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X370 Taichi build advise

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thanosb View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 5:30am
Hi Everyone

I'm a newbie to pc build and planning to build an 8core 16thread ryzen on X370 Taichi system, but because of the problems -segfaults and lockups-  those cpus have, and not wanting to go through an RMA procedure or search for the after 2017 25? 30? 33? week products, I'm considering to buy a ryzen 3 1200 for now, and upgrade later, after stepping 2 comes out.

I'm also considering Patriot 4 2x16gb 2800, 3000, 3200 and Patriot Elite 2x16gb 2800 for this build. These modules  are not in the taichi  memory QVL list, but they are in Patriot Amd Ryzen compatibility list.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11624/patriot-publishes-list-of-amd-ryzen-compatible-dimms-up-to-ddr43400-up-to-64-gb

Has anyone tested any of those memory modules on X370 Taichi, and do you think that the combination of ryzen 3 1200 with  32gb ram will fail? Any advise would be appreciated.

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Xaltar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 6:48am
Check Patriot's website for the memory's QVL Wink
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thanosb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thanosb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

Check Patriot's website for the memory's QVL Wink

Thanks for the reply. I've spent some time searching but found only the link in my previous post and the following:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/patriotmemory/wp-content/uploads/20170706081850/Copy-of-The-compatibility-list-for-AMD-Ryzen_062217.pdf
The modules I'm interested in are included in those lists. I've seen however reports that modules included in manufactures' memory QVL lists are not really compatible. I'm not implying that those lists are unreliable, since there are many factors that can brake things. In any case, considering that AM4 ram compatibility is somewhat tricky, I thought that asking here would make me feel more safe about my ram choices.
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datonyb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2017 at 8:10pm
i would work off the basis of making sure my ram sticks were samsung b dies myself

allthough now with later bios revisions we are seeing more stable support for lesser ic chips on the ram sticks

heres a link of ram and what actual dies make it up, as said the preferred choice is to buy ram using samsung B die

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/?st=j8yvhzyy&sh=2bdbd4a0
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2017 at 12:42am
thanosb, I would suggest you not start with memory that is not qualified.  datonyb is the memory person here and I strongly recommend you listen.  I think you are way too concerned about the rumor of processor problems and RMAs.  If you are planning on running Linux then perhaps but not W10 (only officially supported OS).  Both my R7 1800X and TR 1950X are very early releases and never had a problem with the processors.  Enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thanosb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 12:08am
Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

thanosb, I would suggest you not start with memory that is not qualified.  datonyb is the memory person here and I strongly recommend you listen.  I think you are way too concerned about the rumor of processor problems and RMAs.  If you are planning on running Linux then perhaps but not W10 (only officially supported OS).  Both my R7 1800X and TR 1950X are very early releases and never had a problem with the processors.  Enjoy, John.

Hi John
Of course I'm going to listen to datonyb and other forum users. You are more experienced and your opinions are valuable to me.

Actually I'm a Linux From Scratch user and I need the computer to compile open source projects with many parallel jobs on a tmpfs (ramdisk), so I think that my concern about a real problem and not rumor IMO, is justified. Thanks, Thanos.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thanosb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 2:18am
Originally posted by datonyb datonyb wrote:

i would work off the basis of making sure my ram sticks were samsung b dies myself

allthough now with later bios revisions we are seeing more stable support for lesser ic chips on the ram sticks

heres a link of ram and what actual dies make it up, as said the preferred choice is to buy ram using samsung B die

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/62vp2g/clearing_up_any_samsung_bdie_confusion_eg_on/?st=j8yvhzyy&sh=2bdbd4a0

Hi datonyb and thanks for the info. Firstly let me account for my mobo and ram choices (that I should have done from the beginning, sorry for that).

The technician that will do the assembly recommended both Taichi and Patriot. I think that Taichi is considered to be a mobo for overclockers. The reasons I chose it however are the overall quality (see my reply to @MisterJ@ for the purpose of this build) and ram compatibility. As for the 2800 - 3200MHz ram frequencies, they are due to various references I read on the internet that ryzens are more stable with higher  frequency ram.

That said, my goal is firstly stability and secondly speed. I have no intention to overclock cpu and ram  to gain speed at the expense of stability and reliability. What is your opinion about the mobo and ram choices in relation to the aforementioned computer use and goals?

From the reddit link I come to the conclusion that Samsung B die rams are over 2800 MHz. Is that correct? What is your opinion about 2400 - 2666MHz ram for this build?

