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My QVL Memory Kit "Silently" removed from QVL List

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PatriotVipers View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 12:53am

Ah the shenanigans in the world of computer hardware.

Rewind to a not so distant past. I purchased an ASRock AB350M Pro4 motherboard. I populated the motherboard with my Patriot Vipers kit (PV416G300C6K) in a 2x8GB dual-channel mode. My kit was listed as compatible with this motherboard @ 2933MHz. Wonderful.

Fast forward to today as I check ASRock's QVL memory list again to see if the list has "grown". Much to my surprise, the list has actually "shrunk" by at least 1 memory kit anyway. What kit was removed? The Patriot Vipers 16GB (2x8GB) memory kit. Mine.

This is highly surprising to me and I'm not real happy about it. However, I think it was the right thing for them to do in the end. Because my chips never ran reliably @ 2933MHz no matter what I did.

I blame Patriot for this pain I've had to endure more than anybody. They sold 2 different sets of memory under the same model number using different memory dies.

I'm guessing ASRock got way too many complaints about listing the model # as being compatible from those who had purchased the memory kit with the incompatible memory dies.

Does this removal of compatible memory kits happen very often? I'm guessing that it's a rare occurrence. It took me by surprise but as I said earlier in my post...Good on ASRock for doing the right thing. Patriot should be ashamed of themselves.
 


Edited by PatriotVipers - 26 Aug 2018 at 1:05am
System: AMD 2200G, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 16GB(2x8GB) 3000MHz Patriot Vipers (running @ 2134MHz *crying*).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 1:00am
to be fair
a few of the ram makers *have* to change where they can source chips for each production run
corsair for exapmle have used different chips on same model ram (in some cases they have stated a different revision though when they do)

it usually goes un-noticed with either or both intel users and a more forgiving bios, and so many sets of ram are simply not even set with xmp in bios (crazy as it sounds but true i know so many cases of ram not even being set at xmp in systems)
maybe due to a bios update and then lack of manually setting it after or simply user plugging it in and not even knowing they have to activate xmp

with regards to you yes you do seem to be unfortunate, have you tried maybe getting 2666 with ryzen dram calculator ?
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PatriotVipers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 1:11am
Originally posted by datonyb datonyb wrote:

to be fair
a few of the ram makers *have* to change where they can source chips for each production run
corsair for exapmle have used different chips on same model ram (in some cases they have stated a different revision though when they do)

it usually goes un-noticed with either or both intel users and a more forgiving bios, and so many sets of ram are simply not even set with xmp in bios (crazy as it sounds but true i know so many cases of ram not even being set at xmp in systems)
maybe due to a bios update and then lack of manually setting it after or simply user plugging it in and not even knowing they have to activate xmp

with regards to you yes you do seem to be unfortunate, have you tried maybe getting 2666 with ryzen dram calculator ?

But what's not really fair is that Patriot makes it almost impossible to determine which revision an end-user may have purchased. It's not something printed on the packaging...anywhere.

Okay, you had to buy new memory dies from a different manufacturer. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend your not trying to do a bait-and-switch to make more money. Print that information on the packaging, and on the memory stickers on the physical chips, and make it easily reachable/findable/viewable in your memory's SPD information. I never could find it using various low-level software programs that an end-user shouldn't even be messing with.

See this post I posted in the past:


Hmmm, the link above doesn't work when I click it. The question mark (?) changes and causes a 404 error. What does "NoFollow is applied to all links from this forum" actually mean?

Edit: To answer your question, I tried lots of stuff and I'm frankly tired of trying at this point. I'm just going to buy a new memory kit that is guaranteed to be AB350 compatible from ASRocks...**cough**...updated QVL list and hope it doesn't change again in 3 weeks.
And I'm actually looking at a Patriot kit. I must be stupid. But it's a good price so.

Although, if I could get the memory running @ 2666MHz (and running stable) it would be better than running @ 2133MHz like I've had to do since I bought these crappy chips.



