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AB350 Gaming-iTX/ac - freezing (oh no...)

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Thenightstalker View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 3:47pm
And there's another one freezing ...

Hello everyone,

just finished my iTX Build with r5 2400G on the ASRock AB350 Gaming-iTX/ac and after installing everything and getting into testing everything my system begins freezing. Just out of nowhere ...

System specs:
ASRock AB350 Gaming-iTX/ac - BIOS 4.50
Ryzen 5 2400G APU - Noctua NH L9x65
G.Skill Trident Z 16 GB PC4000 CL19 (running @3300 / CL14 1,4 V)
Samsung 830 128 GB SATA SSD (old but that's what I just had lying around)
Philips 47" LCD TV over HDMI (again, that's what was just there when I was done)
Windows 10 Pro (latest built, just downloaded it 1 week ago)
Latest drivers for ATI Radeion, LAN/WLAN, AUDI etc. (downloaded via ASRock Shop Tool)


First I started playing Assassin's Creed Black Flag which I just had there to try out. It runs OK as far as I can tell but it could use some Ryzen optimizations I guess. However I was fine but there was a specific mission where the game crashed just after completing it, screen stayed black, audio plays then stops and some wired artefacts appear on screen. I played it again and it freezed at the same point.

I went to uefi and changed the RAM timings from CL14 to 15 but doesn't help, it freezes again just at the same point. After 4-5 tries I gave up but because everything else was ok and temps where just fine I thought it's just a bug in the game or an issue with the drivers because it's a quite old game on a quite new system.

After that I wanted to go into stress testing a bit and began to download 3D Mark. It should take quite while because my WifI is bad here in the basement. After a while I looked at the download status and it didn't change anymore, I thought the WiFi just dropped and it's resyncing but when I grab the mouse I noticed it was frozen!?

I thought ok, that may happens with a brand new System where maybe some settings are not optimal or thermals may be an issue because cooler not sitting perfect. I did reset and restarted the download and after another while again same thing but this time I watched it. The connections seemed to be lost - it stopped downloading but not abborting it, just stays at the actual speed but no data coming through. Everything else looked normal, I moved my mouse around to see if it was frozen but it wasn't yet but a few seconds later it did freeze again.

After that I went to the uefi once more and turned the RAM down to it's default timings (CL19) but at 3200 ofc and with default 1.35 V.

After this I had no more freeze for the next half hour before I shut down the system.

I completed the 3D Mark download and ran the 3D Mark Time Spy test. The first time it stopps with an error after the first demo but no details about the error. Maybe my switching between 3D Mark and AMD Master tool caused the problem. I ran it a 2nd time and it was OK! CPU Temperatures where waaay below any critical (about 50-60簞 at max).

One interessting thing, 3D Mark GPU test ran quite bad, I was wondering why but at the end it says my GPU was unknown and drivers not acceptet!? But on the start screen it showed up correctly!? Could there be any connection between the freezes and an eveutal broken gpu driver? I don't think so but who knows...!?

Okay guys, that's quite a bit information but I think you'll need as much Information as possible to find the problem.

Maybe it's just the RAM becaue after setting it to default timings it worked but maybe it was just coincidence. I will do some more testing tonight, I plan to go for RAM testing, they SHOULD make 3200 CL14/14/14/14/34 1.4 Volts and as they are Samsung B-dies I belive they will. Just as the FlareX do. Maybe I need to go down to 2933!? I don't know? Any ideas?

Otherwise I'll try the new Bios, I heard of an WiFI issue, could there be any connections? Because the freezing only happens while downloading over WiFi!?


EDIT:
Upon further investigations I think this freeezes could really be caused by the WiFi bug. I wasn't awate of that bug before because I thought there's just a problem with wifi not working at all (that's what I had read before) but now I found a post on reddit where some people described exactly what happened to me. They say streaming videos or other network heavy things like just downloading a huge file will cause bsod or freeze almost 100% after a couple of minutes or at least half an hour / hour. So that's exactly what I experienced last night while downloading 3D Mark.