Thanks, Thanos.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Dec 2017 at 2:57am
well to answer the few points in a broader covering reply

the samsung b die from day one has been the least painful ram to run with the taichi

as with most ryzens and amd am4 chipsets

the reason its b die at is really 3200 upwards is because any other dies seems to struggle on intel or amd over 3200mhz (with sensible sub timings anyway) compared to hynix etc which must have much higher/looser timings

and then you require 32gb

which would have to be carefully choosen 4 x 8gb single sided ram sticks OR 2x16gb double sided

the old rule of more ic's (chips) to control the harder it is on the cpu's IMC comes into force here

the thing is the ryzen cpu does really like ram running at 3000+ mhz to optimise its own internal clocks (the infinity fabric)  in a similar way the older amd chips liked a nice high northbridge

sure it will work with lower speed ram, but i would still advise the old saying 'buy cheap - buy twice'

as far as motherboards go the taichi does indeed seem to be very forgiving about ram compared to others in its price range (we wont discuss my quirk of extreme fortune on a friends cheap msi b350 board and an insane stable overclock of his cheap ram)

at the end of the day no-one can give you 100% sure fire choice of parts, and we see that with all the manufactures boards not always running the qvl ram at advertised tested speeds

but i do know the best chance does seem to come in the samsung b dies flavour

as for stability ive had the taichi for over 6 months now with gskill tridentz 3200-cl15 2x8gb sticks

aside from my morbid interest to see how far it can go, its never played up once at anything which should run as advertised, this even goes back to the luanch time bios versions where hardly anyone got over 3000 mhz ram stable, mine just worked at 3200 after clicking the xmp button Smile

no crashes no lags no boot issues (the worst it done was auto change the cl15 cas to cl16) and carried onto boot cleanly

this was/is an issue with the amd agesa not wanting to use 'odd' numbered cas settings (there is a workaround, but isnt actually needed with decent ram, as you just lower it down to cl14 as is my case)

as for the patriot ram ?
who knows if its using the samsung b dies im sure it will behave the same as the rest

a clue can be found that if the primary timings are all equal it usually is

eg @ 3200 cl16/16/16/16 or cl14/14/14/14 etc ,this would not be sure fire but a good indication
and the size of the ic's means it;ll have to be an 8gb single sided or 16gb double sided stick

i hope this helps but may well have left more indecision in your choice

if your getting someone else to build it for you ,then there is also the fact if you go with his choice then he can be the one to worry about getting it running

maybe discuss some of the findings you have made with him ?

he may have had good experiance with patriot ram before (as i have had some years ago on intels) and is leaning towards that brand, i bought gskill for this build due to being able to confirm 100% the kit i choose was b dies (also never have they been on the taichi qvl)
in the past i used to favour corsair xms ram as a certain quaility and compatability ,alas corsair seems a bad choice for ryzen systems now

as i said have a chat with your system builder advise him what you have read maybe hes not that used to ryzen systems yet and might be glad you pointed out some experianced posts on the internet
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thanosb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thanosb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 3:25pm
Thanks for taking the time to write an extensive and detailed post that was really helpful. I'll let you Know how the build goes.

Thanos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Dec 2017 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by thanosb thanosb wrote:

[QUOTE=datonyb]What is your opinion about 2400 - 2666MHz ram for this build?

Thanks, Thanos.


For non gaming workloads 2666 is more than adequate. Even gaming only sees a marginal FPS bump with 3000+ vs 2666 and even then, that is using high end GPUs (1070ti or better). With anything lower than a GTX 1070 RAM speed becomes less of a factor.

In my own testing using a GTX 960 (system specs in my sig) I found very little real world performance difference between 2133 and 3600 RAM speeds. With my config, the GTX 960 was a bottleneck long before the frequency of the infinity fabric, determined by RAM speed, could get in the way. The primary reason AMD Ryzen is reported to be so sensitive to RAM speed is the infinity fabric being tied to RAM frequency. Real world parallel computing (non gaming) does not suffer for it in almost all usage scenarios. You are a linux user so I am going to guess gaming is not your primary focus here. 

In your situation I would go for a nice high capacity (16gb or more) 2400 kit, something certified for Ryzen like Gskill's Flare X range. 

Datonyb has given some very solid advice for anyone looking to get the most out of their RAM but in your use case you will benefit far more from larger capacity over raw speed. Kit yourself out with 16 - 32gb (2 modules not 4) of RAM and your system will serve your programming needs very well for a good long time to come.

As for your hardware choices, the Taichi is not strictly an overclocking board. It is designed to be an "all rounder" with a good balance of high end components and value for money. IMO, you couldn't have chosen a better board (I own one myself). Ryzen is a powerhouse for productivity (video editing, coding etc), especially the Ryzen 5 and 7 CPUs so again, solid choice. To get comparable performance from intel you would have to spend a good chunk more on both the CPU and whatever comparable motherboard you chose, Z370 Taichi is more expensive than it's X370 cousin.

Right now the best hardware choices are:

CPU: AMD
GPU: Nvidia

This is obviously where it comes to value, for raw gaming prowess intel still holds the crown but then you also need to spend big on the GPU to see any benefit.  
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