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High Voltage on Auto Clock

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zlobster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 5:05am
Then I guess there is something wrong with my stuff. I'm ceasing machine gun fire until I myself do the DOS re-flash and see how defaults are behaving.

P.S. frankly speaking, no user should ever be able to mess their config that much, even on purpose. I still appeal for more robust FW and thorough testing. Yes, I know it costs more to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Dec 2017 at 5:32am
Off topic: There are bugs in the firmware.  I'm on P3.00 which seems to be stable for most folk, and I discovered that hitting the Esc key whilst in the most open level causes UEFI to jam and require the physical reset button to be pressed on the case!

I think I have cracked my problem though!
P-states and Offset voltage is the key.

CPB, C-states etc all enabled as default.

P-0:
Custom 3400MHz @ 1.300v

P-1:
Custom 3000MHz @ 1.275v (same as default)

P-2:
Custom 2200MHz @ 0.900v (default) or maybe higher

In the OC Tweaker tab:
The second instance of CPU Vcore Voltage set to "offset" and start dropping it.
I've set it to -0.05v that's 50mV lower.
CPU Load-Line Calibration Level 3 (allows some vDroop)

Idle @ 2.2GHz = ~0.819v (from ~0.869v)
All cores @ 3.5GHz = ~1.160v (from ~1.2v)
Single core @ 3.8GHz = ~1.369 (from ~1.495)

This is looking promising at doing what I want.
Raising the P2 idle state a little will keep things ticking over nicely there whilst I reduce the offset further.  I may have to actually raise the P0 state back up as well, to ensure the ~1.2v is delivered for all cores, as it's quite a taxing scenario.

Not fully tested for stability, and not tested with a multimeter, so I could be being lied to, but this all looks rather good.

This seems an odd way to circumvent things though, pushing up vCore on P-states whilst globally offsetting voltage down.  In this case, are we telling the motherboard to offset what requests come from the CPU, or we just telling the motherboard to offset what it ever delivers?

I seem to have carried on my own thinking rather than perhaps helping the original poster again.  Sorry.

[edit: typeo on vCore number!!!]


Edited by VUMeter - 04 Jan 2018 at 12:20am
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yodivanbaped View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yodivanbaped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by VUMeter VUMeter wrote:

[URL=][/URL]
I have no want to keep putting 1.4-1.5v into the chip when it completely doesn't need it.


I just want to know if its save, then I?l not be worried anymore. I don? really understand about P-States. Also I don? think I can put my CPU into manual clock and voltage, since I had difficulties when trying to put my previous CPU (1300X) to even just 3.8Ghz. Anyway I? using P3.30 now, since you mentioned that P3.00 is more likely to be stable, I? might give a try to rollback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 9:28pm
While I still haven't tried the DOS re-flashing, let me tell you something else that won't ease your sleep.

I've opened a few tickets with both ASRock and AMD about the (what seems to be) high Vcore spikes - no answer thus far. If the voltages are fine then a simple reply will suffice. If the voltages are not OK then investigate and fix them. Silence again...

Another thing, the above goes for ASRock TSD. These guys appear to be lurking here but only reply to some trivial stuff. If the voltages were OK, I'd expect them to settle this once and for all. They haven't, yet. Odd, yes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yodivanbaped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Dec 2017 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by zlobster zlobster wrote:

[URL=][/URL]While I still haven't tried the DOS re-flashing, let me tell you something else that won't ease your sleep.

I've opened a few tickets with both ASRock and AMD about the (what seems to be) high Vcore spikes - no answer thus far. If the voltages are fine then a simple reply will suffice. If the voltages are not OK then investigate and fix them. Silence again...

Another thing, the above goes for ASRock TSD. These guys appear to be lurking here but only reply to some trivial stuff. If the voltages were OK, I'd expect them to settle this once and for all. They haven't, yet. Odd, yes?


A totally odd thing tbh.

Well then, now the best thing I think I can do is to put the clock and voltage manually, which I?l try to do later when I? on my PC. Maybe 3.8Ghz with 1.4v would be my best bet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 3:55am
I did get a reply from AMD and whilst they haven't specifically written exactly that 1.5v in auto mode whilst single (or 2) core operation boosting is happening (core performance boost 3.8HGz + XFR 100MHz = 3.9GHz) is safe, they have said that voltage spikes are safe and normal.

When I think about it, it does make sense that the CPU could request 1.55v as the VID value read for each core through HWinfo64 goes up to 1.55v.  Coupling in some vdroop from the motherboard a spike to just over 1.5v could be seen when running single or dual core tasks and thermals are good - the max possible frequency on those two cores will be achieved and so the chip will request that voltage.

However, when I asked about fixing the voltage to 1.30v, they also said that this was safe to do.  They add that I may experience instability due to the CPU perhaps requiring extra voltage [for the fastest frequency single/dual core loads] and the fixed voltage actually starving the chip. This seems like the issue that there are some chips that are just crud from the production line, and they will actually require about 1.5v to hit 3.9GHz, so all chips are programmed to request that.  Probably most chips won't need anywhere near that voltage for single/dual core operation at those frequencies.

Recommendation is to reset to defaults and use the processor [with it's ~0.9-1.5v range].


@yodivanbaped:

You should be able to let the CPU do everything auto but fix the voltage.
On the "OC Tweaker" page in BIOS, scroll down to the "Voltage Configuration" section (underneath the RAM timings).
Put "Voltage Mode" to Standard/Normal (not Auto, and not OC mode).
Put  "CPU vCore Voltage" to "Fixed Mode"
Put "Fixed Voltage" to 1.35000
Put "CPU Load-Line Calibration" to Level 3, 4 or 5.

