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[X370 TaiChi/1700X] P3.10 trouble

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VUMeter View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 11:14pm
I just flashed to P3.10 from P3.00, it went fine, BUT:

1. H/W Monitor tab still shows T-ctrl for it's temp display (no options to change that).  I'm not that fussed if this is the case, but maybe I misread and thought that it was changeable/did change.

2. The fan control options allow for a few options, one being T-die but is not labelled as such.  Unfortunately it doesn't actually work when in the OS!  I've set it to raise the fan speed from 30-50% from 39簞C to 40簞C, but it's doing nothing even way over at 50簞C!

OpenHardwareMonitor and SpeedFan can both adjust the fan speed, but neither can read Tdie.

It seems that setting to use T-ctrl and offsetting the target temperatures +20簞C may get the functionality back, but that is just what I was doing under P3.00.

3. User datonyb has indicated that with their own overclocked 1700 and voltage set to fixed mode, they have scaling voltage which reduces vCore under idle conditions.
Fixed mode is fixed for me, as I would have expected.  I punched in 1.30000v and that is exactly what I get with LLC3 +0.001v.  I am not overclocking.

4. Whilst I can't be sure this didn't happen before, I think the BCLK is moving around in it's own!  On Auto it should stay fixed at 100MHz, and it isn't.  I've observed in HWInfo64 that it was 102.1MHz max.  I set it to 100MHz manual and it still moves to 100.5MHz on occasion.  
I think this is a possible source for system instability right there!!!

#. Is there a complete change log for each BIOS/UEFI update?  I'd like to know just what was changed in P3.10 from P3.00.
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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datonyb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 11:35pm
1 i think you have to hunt thru bios to change the temp setting eg tctrl and tdie
2 you know me and fans ......i leave the buggers alone so cant help there
3 did you mimic the settings ive posted of my bios in the temps thread ,and are you using the new ryzen powerplan
4 my bclk seems stable maybe 0.5 mhz if any (it usually knocks my overclock down to 3899 ish) mine is set to default /auto

and again ,im wondering if these 1700x and 1800x chips are causing the headaches eg behaving different to the non X chips
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

3800X, powercolor reddevil vega64, gskill tridentz3866, taichix370, evga750watt gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 11:42pm
OK, sorry, I can clear some things up:

2. T-die is still something NOT in the motherboard vocabulary!
The options are:

- Motherboard (the motherboard temp sensor)
- CPU (T-socket)
- CPU T-ctrl (Tctrl or T-die+20)

Nothing has changed if you want fans to follow the current chip temperature, you'll still have to manually input +20簞C values into the fan control options.

I have my fan values as such:
T1 59
%1 30
T2 40
%2 50
T3 70
%3 50
T4 85
%4 75
Critical 100

This works nicely for a Noctua NH-U14s in a Fractal R5.  The CPU fan is not constantly jumping up/down (and causing more perceptible noise as a result).  39/40簞C is the point at which the fan speed jumps to 50%.  I'd like to have control over hysteresis, and there is an option for this in a deeper advanced sub menu but I don't see it currently working.

1. It wouldn't surprise me to find this is what the temp reported in H/W monitor tab is still T-ctrl (Tdie+20).

3. Whilst Fixed mode voltage is doing what I'd expect it to do rather than what datonyb has it doing on their system, I have dialled in Offset to the same -0.100v as was in P3.00 and all seems stable.  vCore readings seems very similar.
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 11:53pm
well i just installed hwinfo64 and its reporting my vcore at 1.3-1.312 min and max in the cpu ryzen section

yet cpuz reports it dropping to 0.600

i think it was also hwinfo that reported my cpu vcore at twice its setting back in early days of ryzen
(exactly twice the set vcore)  apperently that was a bug in hwinfo
 yet in the asrock taichi x370 novotron section below it is indeed reading the voltage dropping down to sub 0.500 ranges



Edited by datonyb - 18 Dec 2017 at 11:54pm
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 11:56pm
For 3.

I am not overclocking so cannot copy exactly.
What I washed to achieve is a max vCore ceiling.  There has never been this option in any BIOS for any system as far as I am aware, so why would there be one now.  I was just hoping that "fixed" may do a similar job, it does not.

Offsetting -100mV seems to do the job just fine and the idle voltage drop ~880mV to 790mV is saving about 2w on the kWh meter!  Those will add up over time.
I have LLC set to level 5 too, so I am trying to run the heavy (single thread) load end lower and lower.  It does pull the all-core down from ~1.20v to ~1.10v.
I may run into stability problems at some point, and this will be my first point of call.

