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Z170 Extreme6+ slow boot

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svengru View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svengru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Z170 Extreme6+ slow boot
    Posted: 27 Sep 2015 at 1:23am

 

Thanks for your post. We are on the same page... Smile

Your post gave me an idea to try later:
Assuming NVMe code was added and the SDD750 is now initialized the same as a boot device from the system BIOS... we might just have found a possible reason for the increased post time.
I disabled it in the boot priority, but this might have no impact on the initialization.
 
I now update the SSD750's firmware and will run another test with BIOS 1.5 to see if it has improved.
 
-Sven
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2015 at 1:15am
Originally posted by svengru svengru wrote:

Hi Parsec,
 
I am not sure that you read my posts right.
 
I am keeping the config the same (including the SSD750 and all BIOS settings).
1.2 is about 3 sec faster than 1.4 & 1.5. 3sec is close to my complete OS boot time of just under 5 secs, so YES, I think it is something Asrock should consider investigating.
 
Modern UEFI firmware has good instrumentation and it should be relatively easy to understand which UEFI driver is causing the delay. It's certainly not the ME firmware as a downgrade to 1.2 keeps the new ME version.
 
-Sven


No, I understand and agree with everything you wrote. I was simply commenting that the 750 SSD is known, when used as an OS drive, to be relatively slower to boot an OS.

I know your configuration did not change after the UEFI updates, but I was surprised that your POST time was apparently not slowed down by the use of the 750, even as just a data drive.

UEFI/BIOS updates may contain more changes than those listed in the Description for the UEFI file on its download page. That might include a change to the POST procedure that initializes the drives in the PC. Given how new NVMe drives are, I would not be surprised if a change to the POST procedure for dealing with NVMe drives was added.

It is very interesting that the 750 only seems slow to start when loading/booting an OS. The overall startup times that users report when using a 750 as an OS drive are much longer than your POST and OS boot time. I'm happy to see you separating those two things, as most users do not.

It has been said in reviews of the 750 that Intel did not optimize its firmware for high 4K random performance. The benchmark results for 4K performance are not really poor IMO, so the slow overall startup time when using a 750 as an OS drive does not make sense IMO.

Your information about your experience with the NVMe 750 is useful, and frankly quite different than everything else I have ever read about them. I'm not saying you are wrong! Your information is another piece of the 750 startup time puzzle, that I am grateful to have.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svengru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Sep 2015 at 1:14am
Thanks a lot. I am not booting from it, but still did the update. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote fdisker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 11:58pm
The 750 just received a firmware update specifically addressing slow boot times.  Not sure if it will help in your system if you're not booting from it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svengru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 11:47pm
Hi Parsec,
 
I am not sure that you read my posts right.
 
I am keeping the config the same (including the SSD750 and all BIOS settings).
1.2 is about 3 sec faster than 1.4 & 1.5. 3sec is close to my complete OS boot time of just under 5 secs, so YES, I think it is something Asrock should consider investigating.
 
Modern UEFI firmware has good instrumentation and it should be relatively easy to understand which UEFI driver is causing the delay. It's certainly not the ME firmware as a downgrade to 1.2 keeps the new ME version.
 
-Sven
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by svengru svengru wrote:

I just did some more test and installed 1.5 as well.
 
Post times from power off are:
 
BIOS 1.2: 5.2 sec
BIOS 1.4 & 1.5: 8.1 sec
 
I tested this with HHD and with SSD only and get the exact same times.
The SSDs used are an SM951 AHCI as boot and an Intel SSD750 as data drive. The HDD is a WD Black 1GB (again I disconnected it for the tests).
 
BIOS 1.4 and 1.5 are much slower for my config in terms of post (despite 1.4 claiming an improvement).
 
What are other seeing in terms of post time?
 

So you consider 2.9 seconds as "much slower" for your configuration? The Intel 750 is known to be a slow starting or long POST device. Users are complaining about that in many forums.

If your POST time increased by three seconds after adding an Intel 750 SSD, you are very lucky. Normally it is much longer than that.

What was added in the UEFI for NVMe configuration in UEFI 1.50?

So UEFI 1.50 does nothing with the Intel ME, as I said.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svengru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2015 at 11:38am
I just did some more test and installed 1.5 as well.
 
Post times from power off are:
 
BIOS 1.2: 5.2 sec
BIOS 1.4 & 1.5: 8.1 sec
 
I tested this with HHD and with SSD only and get the exact same times.
The SSDs used are an SM951 AHCI as boot and an Intel SSD750 as data drive. The HDD is a WD Black 1GB (again I disconnected it for the tests).
 
BIOS 1.4 and 1.5 are much slower for my config in terms of post (despite 1.4 claiming an improvement).
 
What are other seeing in terms of post time?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svengru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 10:25pm
The ME is the Intel Management Engine firmware which is also responsible for "creating" the firmware based TPM 2.0.
 
Post time increase significantly from 1.2 to 1.4 and I ensure 100% that all setting were correct. There were no additional settings in 1.4 that should impact post time.
 
Would love to hear from others on their experience.
 
-Sven
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by svengru svengru wrote:

I am running into a similar issue with this mainboard.
The post time increased from just under 5s to 8s when I updated from BIOS version 1.2 to 1.4.
Going back to 1.2 solved this issue.
 
I reset and reconfigured the BIOS setting to the exact same ones for both versions.
 
Has anybody tried version 1.5?
 
I am hesitant to just try 1.5 since the upgrade also resets the ME config and thus the fTPM which makes me lose important settings in the OS like virtual smartcards.
 
-Sven


The description for UEFI version 1.50 is:

1. Improve DRAM compatibility.
2. Improve OC function.
3. Add NVME Configuration.

NVMe is Non-Volatile Memory Express. The NVMe configuration is for the new NVMe SSDs that are beginning to be available.

Is the ME you are talking about related to NVMe, or is ME the Intel Management Engine firmware or software?

If it's the Management Engine software, then you have nothing to worry about. Or do you know that the ME firmware is also updated in 1.50?

I don't have your board, so I can't comment on UEFI 1.40 being slower to POST than 1.20. The ironic part is the description for 1.40 is:

1. Improve boot time.
2. Update Microcode, ME, RC.
3. Improve DRAM compatibility.

"Improve boot time" might also include the POST time, which you say is slower now. Did you notice any new options in the UEFI that might cause the slower POST if not configured correctly? Did you use the Fast Boot option with UEFI 1.20?

I see that UEFI 1.40 includes an ME update. That is not the same as the NVMe configuration update in 1.50.

Or did you just type the wrong version number?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote svengru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 10:07am
I am running into a similar issue with this mainboard.
The post time increased from just under 5s to 8s when I updated from BIOS version 1.2 to 1.4.
Going back to 1.2 solved this issue.
 
I reset and reconfigured the BIOS setting to the exact same ones for both versions.
 
Has anybody tried version 1.5?
 
I am hesitant to just try 1.5 since the upgrade also resets the ME config and thus the fTPM which makes me lose important settings in the OS like virtual smartcards.
 
-Sven
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