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X399-HD not showing in UEFI boot list in RAID mode

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DbRbt View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 5:26am
Greetings from a new ASRock owner!

Recently purchased X399 Taichi board, managed to breeze through the basic setup with memory, CPU,  Video card, working perfectly and then hit a brick wall trying to switch mode to RAID.

My basic install was with a single SSD drive for testing. This drive shows up in UEFI boot list if mode is AHCI. Smile Great, I thought...Cry

But, if I switch to RAID mode (and reboot) the drive is no longer available in UEFI/BIOS boot list. No matter what I tried I could not get the drive/volume to show up in UEFI boot list.

I contacted tech support, but their response was not helpful. If anyone has been able to successfully use RAID mode on this MB, I would be grateful for pointers

These are the details of what I tried:
  • When I switch to RAID mode I see a non-RAID volume created automatically and the physical drive is associated with it, however neither that RAID volume nor the individual drive is available in the boot list.
  • Tried deleting default non-RAID volume and created a new raid volume of type "VOLUME", and restarted : no effect
  • Tried deleting default non-RAID volume and created a new volume of type RAIDABLE and restarted - no effect
  • Disabled CSM and restarted -- no effect
  • Enabled CSM and set Storage opROM to UEFI ONLY and restarted -- no effect
  • Loaded UEFI defaults and restarted and then tried all previous variations again. -- no effect
  • Tried with different SATA port -- no effect
  • Tried with a different drive - no effect
  • Tried with a different SATA cable -- no effect
  • Tried upgrading to just released UEFI v2.0 -- no effect
  • Tried downgrading to older UEFI v1.5 -- no effect
Please note that this problem is happening before even attempting any OS installation... just UEFI/BIOS

As I mentioned, if I switch back to AHCI mode, everything works -- drive appears in boot list, and I can continue with OS installation.
What am I missing?


Edited by DbRbt - 29 Nov 2017 at 5:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MisterJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 9:10am
DbRbt, sorry you are having so much trouble - most do, unfortunately.  How did you install your copy of W10?  Perhaps you used a USB stick created with Media Creation Tool.  If so, how did you boot it?  The USB stick would show up twice in your boot list - one with UEFI in from of it.  That is the one you want to boot.  If you did not or are not sure, you will need to install W10 again.  You need to be installing W10 x64 version 1703 or 1709.  If you can still boot into W10, hit Windows Key-R and type winver.  You'll get an About with the details.  Now what are you trying to do?  Create a bootable RAID or a RAID data disk?  The first must be done using the version of RAIDXpert2 (RX2) that is in the BIOS (under Advanced when RAID mode is set).  You can create a RAID data disk in RX2 under W10.  Do you want your RAID using SATA drives or NVMe drives?  To start, please DL the RAID Installation Guide, here:  http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X399%20Taichi/index.asp#Manual  See Page 11 and up.
Install the latest BIOS.  Please ask any questions and you could also search the Forum for RAID threads.  Enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 11:42am
Originally posted by DbRbt DbRbt wrote:

Greetings from a new ASRock owner!

Recently purchased X399 Taichi board, managed to breeze through the basic setup with memory, CPU,  Video card, working perfectly and then hit a brick wall trying to switch mode to RAID.

My basic install was with a single SSD drive for testing. This drive shows up in UEFI boot list if mode is AHCI. Smile Great, I thought...Cry

But, if I switch to RAID mode (and reboot) the drive is no longer available in UEFI/BIOS boot list. No matter what I tried I could not get the drive/volume to show up in UEFI boot list.

I contacted tech support, but their response was not helpful. If anyone has been able to successfully use RAID mode on this MB, I would be grateful for pointers

These are the details of what I tried:
  • When I switch to RAID mode I see a non-RAID volume created automatically and the physical drive is associated with it, however neither that RAID volume nor the individual drive is available in the boot list.
  • Tried deleting default non-RAID volume and created a new raid volume of type "VOLUME", and restarted : no effect
  • Tried deleting default non-RAID volume and created a new volume of type RAIDABLE and restarted - no effect
  • Disabled CSM and restarted -- no effect
  • Enabled CSM and set Storage opROM to UEFI ONLY and restarted -- no effect
  • Loaded UEFI defaults and restarted and then tried all previous variations again. -- no effect
  • Tried with different SATA port -- no effect
  • Tried with a different drive - no effect
  • Tried with a different SATA cable -- no effect
  • Tried upgrading to just released UEFI v2.0 -- no effect
  • Tried downgrading to older UEFI v1.5 -- no effect
Please note that this problem is happening before even attempting any OS installation... just UEFI/BIOS

As I mentioned, if I switch back to AHCI mode, everything works -- drive appears in boot list, and I can continue with OS installation.
What am I missing?