Maybe I should start to play with overclocking with P-states, but I have no desire to shorten the life of the chip, but the exact opposite.  I intend for this thing to last around 10 years.


Re -x vs non-x.
Yes, I am thinking the same thing as you.  The extra stress by allowing additional boosting via XFR and turbo - they clock higher, lets face it, means that they'll require more voltage.  This is why the VID is set to 1.55v.  Although it's argued as safe, I don't like it.  I am no AMD engineer though and I maybe just being a doofus over this point.

Off topic:
I am starting to play with the Windows Power Plans.  I have discovered Rightmark PPM Panel which offers some rather interesting information I have not yet seen reported by other s/w.

From what I read, Windows 7 was more multi-core single-thread thinking, rather than multi-thread multi-core.  Windows 10 (and to some extent 7) seem rather badly programmed in terms of actually utilising the processor intelligence and dealing with the distribution of load.
Just run a single threaded load and you can watch the % utlisation bounce around all over the shop.  Forcing a higher percentage of thread parking (or rather lower % unpark) stops this happening so much, but may lead to a more sluggish feel as the chip has to wake the cores up.

Windows is not quick at dealing with load changes, and this could be a reason for the Ryzen Balanced profile setting the CPU to keep itself 'awake'.

I am investigating this now that I am fairly satisfied with my voltage, temps and watts settings.
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 12:10am
yeah i didnt mean the actual overclock mate
i meant the sections i had altered to achieve what you wanted

but maybe the difference is down to leaving the 1700x do its extra X 'thaaang'

maybe a different out-the-box plan is needed
adjust the settings one would normally for overclocking but instead of applying high values like 3.9
maybe try some lower speed and lower volt to get the system snappy as it would on auto but more strictly controlled by user than by cpu ?
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 12:46am
BCLK is at 101.7MHz...bleh, if it ain't crashing....

I agree, thinking it's the difference between a combination of overclocking and the 1700-no-X compared with my no overclocked 1700X.

I don't really mind at all, as offsetting -100mV is working just fine.
I've started playing with Windows Power Plan 'deep' settings and seem to have effectively forced Win10 to stop being a moron and let a 2-threaded load run over 4 threads but on just two cores.  I think the whole reason why SMT is important is because it's quicker than sending a whole load down one thread to the core.
Ran a 1 and 2 thread benchmark on &zip and utilisation was about 50% over the 2 or 4 threads, I am happy with that.  Before I tweaked the plan, it was bouncing all over the place.  Now the 2 cores jump to 3.9GHz and stay there, doing what CPB and XFR was meant to.

I think I would discover clear failings with the Windows dealing with threads and general load organisation if I was to run some Linux builds.  However, I am not feeling that the system is in anyway sluggish.


X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 1:48am
It's a me, Mario! Wrong! It's a me, Zlob! Big smile

Some interesting read about Win 10 and Ryzens: http://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update?Fsf62107357=1

My BCLK is also jumping around even with all left @ auto. While not necessary on a crash course it may yield instability with some hardware. Yet this guy (never mind his hair style) does some neat stuff with BCLK. Some interesting videos worth the watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?Fv=4v73oXX1C-Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?Fv=6HJwBMOr0g4

I don't know if it's my BCLK or something else, but when under heavy load in BOINC (SETI mostly) I get random 'hiccups' with the whole system. Just as this guy, Timur Born describes here -> https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/ryzen-strictly-technical.2500572/page-70

I'm getting uber aggravated!

EDIT: wanna see some crazy BCLK stunts? Here! -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/overclocking-amd-ryzen,5011-8.html


Edited by zlobster - 19 Dec 2017 at 2:10am
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VUMeter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 2:00am
@ zlobster:
Call me sceptical, but buildzoid is the same guy who hooked up numerous points on the board to measure voltages and reached a conclusion.  Another guy wired up (correctly) and reported the UEFI was actually damn close and buildzoid had measured wrong.
Some interesting stuff he does post though.

For those URLs to work, just replace "%3F" with a "?" mark.  Auto Html encoding conversion junk.


Edited by VUMeter - 19 Dec 2017 at 2:02am
X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zlobster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2017 at 2:12am
Argh! I can't edit the links now, or at least IDK how.

Also, I said the videos are interesting to watch, not that they are 100% accurate. Smile I thought it goes without saying with all videos.
1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB
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