.  NH-U14s A14 is on 20% duty ~350rpm, Fractal GP-14s on medium setting (7v).

I'll take a gander at techcity and see what notes I can take.

Thanks for the offer to chat.  I may take you up on that if I get real stuck.  It'll be a message sent from the RPi crying "Help" when something won't turn on :D


Aside from these tweaks, every morning I put this machine on I have a great big smile on my face as it boots quicker than I can put a T-shirt on, and is taking everything I can throw at it, and quietly!
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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datonyb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Oct 2017 at 1:41am
bryans you tube taichi overclocking guide

second half is the p states bit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Tw-wcT7o4

r7 1700 powercolor reddevil vega64 gskill tridentz3866 taichi x370 evga 750watt gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 7:42pm
...back to this again.

I thought I'd have another little play around.
Dropped Fixed Voltage to 1.325 (minus 4).

CPU MHz still drop to ~2.2GHz and boost up to XFR speed to ~3.9GHz, so all is working there.

I think I still need a little clarification on just what numbers I should be monitoring:

Individual Core VID I think might be a bit bogus - well 1.55v is shocking if not!
We know that the frequency isn't strictly true either, as when using "Ryzen Balanced" powerplan, the frequency is pegged at max always.

The bottom screen grab shows two lots of info that might be at least believable.
However, who's numbers are correct?  I know the 'Tdie' is a real sensor on the chip, and the 'CPU' temp (lower) is the Tsocket sensor in the motherboard.
But regarding voltages?  I set it to 1.325 LL2, so they are both quite close.





My temps are still nicely low, and I don't see 1.4v+ any longer, so that's good.  I haven't yet ventured into P-states, but could do so.

Maybe I should check out UEFI 3.1 and see if the vCore drops off more when idle, as this is pretty static, even though the low temp shows that it's clearly not burning the chip up.
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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datonyb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 7:49pm
since writing the above
i have been playing myself
mainly getting my ram sorted

i now overclock a little different

i dont set p states anymore
i just liteally set freq, and volts on the oc tweaker page (top section)
and leave the lower voltage set to auto (further down page)
i do however set the llc to l2 down the page
0.384 - 0.688 on idle  while still at 3.9 ghz

im still on bios 3.1 (and will be for a while )

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2017 at 3:42am
Interesting you say that you adjust the uppermost voltage, and not the lower.
I found that if I edit the voltage lower down the page it makes a difference, whilst the upper does not.

Maybe I need to jump to p3.10.

I am still very impressed at just what this system is capable of.  It's mildly annoying that the router and modem take longer to start than this PC gets to the Windows desktop, I never expected that to be the case.


Note: These are not actual screen shots of what I have edited.
In the top image I have it set to Auto.
In the bottom image I have it set to Fixed mode, 1.325v Level 2 for both LLC options.

It looks like there is still some playing around here to get the most out of it.  AS far as I am concerned, I am totally happy with the stock performance and have no need to disable that.  But why have extra volts running through it when they aren't needed?
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 7:34am
Ich glaube das ich habe etwas gefunden!  Yeah, well my German probably makes as much sense as my questions and typed out thoughts....but I think I have found something, and it seems relatively offiicial no doubt:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6dawyw/overclock_ryzen_1800x_vs_relying_on_turbo/di1h591/

This is from AMD_Robert an AMD Technical Marketing rep:

"Temporary blips into the range of 1.4V and 1.5V are completely normal, part of the design, and totally harmless. The dynamic vcore we use is always relative to the number of utilized cores, the load on those cores, the current being drawn from the CPU socket, and the current temperature. If temps are high, load is high, core loading is high, then the CPU will not run up the voltage. If they're low, any one of these values offset or "cancel out" a few milliseconds at 1.4V+.
If you watch HWiNFO's average vcore for a few hours, you'll see that the average vcore for Ryzen over time is about 1.1 or 1.25V. So if you're running all day long at 1.35V, you're putting more volts through the chip than it would if left alone.
Your mileage may vary, but all day at 1.35V is not safer than transient bursts up to 1.4 or 1.5V."

From what I read here:
- The CPU vCore will spike to even 1.5v when XFR turbo boosting.
- Running on dynamic vCore with these transient bursts is safer than a higher vCore (1.35v) permanently.

However, I still see that these "transient bursts" are not so transient when running stress tests like Prime95 on 1 or 2 cores.  Maybe the 1.495v might be a spike, but it's still not coming down from 1.395v - which is basically 1.4v in my book.

When all threads are being stressed vCore drops down to just under 1.2v with the default "Auto" settings.

Fixing 1.3v on the vCore in EUFI stops the chip from pulling anything else than 1.3v.  XFR still worked perfectly on my chip at least.

So, what I am aiming for is limiting vCore to 1.3v max draw, as it has zero need to go above that.  I may be able to adjust this in the P-state settings, which is my next point of call.  However the XFR boost frequency is hidden as a ghost P-state and governed by the on chip system management.

For us that don't want to overclock but instead want to achieve a best possible optimised efficiency / longevity setup are we stuck between a hard place and a rock that has just been chucked down?  I shall investigate more.
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 8:01am
Ah!
Well, of course the vCore will be high under default "auto" settings because of the 0.01% of chips that need it.   That's normal.  I'd doubt AMD would let their chip get hammered too hard by design - it's be planned obsolescence gone too far, unless they wanted their company to become obsolete!

Right, political waffle and speculation aside; the SMU!
Apparently, and I have no way to test, the power management on the actual chip requests # volts but may actually use something else.  Does the SMU get damaged by pulling too many volts, what is it's safe limit?  The indication is that the SMU provides safe voltage (1.365v?) internally where needed.

Now, when one ants to overclock, the SMU is gonna pull and keep pulling more power in and distribute it on a less than personally optimised graph.  Why is it not optimised?  Because it's meant for normal operations, not overclocking.  So, when overclocking it's back to the old manual affair of setting up your own voltages.

Still I think I will play with P-states to achieve an optimal low idle voltage and not too high load voltage.  It'd be nice to set up 2-core and all core volts but we'll see.
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 7:47pm
Manually fixing a static voltage always leads to 2 possibilities (at least in my case):
1) I end up with unnecessarily large value, leading to excess heat waste and CPU 'wear'
2) I end with a tad too low voltages and under heavy stress the system becomes unstable

Something odd here. Other than Gigabyte's bad BIOS that was frying Ryzens, no other manufacturer seems to be having this Vcore behavior. None I was able to find, at least.

Here is the course I plotted for now - first, try to ask The Stilt about the voltages; second - try a DOS UEFI flash, AFTER Win 10 FCU and 'Adrenalin' matures a bit.
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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