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Low performance for my PCIe SSD Intel 900P

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Katana1074 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katana1074 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 6:18am
if you used slot PCIe5 you optane will be limited to pcie 2.0 speed....

You will probably be better off with your graphics card in slot PCIe2 and your optane 900p in slot PCIe3,this will give 8 pcie 3.0 lanes to you graphics card and 4 pcie 3.0 lanes to you optane 900p...

Hope this helps,

regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cx5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 10:29am
Originally posted by Nightlane Nightlane wrote:

   https://www.amazon.co.uk/MZHOU-V009S-PLUS-PCIE-Riser-Card-Black16x-NVME/dp/B09FPSC28Y/



Hello @Nightlane,

M.2 socket 2 is gen2 only and through chipset x370promontory, slow and latency.

No, don't buy the MZHOU-V009S, the signal will go through USB3 port and latency will be very high. Also the cable too long latency high, signal lost, throughput drop. Motherboard vendor don't put M.2 right next to CPU for no reason!!!

Buy any of below combinations[1] or [2]single_item_most_convenient_but possible latency.

Pre-requisite for combinations[1], the RAM height will clash with Optane900p in riser position, hence need to buy 2nd riser to clear low heigh ram (example Corsair vengence no RGB), but still clash with high height ram (example GALAX HOF 3600).

combinations[1] = cheapest & shortest PCB trace, supposingly least latency, but no mounting, need custom make DIY. Buy a M.2convertPCIe4x_riser_item[1A] plus a extend height PCIe4x_to_PCIe4x_item[1B] =

item[1A] = costs US$ 1.5 in China
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861465503.html
https://minerparts.com/product/pcie-4x-to-ngff-m-2-adapter-with-4-pin-power-cable/
https://www.ureach-estore.com/products/u-reach-m-2-nvme-to-pcie-adapter-m-2-m-key-to-pcie-4x

make sure can see all the PCB signal trace for full pcie 4x, not some cheap adaptor only 1x which has very few real signal trace on the PCB. Above 1st link can't see traces hence beware, 2nd and 3rd links are all full 4x traces.

item[1B] = costs US$ 1.0 in China
http://eshop.sintech.cn/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_13&products_id=603

total PCB trace extended around 2 inches versus a direct M.2_SSD. Literally equivalent to optane900p installed in PCIe2slot.


[2]single_item = costs US$ 15 in China
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.13.2fa25e1cEeXfro&id=609335122412&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail

I think R42UF_4.0 and R42UL_4.0 would be perfect match. Get the shortest 5cm length, which adds a total 3 inches PCB trace, I suspect might loose out to optane900p install in PCIe2slot.

R42UF reversed the pcie socket, I think nearly impossible to fit the optane900p in case.

R42MF needs to flip the cable 180 degrees, then optane900p installed upside down..... don't like.

The only reason for doing all these is to retain PCIe3slot for 8xlane through convertor card for extra two M.2 full 4xGen3 etc direct to CPU. Can even hardware RAID two M.2 full 4xGen3 get 7000Mb/s theoretical read/write. https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Adapter-RIITOP-Support-22110/dp/B08P57G1JW

or get cheaper two M.2 and use software raid instead.

beware not to buy card of two sockets M.2 where one is SATA the other is NVMe. When it's too cheap is usually SATA + NVMe.

personally I want more airflow for GPU, hence I bought a single socket M.2 convert PCIe without bracket hence cannot mount to case for maximum airflow around = https://www.axagon.eu/en/produkty/pcem2-1u

The pcie slot is full 16x for strength rigidity because not mounting to case.

If use short 4x only pcie, worry the weight of SSD heatsink might sag it down in long term.

If [2]single_item using 15cm long cable although can nicely mount to side casing showoff but might be very high latency.
x370taichi@3.50gen4
AX750 Optane900P SN770
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cx5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 10:47am
Hi @Nightlane,

Me too, also am shopping for 5800x3D in used market.

Lisa SU said there will be life extention for AM4, hence I'm waiting to see what new surprises might come or NOT come ???

Hence I'm not changing motherbaord another year or two.

