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X470 Taichi: mem frequency locked with Samsung OEM

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neur0cide View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neur0cide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 4:58pm
Thanks again, kerberos! Really great advice!

@gizmic
It's not. All the OEM sticks I tried worked fine right out of the box with standard settings (i.e. fastest JEDEC profile, e.g. 2400-17-17-17 for the C-die). When I change memory frequency and nothing else to e.g. DDR4-1866 the board won't post. There is no memory training taking place, which would determine if a RAM OC fails or not. The board just sits there, does absolutely nothing and is totally unresponsive. Don't confuse POST with boot.
It doesn't matter if I go high or low on memory frequency, raise voltages or alter the termination resistance - the board won't post in any case and I need to clear CMOS. Btw clearCMOS is the only button that keeps working. Power and reset buttons are unresponsive.
Regular retail sticks with XMP profiles do not force this behaviour. With those you have to select the XMP profile to unlock the clock multiplier and you are then free to OC with no issues (though the X470 Taichi Ultimate is a terrible overclocker when it comes to RAM).
The difference between the OEM sticks and the retail ones is that the OEMs don't come with an XMP profile. The clock multiplier is unlocked right from the beginning but changing it leads to the aforementioned issue.
This is clearly a bug and it was also present in the initial BIOS (1.20).

The board does boot when I change BCLK, but you don't want me to raise BCLK to 140 Mhz to get a decent OC, don't you?
I can change the timings and everything else for that matter and it does boot fine, but it again fails to post as soon as I touch the clock multiplier.


Edited by neur0cide - 31 Jul 2018 at 5:09pm
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gizmic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gizmic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 6:18pm
XMP doesn't dictate clock multiplier 

as for the bclk changes to 1mhz will just prove mem freq is changeable. 

i can make same symptoms fiddling around with rams no post power botton unresponsive. That would require clear cmos.

I do have experience with OEM & naked kits overclocks just fine heck even UTT's
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neur0cide View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neur0cide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 11:21pm
Sure it does. XMP always comes with a memory frequency.

The memory frequency certainly is not a problem. These sticks can clock over 1000 MT/s higher on Ryzen and other retail kits with XMP present can be overclocked just fine on the Taichi.
It's the DRAM Frequency setting in conjunction with the non XMP sticks, that is somehow at fault here.
As I pointed out above the Taichi is handling XMP and non-XMP sticks differently. With XMP sticks the DRAM Frequency setting is locked until I select an XMP profile. With non-XMP sticks DRAM Frequency is unlocked right from the start. So for me the most obvious logical explanation is that something is at fault with the Taichi's handling of non-XMP sticks.
Of course it might be some general incompatibility with Samsung sticks, but I'd consider this a bug too.

But please tell me how this is supposed to be a failed overclock if I don't overclock at all?
You either don't understand the problem or are not able to read. So I try to make it as simple as I can:
I start with Fail Safe Settings (default settings) and with only the automatic JEDEC profile active, which is 2400-17-17-17 @1.2v for those C-die sticks. I then alter only DRAM Frequency and the issue is there. This happens with every frequency I select, be it DDR4-2800 or DDR4-1866 or any other.
Everything else I can manipulate at will but only as long as I remain at DDR4-2400. I can lower the timings to 12-12-12-12 no problem, I can raise the voltages no problem, change BCLK, set procODT and the Rtt dividers - it all boots up nicely as long as I don't touch those DDR4-2400.
This is the same with all OEM sticks I tested: 3 C-die DR kits, 1 SR C-die kit, 1 SR B-die kit

I'm glad that you don't have the same problem with Samsungs OEM sticks on your Taichi, but that doesn't change the fact, that it is not working on my end.
Perhaps you can point me to a solution instead of accusing me of bad overclocking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gizmic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2018 at 12:27pm
XMP comes with memory frequency the bios will load the closes Mem frequency vs mem timing and works it way down from Xmp to Jedec it doesn't look at the memory clock multiplier

and you should understand all kits dont run in the same timings or freq from the factory even if they are the same type of chips which is why you can see sammy dies ranging from 2400-4000+

as to point you in the right direction the fastest 16X2 gskill 3200 in the qvl list only runs at 2933 assuming these kits are C-dies

you could just set its XMP settings and see if it boots. If it doesn't it may need more voltage or simply look for a lower mem freq xmp in the qvl list and run those.