This should USUALLY be a quick thing over my cable network but because I was in the basement LUCKILY my WiFi connection was bad enough to keep the download running for about 15-20 minutes.

I say luckily because otherwise I may wouldn't be able to see the freeze and would have a much harder time figuring it out later when the system runs stable but begins to crash out of nothing when, for example a windows update is loading in background or something like that. This way I was able to eliminate parameters quite easy, I'll flash 3,51 tonight and see if this fixes the freezing issue!



Edited by Thenightstalker - 15 Mar 2018 at 4:08pm
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stree View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 7:01pm
Could you state exactly, the chipset and gpu (Radeon) drivers installs?
This must be chipset first and then the Radeon drivers, because if you install the Radeon first, the video drivers in the chipset pack will overwrite with graphics drivers that will give problems.

ASRock X370-ITX BIOS 4.50
R5 2600    Cryorig C7
EVGA GTX 950 75w
2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 2933
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Win 10 Pro 64 1803
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thenightstalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by stree stree wrote:

Could you state exactly, the chipset and gpu (Radeon) drivers installs?
This must be chipset first and then the Radeon drivers, because if you install the Radeon first, the video drivers in the chipset pack will overwrite with graphics drivers that will give problems.



I'd bet I did it in this order mainly also because of my slow WiFi connection.
But I installed all the drivers through the ASRock App Shop.

I remember downloading all drivers except ATI Radeon AiO because I wanted the smaller ones to be done first. Also I knew that display drivers usually should come last because they often interfere with others.

So I think I did it that way. But I can't really tell which drivers the ASRock Utility offered me, there was a HD Audio as well as an Intel Networking device driver and a 3rd one. Are there 2 different Network drivers for LAN and WLAN controllers? In that case there was no specific chipset driver at all. But I used the latest Windows 10 built and did all available updates straight after installing Windows. So they myght already have been installed with the system?

However, I don't think this caused the freezing, maybe that's why AC BF crashed and 3D Mark didn't know my GPU and driver...!?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 9:31pm
that sound more like All-in-one drivers than chipset drivers, and you are very vague about which drivers and in what order.
You need to get this established really before anything else.
latest chipset drivers, complete package, no picking aand choosing, the whole package as is, and only from AMD, nowhere else.
Same with Radeon drivers, only from AMD site, latest version is still 17.7 I think.
MUST install chipset first, then graphics, and you must uninstall current drivers first before intalling latest.

https://support.amd.com/en-us/download


Edited by stree - 15 Mar 2018 at 9:45pm
ASRock X370-ITX BIOS 4.50
R5 2600    Cryorig C7
EVGA GTX 950 75w
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thenightstalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 9:48pm
I was pretty sure everything was/is ok just because there where noc issues, no error messages in my device manager and all devices seem to work as they should.

But you're right, that was a bit to easy.

I didn't chose anything, I installe the ASRock App Store app and in this there's a drivers/updates section where it shows me ATI Graphics drivers, LAN Drivers and HD Audio drivers which I installed because they defenitely where missing.

But I think I should try to do it again the way you described. Therefore I'll unsinstall the ATI Drivers completely, as well as the LAN / WLAN Drivers and download the specific chipset and latest ATI Radeon Drivers directly from ATI.

So I'll get this first:
https://support.amd.com/de-de/download/chipset?os=Windows%2010%20-%2064

Then go there:
https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/Radeon-Software-for-Ryzen-Desktop-Processors-with-Radeon-Vega-Graphics-Release-Notes.aspx

and get the drivers for Ryzen APU Graphics.

After that I should be done, right?
Or do you think a clean Windows 10 reinstall would be better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote stree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 9:51pm
Stick with just chipset and graphics drivers for now, see what you get..........can take it from there......
ASRock X370-ITX BIOS 4.50
R5 2600    Cryorig C7
EVGA GTX 950 75w
2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 2933
960Evo M.2 256GB, Firecuda 1TB
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thenightstalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 10:04pm
K, I'lll give it a try tonight ;-)
I'll also upgrade Bios to 4.51 to fix any possible wlan issues.