Do not change the frequency of the CPU or change anything else from Auto.  This will make the CPU do everything as normal, except that you are forcing the motherboard to always provide 1.35v.  It should be stable.
The reason for the load-line calibration settings is that the greater the number the LESS it compensates for vDroop (under load), but also the less it overshoots when vDroop goes away (under no load).  Level 1 and level 2 can actually put the voltage higher than the value you set, and of course overshoots can be more extreme.  Equally Level 5 might not be aggressive enough, and if your chip needs the voltage, it may get a bit less than what value you entered.

You shouldn't need to set the clock frequency - because that is not in the voltage section.  Let the chip do whatever it does automatically.


Now, P-states are an interesting topic in themselves, and can provide the efficiency of a stock processor on auto settings when idling, but also a rather monstrous overclock when the system demands it.
However, what I am trying to do is not to overclock using P-states, but maintain a stable voltage under each load condition that is accessible (idle and all-core load) whilst using the global offset of voltage to provide a negative offset of the stock auto voltage.

I know my wording is probably hard to read.

So far, I am starting to see what I want to with my offset method and haven't needed to raise the idle or -all-core voltage just yet to compensate for the global offset.  It'd be nicer if they allowed use to enter a max ceiling for the motherboard instead of just fixed mode, but I am achieving a ceiling based on offsetting from what auto uses, and what fixed mode worked at.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 5:19am
OK, I just tried an offset of -0.100v, yes that's 100mV of negative offset.
I upped LLC to level 3, because I feel there is a little need for some extra anti-vDroop.

Idle @ 2.2GHz ~ 0.769v
All-Core @ 3.5GHz ~ 1.112v
Single-core @ 3.9GHZ ~ 1.369v

Max temp reached with limited testing 50簞C !

I ran Blender with the BMW image and it took 5m 12s (312 sec), so that's bang in line with reviews for this chip.  Cinebench ran just fine, using single, dual and all-cores.

The only program that is craptacular, is Ryzen Master.  It's a CPU hog and makes it extremely hard to measure anything because it's adding about 5-10簞C to idle temps, and causing the CPU to keep jumping around.  It must be the worst coded bit of software ever.  It actually crashes during Cinebench!  The system is still fine, just that damn program ain't.

I'll have to test this more for stability, but so far, I am rather happy.  Simply dial in an offset of -0.100v set LLC to level 3 and leave everything else as auto, no P-state fudgery or anything.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 6:19am
Here you go:

Quote ...The most accurate CPU Voltage reading will be from SVI2 TFN which is reporting the voltage the VRM controller is seeing.

Additionally some will freak out because of seeing CPU Voltage up to 1.55V in BIOS and OS at default settings. This is the default AMD behavior when CPB is Enabled. If up to two cores are loaded, the CPU will boost to a higher frequency with higher voltage (on 1800X up to 4.1 GHz 1.55V). If more cores are loaded, the frequency and voltage will drop. It's not dangerous and as stated, AMD spec.

So it's fine!  Which is kinda what the AMD rep said in the replay to my questions.
It seems strange that there was mention of 1.35 and 1.40 and 1.45v as maximum, do not go over for 24/7 operation.  Admittedly these were for overclocking, so it could well be that the CPU itself handles these voltages and actually can take in quite some volts to it's power distribution, which in turns sends out more sensible levels internally.  When overclocking is enabled, the power controller is less responsible and the user has to be mindful of not pushing volts into the thing.

As stated in a previous reply, running on 1.30v fixed is also fine and safe according to the AMD rep's reply.  Just that it's no longer within normal limits and may be unstable.

Looks like my chip might be a real low power consumer!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yodivanbaped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by VUMeter VUMeter wrote:


@yodivanbaped:

You should be able to let the CPU do everything auto but fix the voltage.
On the "OC Tweaker" page in BIOS, scroll down to the "Voltage Configuration" section (underneath the RAM timings).
Put "Voltage Mode" to Standard/Normal (not Auto, and not OC mode).
Put  "CPU vCore Voltage" to "Fixed Mode"
Put "Fixed Voltage" to 1.35000
Put "CPU Load-Line Calibration" to Level 3, 4 or 5.

Do not change the frequency of the CPU or change anything else from Auto.  This will make the CPU do everything as normal, except that you are forcing the motherboard to always provide 1.35v.  It should be stable.
The reason for the load-line calibration settings is that the greater the number the LESS it compensates for vDroop (under load), but also the less it overshoots when vDroop goes away (under no load).  Level 1 and level 2 can actually put the voltage higher than the value you set, and of course overshoots can be more extreme.  Equally Level 5 might not be aggressive enough, and if your chip needs the voltage, it may get a bit less than what value you entered.

You shouldn't need to set the clock frequency - because that is not in the voltage section.  Let the chip do whatever it does automatically.



Last night I put my CPU to 3.8Ghz on 1.4v, temps goes up, hits 65C after 5 loops of cinebench (with Deepcool Gammaxx 400 + thermal grizzly), only hits 61C while gaming tho.

HWMonitor reads max VCORE is 1.440v which I think is fine. I guess I will stick with this for now. Also I dont think I have the options you mentioned above, but let me check again later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2017 at 7:34pm

you really should be able to get the volts lower at 3.8 mate

as an example
my 1700 is at 3.9 and 1.325 volts
and both the 1600 systems i tuned were at less than 1.35 on 3.8 ghz

there will be a decent reduction in temps if you can lower it down to 1.35 from 1.4
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