If it makes you feel better i cannot boot with my kit's xmp settings at 3200 CL18 but it will revert to jedec CL14 or CL16 depending on what the mem training feels like doing. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neur0cide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 12:45am
You really don't understand what I'm saying. Dead

I do not want to use XMP settings. All I want to do is change the clock multiplier for my C-die sticks. And btw memory frequency = BCLK * DRAM clock multiplier, so yeah, the multiplier is in the XMP.
There are no retail kits, that come with C-die. Samsung is using these ICs exclusively on their own OEM sticks. I have 10 dual rank C-die sticks here and I know perfectly well what they are capable of and what timings they require, since I have tested them all extensively. On my C6H six of them do 3466-16-19-19-1T @1.365v in a 1DPC config (100% stable). Over the course of the last 14 months I've been through roundabout 60 different DDR4 kits. I know my way around when it comes to overclocking RAM on Ryzen.

So for the very last time: There is no OC in place. Changing the DRAM clock multiplier does not work for Samsung OEM sticks on my X470 Taichi Ultimate.
Originally posted by neur0cide neur0cide wrote:

Whenever I raise or lower memory frequency the Taichi won't post.
Originally posted by neur0cide neur0cide wrote:

When I change memory frequency and nothing else to e.g. DDR4-1866 the board won't post.
Originally posted by neur0cide neur0cide wrote:

Not even if I lower the clock multiplier to DDR4-1866 or anything else.
Originally posted by neur0cide neur0cide wrote:

This happens with every frequency I select, be it DDR4-2800 or DDR4-1866 or any other.

Please don't make me repeat this again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 1:08am
can you say that again please...................................


ok so have you considered using a program to flash a higher spd to the firmware

maybe its just a bug in bios not playing nicely with the spd being changed in bios
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

3800X, powercolor reddevil vega64, gskill tridentz3866, taichix370, evga750watt gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gizmic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 11:06am
hayz .... i know that you problem is you can't change DRAM clock muls and i'm telling you to use a similar Ryzen XMP profile to boot with whatever Dram clock multiplier you want to run. I suggested this because your hard lock problem is similar when i use a setting/timing that my kits/imc refuse to run. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neur0cide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 4:26pm
Oh, I see. Sorry!! Handshake

I'll prolly use the timings that I have already identified. They work for all C-die and also transfer well to different motherboards. Just tRFC I'll keep very relaxed, since the Taichi demands a whopping 70 ns more for the refresh cycle than my C6H with retail B-die.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gizmic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2018 at 4:47pm
I think start better with other reference XMP is better even if the same kit is tried and tested on another system. As you already know Taichi is finicky

on the side note I've hit the wall on my current kit on this mobo which can easily doing 4000+ on the blue team. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote neur0cide Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2018 at 4:44am
I bought a Thaiphoon Burner licence and added an XMP profile with my C-die timings to the worst stick in my collection. Worked like a charm.
I can now select the XMP profile on the Taichi and in consequence clock that stick to whatever frequency I want an set the timings to my liking.

Btw, I made an observational error before. Although the Taichi did let me change and save the timings on the non-XMP sticks, the settings were not applied.

So in summary: If there is no XMP profile present on your DIMMs, the X470 Taichi Ultimate won't allow any form of overclocking besides raising the bus clock.

I'd like to find out, if this is true by design for all X470 Taichi Ultimates and perhaps for other ASRock motherboards as well or if this a bug, that only affects certain boards in particular constellations.


Edited by neur0cide - 03 Aug 2018 at 7:18am
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