Sorry, but some of your statements don't make sense, or I don't understand them. Such as:

When I switch to RAID mode I see a non-RAID volume created automatically and the physical drive is associated with it, however neither that RAID volume nor the individual drive is available in the boot list.

A non-RAID or RAID volume would not be created automatically. You then said first it is non-RAID, and then it is a RAID volume. A volume is a partitioned and formatted drive.

Creating a RAID array does not partition or format it at all, all it has on it is the RAID meta-data, the information about the RAID array itself. New or unpartitioned/unformatted single drives or RAID arrays will appear in the Storage Configuration screen, that is normal.

Old BIOS firmware (or UEFI firmware run in Legacy BIOS mode (CSM Enabled, all CSM sub-options set to Legacy Only) in AHCI mode will list unpartitioned/unformatted drives in the Boot Order, but since they are really not bootable at all, what is point of doing that?

UEFI firmware run in full UEFI mode (CSM disabled) or run in UEFI storage mode (CSM enabled, but the CSM sub-option Launch Storage OpROM Policy set to UEFI Only) will ONLY list truly bootable volumes in the boot order. That is, volumes with an EFI boot partition, GPT formatted, and of course full Windows installation. Those volumes will be shown in the Boot Order with this format:

Windows Boot Manager (Drive Name)

A drive or RAID array that will be the target for a Windows installation does NOT need to be seen in the Boot Order. I know we are accustomed to seeing those drives in the Boot Order with BIOS and Legacy emulated UEFI firmware, but as long as the drive/array is detected in the Storage Configuration screen, or by the RAID software, everything is fine.

Just in case you are not following this procedure, whenever you change the SATA mode or any setting related to CSM (or really 99% of  UEFI/BIOS options), you must Save and Exit the UEFI before the settings are truly applied.

You had a single drive Windows installation done in AHCI mode, and then changed to RAID mode, and the PC no longer booted from the single drive. That is 100% normal. All you have from the single drive Windows installation is an AHCI storage controller and driver (see Device Manager), but you do not have a RAID storage controller active, with the required drivers in that Windows installation.

Changing the SATA mode in the UEFI/BIOS is NOT communicated to Windows, and it has no idea which type of driver to load (IDE, AHCI, RAID) as well as which compatible RAID driver(s) to use. This is a known situation with Windows, and there is no current way around it besides a registry edit to allow changing the SATA mode. Even if you did the registry edit, Windows 10 still does not have the appropriate AMD RAID drivers to use for X399, so it would still not boot.

Yes you can proceed with a Windows installation in AHCI mode, and you can also proceed with a Windows installation meant for an AMD X399 RAID array. Yes, in RAID mode the RAID array won't initially be seen by the Windows installation program. There are several reasons for that.

You must do a Custom Windows installation, and load the AMD X399 RAID drivers, minimally in UEFI storage mode, or full UEFI booting mode. More explanation to follow.

First you need to use the AMD X399 RAID manual that describes installing Windows 10 on an X399 RAID array:

htt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 9:32am
yup got the same issue.
In AHCI the storage controller is in legacy mode therefore you havea MBR and a legacy booth system
When you switch to raid the storage become UEFI. UEFI will not show a boot device until you have a UEFI OS installed on it.

In short you need to reinstall windows in UEFI mode when you move to raid.
If you want my full story look at my post on this forum call X399 Taichi and storage :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DbRbt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 2:18am
MisterJ, parsec and pape!

Thank you so very much for your exhaustive and detailed responses.

They have helped me understand how UEFI actually works, and I have managed to overcome the hurdle.

While I have decades of experience building PC's behind me, this is the first true UEFI based system I built, and as you all pointed out, the boot list no longer reflects all possible boot targets like in BIOS or legacy emulated UEFI. That was my error. I kept expecting to see the HD in the boot list before installing windows.
Once I installed windows, sure enough, I had a Windows manager entry in the boot list.