Edited by PatriotVipers - 26 Aug 2018 at 1:28am
System: AMD 2200G, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 16GB(2x8GB) 3000MHz Patriot Vipers (running @ 2134MHz *crying*).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 2:08am
it still seems

the better way t go is the sticks with samsung b dies
it does seem these are only fitted to some brand sticks above 3200mhz but thats not 100%

but i dont know any fitted to below 3200 for sure

ive been lucky with ram
first set i found on an old uk based pc parts website that didnt quite follow price trends so i grabbed them for about 75% of major player websites
second set of ram was very very lucky major high street pc shop closing down and grabbed 4x8gb kit of 3866mhz ,for 瞿330 then sold off 2 sticks for 瞿200

so now i have 2x8gb owing me around $140 ish (瞿130)

both sets were not on the qvl list ever
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PatriotVipers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 3:16am

From all the reading I've done over the past few months after "switching teams" (going from Intel to AMD) I've heard nothing but good things about the Samsung B-die memory chips.

However, if one goes by ASRocks QVL memory listing (as of right now) there are lots of other good choices for memory kits that aren't specifically outfitted with Samsung B-dies. At least, if they are, it's not shown by ASRock in the QVL listing.

All other things being equal, if I can achieve the speeds I actually pay for then I'll be happy. Regardless of who actually made the chips.

*EDIT*: It seems my memory kit wasn't removed after all. I think I was reading the wrong page for a bit. There are two QVL lists, one specifically for (Raven Ridge). OOpps!

I did look at the entire list again regarding what you said about memory manufacturers sourcing from different chip suppliers. There was 1 stand-out among Corsair stating a specific model number but specifying it be a specific version.

Patriot stood out more than anybody with 8 different model numbers that must have specific types of chips to work. Cry


Edited by PatriotVipers - 26 Aug 2018 at 3:24am
System: AMD 2200G, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 16GB(2x8GB) 3000MHz Patriot Vipers (running @ 2134MHz *crying*).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xhue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 3:23am
Literally 3 minutes on Google will reveal to anyone that when you put 'Ryzen'  and 'RAM'  in one sentence, it always equals 'Samsung B-die'.

Patriots have been notoriously bad, even more so with Ryzen. Well, of course you won't see it on their label, but the whole Internet screams of how not good they are for Ryzen.

On the topic - you got a bad draw of luck. Try RMA the RAM (hehe) or just put it on Craigslist or something and get some decent ones. Well, your AB350M suggests a budget build, but as the old sayings go - there is no such thing as 'cheap build'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PatriotVipers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 3:30am
Originally posted by xhue xhue wrote:

Literally 3 minutes on Google will reveal to anyone that when you put 'Ryzen'  and 'RAM'  in one sentence, it always equals 'Samsung B-die'.

Patriots have been notoriously bad, even more so with Ryzen. Well, of course you won't see it on their label, but the whole Internet screams of how not good they are for Ryzen.

On the topic - you got a bad draw of luck. Try RMA the RAM (hehe) or just put it on Craigslist or something and get some decent ones. Well, your AB350M suggests a budget build, but as the old sayings go - there is no such thing as 'cheap build'.

But that's a myth. If Ryzen "required" Samsung B-dies to reach 2933MHz (let alone 3200MHz) AMD would have so stated. And secondly, ASRocks QVL memory (Raven Ridge) would be meaningless also.

It clearly shows that you can buy memory kits without Samsung B-dies and reach the max speeds of 2933MHz that are officially supported by Ryzen.

And yes, my motherboard is not the most expensive but it's not the cheapest either. It's actually middle tier. The purpose of the QVL is to let consumers know what memory kits work with the AB350M motherboards. The kits listed on ASRocks memory support page will work because ASRock has tested these kits specifically:
, providing you read all the fine print like model "revisions" or specific numbers in parentheses with regards to Patriot memory kits. In other words, the model number alone is not enough to leave all doubt aside that you bought (or are buying) the right kit. In these rare cases, check the revisions or extra details.

A bad draw of luck? Or Patriot trying to pass the buck on to unsuspecting consumers like I was at the time of purchase, almost 3 years ago? I bought this kit when DDR4 just hit the map. It's a 16GB (2x8Gb) DDR4 3000MHz kit for $89.99. I've used it for about 3 years now but only ever really ran it at 2133MHz because I was such a noob at memory speeds. I put these memory chips in motherboards along with CPUs that didn't even support those high speeds.