Get back here with results.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thenightstalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 3:36pm
Ok, looks like it's working now, kind of.

Here's what I did:
First I downloaded new beta bios and flashed it. Worked fine.
Then I set back the RAM to my "medium" settings > 3200 CL15/15/15/15 @1,4 V
Also set the frame buffer back to 2G where it was.

Then booting up, everything fine. I downloaded the chipset drivers and display drivers from AMD as well as the cleanup utility. No freezes or bsod so far!
After that I ran cleanup utility and removed all display drivers and tools. Then I installed the chipset drivers followed by the display drivers. Always properly restarting after each install, ofc.

After that I downloaded Assassin's Creed Origins which was a 43 GB and everything worked fine. The system fellt into suspend mode once but it turns back on immediately and worked fine.

Now comes the sad part ...
I wanted to try Origins because I've seen a couple of tests where the game ran quite well for an APU and I thought that's great, I'm ok with that performance and want to play it.
The game runs, I played the first part on a medium quality which was quite good except a few drops in fps but mostly OK. Even when you come to town it was playable but then after a while it started to stutter massively, everey 5-10 seconds it seemed to almost stop for 1-2 seconds before going on. I looked at the ingame benchmark and saw the awful result.

I set everything to low (not lowest) hoping it would help but no, same issue! It's like the game ist loading tons of data every few seconds and slows down like hell. That can't be normal!?
The ingame benchmark show a max. FPS of about 40 (medium) and 50 (low) so that's what I was expecting after seeing the tests but the average fps was about 20 because of the massive stuttering every few seconds.

I don't think that's a mainboard issue but maybe a settings issue, I don't know. Can anyone help?

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 5:51pm
Assasin's creed origins is BRUTAL on systems thanks to it's excessive DRM and less than ideal optimization. This is a well known issue that brings any system even remotely falling short of recommended specs to it's knees. Give it a google, there may be some workarounds/tricks to pick things up. 

Generally you will get better results lowering the resolution than dropping settings from medium to low. If there are any view distance sliders or foliage etc you can lower these, this will reduce the amount of data swapped between the CPU, GPU, HDD and RAM. 

On the up side 50fps on low means your APU is working and stretching it's legs. 

You can also try setting your share memory as low as you can. The only benefit of having more dedicated vRAM is that is faster than system RAM, on an APU that is completely moot. When you run out of frame buffer the game swaps to RAM, which, is the same speed as the frame buffer. Given you have 16gb of RAM I doubt it will make much of a difference but it may play better (or worse) with some games. Don't be shy to experiment with different share memory sizes with different games. Some will run better with smaller numbers and others with larger, it all depends on what aspect of the engine is best optimized. Some games optimize RAM swapping to the extreme to facilitate smoother gameplay on older systems, in these cases you will benefit from smaller share memory sizes for example.

  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thenightstalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2018 at 6:57pm
Yeah that's one reason why I chose it to try on this system but not without seeing others trying it first.

There's a couple of tests and videos that stated it runs "OK" even on a 2200g (ofc on low settings) and my overal OK FPS are telling me that the system can run it pretty smoth.

Those drops are horrible, since they appear frequently and without any clear reason. I tried to quit any pograms that may interfere but nothing changes.

However I did some further investigations on that problem and found this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/82wmo3/2400g_users_turbo_off_helps_with_slowdowns_who/

This video shows basically the same behavior I'm experiencing with Origins. The frequenc it appears is different but it's exactly the same thing, smooth FPS, suddenly stuttering for ~3 seconds and again smooth FPS.

They say it's a bug in the CPU/APU turbo mode, which at least sounds plusible. I'll try this today and get back with results.

Thanks


Edited by Thenightstalker - 16 Mar 2018 at 6:58pm
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