I am very grateful for your help and the education.

Now I am struggling with an unrelated issue. I actually installed Win7 -- "mostly". Managed to navigate through all the USB and RAID F6(floppy) driver hurdles. Windows7 installs runs up to the point when the installation process reboots into the new installation on the HD to finalize the settings. 

At that point, it successfully boots into windows boot manager, but then is unable to start Windows -- generating an error that it either cannot locate the necessary file, or the hardware has changed.

So, I will have more fun trying to unravel this. -- On a side note, I also tried installing Win7 in AHCI mode on an MBR partitioned disk. It was a champ! Breezed through the installation and works perfectly. 

Thanks again,
Dan


Edited by DbRbt - 01 Dec 2017 at 2:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DbRbt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 2:39am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:



Sorry, but some of your statements don't make sense, or I don't understand them. Such as:

When I switch to RAID mode I see a non-RAID volume created automatically and the physical drive is associated with it, however neither that RAID volume nor the individual drive is available in the boot list.

A non-RAID or RAID volume would not be created automatically. You then said first it is non-RAID, and then it is a RAID volume. A volume is a partitioned and formatted drive.

Creating a RAID array does not partition or format it at all, all it has on it is the RAID meta-data, the information about the RAID array itself. New or unpartitioned/unformatted single drives or RAID arrays will appear in the Storage Configuration screen, that is normal.




I understand your confusion -- it is probably coming from term "non-RAID", which is a term used in ASRock's UEFI for a specific >>type<< of RAID array -- just their unfortunate terminology. I also used the term volume, when I meant array...

But, to address your question, the UEFI (in RAID mode), does automatically create a raid array of type "non-RAID" for physical drives which do not participate in any real RAID arrays. You can see it if you connect a new drive, and then go into the RaidExpert2 EUFI page. then click on entry to view existing arrays under array managementYou will see an array of type "non-RAID" with the physical disk, just connected to the system, associated with that array.

In fact, in my travails, I tried deleting this "non-RAID' array. And, while I was able to delete it, it would get recreated automatically on the next boot.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2017 at 4:50am
DbRbt, I call the "non-RAID" things ghosts.  I also had a ghost RAID0 (I did create it (NVMe) but it did not work) that I could not delete.  Neither ASRock nor AMD could help, so my MB is being RMAed.  I hope to get it back soon - they have my old board and have assigned a new S/N.  A real shame that I have to RMA a board because I cannot delete a ghost drive/array.
If you have not looked at Pape's thread, please do, here: http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6722&title=x399-taichi-storage
I think he talks about a W7 RAID but I cannot find it now.  At least you can see my diatribe about W10 x64 >= 1703 only being supported by AMD.
I suspect ultimately getting a W7 RAID to work is a lost cause, but if you are willing, I suggest you go back to BIOS 1.50.  To do this you will need to save your data and delete all existing RAIDs, before down grading BIOS.  At best you will be able to create only SATA RAIDs and the BIOS will look considerably different.  I'll see if I can find you a link to the old instructions - let me know if you are interested.  Thanks for keeping us aware of your travails.  Enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DbRbt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 9:07am

MisterJ:

Thanks for all the pointers.

Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

DbRbt, I call the "non-RAID" things ghosts.  I also had a ghost RAID0 (I did create it (NVMe) but it did not work) that I could not delete.  Neither ASRock nor AMD could help, so my MB is being RMAed.  I hope to get it back soon - they have my old board and have assigned a new S/N.  A real shame that I have to RMA a board because I cannot delete a ghost drive/array.

I hope you have received your replacement board and that the problem is fixed.

I cannot comprehend that a board replacement was needed to correct a UEFI setting error. Unbelievable! I guess CMOS clear or reset to default did not clear the raid array definition?

 How is the NVMe support on this board? Many problems? I am planning to wade into those waters in a few months when Samsung 980 comes out.

 On my end, I have managed to get past the last hurdle I mentioned. Windows actually installed completely under RAID mode. The problem was that win7 messed up the win boot manager settings, and could not initiate the windows load manager.  Took forever to identify. I suspect this has to do with windows installation on a GPT disk, rather than a problem caused by RAID mode installation. In any case I am now ironing out the remainder of the bugs.