Still, I'll bet I can sell it today for more than I paid 3 years ago. So, not the worst luck one could have.



Edited by PatriotVipers - 26 Aug 2018 at 3:48am
System: AMD 2200G, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 16GB(2x8GB) 3000MHz Patriot Vipers (running @ 2134MHz *crying*).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xhue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 4:39am
Originally posted by PatriotVipers PatriotVipers wrote:

But that's a myth. If Ryzen "required" Samsung B-dies to reach 2933MHz (let alone 3200MHz) AMD would have so stated. And secondly, ASRocks QVL memory (Raven Ridge) would be meaningless also.


I'm yet to see a Ryzen reach 3200MHz on non B-dies, let alone run it 24/7. Setting my G.Skill @ stable 3200MHz took me as much as selecting the XMP profile in BIOS.

Also, not all mem that 'ticks' at 3200 will 'tick' at 2933 too.

Originally posted by PatriotVipers PatriotVipers wrote:

It clearly shows that you can buy memory kits without Samsung B-dies and reach the max speeds of 2933MHz that are officially supported by Ryzen.


1st Gen Ryzens are only officially running 2400MHz if I recall correctly.

Originally posted by PatriotVipers PatriotVipers wrote:

Still, I'll bet I can sell it today for more than I paid 3 years ago. So, not the worst luck one could have.

True, I'd have done it a ling time ago if I was you. Dem Ryzens love great memory speeds. Bad thing is now good RAM cost an arm and a leg.

P.S. you don't really expect AMD stating on the box their memory controllers are rather picky when memory type is concerned? Word on the streets is AMD are still trying to fix the AGESA mess they've created.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PatriotVipers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 4:50am
@XHue,

True, 1st generation Ryzen's maximum supported memory speeds are a bit less than Raven Ridge's (Ryzen+). Although, I believe it's 2666MHz for 1st generation Ryzen's and 2933MHz for Ryzen+. I think you lose 266MHz anytime you populate 4 slots versus just 2. So on 1st-gen Ryzens with all 4 memory slots populated, your probably right.

With regards to AMD coming out and stating that Samsung B-Die's are required to reach 3200MHz, I doubt they would do that. So your right about that.

I just feel like the ASRock QVL memory list is the best way to make one's purchasing decisions. Provided that you watch those anomalies that Corsair and Patriot throw in the mix.

If it's on the QVL and tested at that speed you should get that speed.

I would love to purchase a memory set that uses Samsung B-Dies and runs @ 3200MHz. But I guess I'll have to decide whether the price premiums are worth the extra speed or not.

I'm not a hardcore gamer so I may be happy with running @ 2933MHz or 2800MHz.

Can you share the brand/model number of the 3200MHz kit you are using? Are you using 2 chips or 4?



Edited by PatriotVipers - 26 Aug 2018 at 5:06am
System: AMD 2200G, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 16GB(2x8GB) 3000MHz Patriot Vipers (running @ 2134MHz *crying*).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote xhue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2018 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by PatriotVipers PatriotVipers wrote:

@XHue,

Can you share the brand/model number of the 3200MHz kit you are using? Are you using 2 chips or 4?



Before I do that let's summarize - Patriot screwed everyone royally by putting various junk under the same SKU; (I never thought I'd say that but) ASRock are not at fault here, they even corrected the QVL, so no more ppl are getting screwed;

On your question - I'm using a kit of 2 G.Skill Flare X F4-3200C14-8GFX (https://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/16GB-G-Skill-Flare-X-schwarz-DDR4-3200-DIMM-CL14-Dual-Kit_1157580.html).

These are dual-ranked modules, occupying 2 of my 4 DIMM slots. They run super smooth and super fast.

Also, note that my memory was not in the QVL for X370 Taichi at the time I was purchasing. I did some Googling and all guys there claimed that if you have Ryzen - that's the memory for you. I took my chances and haven't looked back ever since.

No matter what brand or model you decide to stick to, choose the smallest possible CL-number aka CAS latency. For example CL11 @ 2400MHz has same performance as CL18 @ 3600MHz. Do some reading on the topic if you wish.


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