In Win I have 2 raid controllers installed properly, and 2 for which windows did not install drivers, but are listed in the device list. Apparently (  https://community.amd.com/thread/214160 )  these drivers have to be installed manually. But, I have to figure out which drivers to use, as they are not obvious.

 I also set up a RAID1 array (2x 4TB), configured through UEFI (successfully!!), but I can? access it in Windows because RaidXpert2 (in windows)  claims "array 2 not allowed by current license level" !! Weird. Probably will have to contact AMD tech support to get this sorted out.

Best, Dan.


 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 10:13am
DbRbt, I have received my replacement board and I have not tried to create a RAID yet, but the same ghost drives and RAID0 are still there.  I really think there is something seriously wrong with the function design.  I opened a new AMD ticket today to try to get some help.  Have you seen this thread?  http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6859&title=x399-fatality-1950x-raid-problems
Looks like msco has the same problem as I.  My NVMe drives (3X960) work great!  Do you continue to run W7 and your RAIDs are all SATA?  When I run RX2 and get "array 0 not allowed by current license level"  it means that the drivers are not installed (in Windows) or RAID is not enabled in the BIOS.  I do not know what the 2 means, but I think it is not really a license issue.  Please keep us up to date.  Thanks much and enjoy, John.

EDIT: I looked at the rumors on the Samsung 970 and 980 and they look no faster than my 960s.


Edited by MisterJ - 09 Dec 2017 at 10:20am
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2017 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by DbRbt DbRbt wrote:

MisterJ, parsec and pape!

Thank you so very much for your exhaustive and detailed responses.

They have helped me understand how UEFI actually works, and I have managed to overcome the hurdle.

While I have decades of experience building PC's behind me, this is the first true UEFI based system I built, and as you all pointed out, the boot list no longer reflects all possible boot targets like in BIOS or legacy emulated UEFI. That was my error. I kept expecting to see the HD in the boot list before installing windows.
Once I installed windows, sure enough, I had a Windows manager entry in the boot list.

I am very grateful for your help and the education.

Now I am struggling with an unrelated issue. I actually installed Win7 -- "mostly". Managed to navigate through all the USB and RAID F6(floppy) driver hurdles. Windows7 installs runs up to the point when the installation process reboots into the new installation on the HD to finalize the settings. 

At that point, it successfully boots into windows boot manager, but then is unable to start Windows -- generating an error that it either cannot locate the necessary file, or the hardware has changed.

So, I will have more fun trying to unravel this. -- On a side note, I also tried installing Win7 in AHCI mode on an MBR partitioned disk. It was a champ! Breezed through the installation and works perfectly. 

Thanks again,
Dan


The reason the Windows 7 installation, when installed in X399's RAID/UEFI mode, failed to boot is relatively simple if not at all obvious.

While Windows 7 can be UEFI booting compatible, the Windows 7 installation file structure has a mistake in the location of the EFI boot loader file, or the hard coded path to that file is incorrect. That EFI boot loader file is what is used for UEFI booting, and without it a UEFI Windows installation cannot boot. The error message you quoted actually applies to the situation, the necessary file (EFI boot loader) cannot be found.

A decent explanation of this and instructions for fixing the Windows 7 installation ISO file layout for UEFI booting can be found in the guide below. While this guide is about Windows 8 and 8.1, the information it contains about Windows 7 is valid and only applies to Windows 7. Scroll down to step 11 in the Option 2 section for the details:

https://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/15458-uefi-bootable-usb-flash-drive-create-windows.html

The fix is a little tricky, and I've had both successes and failures creating the fixed Windows 7 installation media. Note that if you get Windows 7 installed and booting in UEFI mode, the question of whether or not the AMD X399 RAID drivers and RAID software will work with Windows 7 remains to be determined.

This also explains why your Windows 7 AHCI/Legacy MBR mode installation worked fine. That type of installation does not use the EFI boot loader, so works fine with the standard Windows 7 installation media. RAID for X399 is callled "UEFI RAID" in the AMD manual, and UEFI booting seems to be required both for SATA and NVMe OS volumes.

There might be a way via a BCD edit to get Windows 7 to use the EFI boot loader in its default location, if you could run it in a pre-boot environment. That would be after an X399 RAID/UEFI mode Windows 7 installation, with the OS volume somehow partitioned in GPT. Again, the RAID driver and software compatibility might make all the work a waste of time.

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