Regarding memory what are you running now? if possible please use zentiming software to screen capture all timings and voltages in order for us to make detailed reply whether to upgrade or not or overclock.

https://zentimings.protonrom.com/

I'm running CMK32GX4M2B3000C15, XMP not compatible, hence using 1usmus dram calculator and am luck that it gives full set of timing overclockable to 3333mhz.
x370taichi@3.50gen4
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nightlane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Katana1074 Katana1074 wrote:

Hi there I have an Intel 900p pcie ad in card they are pcie 3.0 based

here's a link to my asssd score if it helps any...

https://imgur.com/mmceU7V


Thank you, I am looking to have that type of performance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nightlane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by cx5 cx5 wrote:

Hi @Nightlane,
Regarding memory what are you running now? if possible please use zentiming software to screen capture all timings and voltages in order for us to make detailed reply whether to upgrade or not or overclock.

https://zentimings.protonrom.com/

I'm running CMK32GX4M2B3000C15, XMP is not compatible, hence using 1usmus dram calculator and am luck that it gives full set of timing overclockable to 3333mhz.

I am running 4 x G. Skill F4-3200C14-8GFX for a total of 32GB. It should be this one: https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/170/1535961634/F4-3200C14D-16GFX-Specification

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072857089107566663/image.png

But I have checked it out with the zemtiming as you suggested and seems bad:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072856420913008660/image.png

Checking I have found 2 other interesting apps:
The dram calculator for ryzen:
Recommendations:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072860037309005956/image.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072860354692005968/image.png

Current benchmark:
https://discord.com/channels/125359661540048896/1072856367632760942/1072863024345518091


With thaiphoon I checked that my memory chips are done by samsung. And I could not do capture as it crashed and it does not run anymore. I suppose I have to restart the computer.
I think I can overclock both the CPU and the memory without too much problems (I hope, haha)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nightlane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Feb 2023 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by cx5 cx5 wrote:

Originally posted by Nightlane Nightlane wrote:

   https://www.amazon.co.uk/MZHOU-V009S-PLUS-PCIE-Riser-Card-Black16x-NVME/dp/B09FPSC28Y/



Hello @Nightlane,

M.2 socket 2 is gen2 only and through chipset x370promontory, slow and latency.

No, don't buy the MZHOU-V009S, the signal will go through USB3 port and latency will be very high. Also the cable too long latency high, signal lost, throughput drop. Motherboard vendor don't put M.2 right next to CPU for no reason!!!

Buy any of below combinations[1] or [2]single_item_most_convenient_but possible latency.

Pre-requisite for combinations[1], the RAM height will clash with Optane900p in riser position, hence need to buy 2nd riser to clear low heigh ram (example Corsair vengence no RGB), but still clash with high height ram (example GALAX HOF 3600).

combinations[1] = cheapest & shortest PCB trace, supposingly least latency, but no mounting, need custom make DIY. Buy a M.2convertPCIe4x_riser_item[1A] plus a extend height PCIe4x_to_PCIe4x_item[1B] =

item[1A] = costs US$ 1.5 in China
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32861465503.html
https://minerparts.com/product/pcie-4x-to-ngff-m-2-adapter-with-4-pin-power-cable/
https://www.ureach-estore.com/products/u-reach-m-2-nvme-to-pcie-adapter-m-2-m-key-to-pcie-4x

make sure can see all the PCB signal trace for full pcie 4x, not some cheap adaptor only 1x which has very few real signal trace on the PCB. Above 1st link can't see traces hence beware, 2nd and 3rd links are all full 4x traces.

item[1B] = costs US$ 1.0 in China
http://eshop.sintech.cn/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_13&products_id=603

total PCB trace extended around 2 inches versus a direct M.2_SSD. Literally equivalent to optane900p installed in PCIe2slot.


[2]single_item = costs US$ 15 in China
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.13.2fa25e1cEeXfro&id=609335122412&ns=1&abbucket=9#detail

I think R42UF_4.0 and R42UL_4.0 would be perfect match. Get the shortest 5cm length, which adds a total 3 inches PCB trace, I suspect might loose out to optane900p install in PCIe2slot.

R42UF reversed the pcie socket, I think nearly impossible to fit the optane900p in case.

R42MF needs to flip the cable 180 degrees, then optane900p installed upside down..... don't like.

The only reason for doing all these is to retain PCIe3slot for 8xlane through convertor card for extra two M.2 full 4xGen3 etc direct to CPU. Can even hardware RAID two M.2 full 4xGen3 get 7000Mb/s theoretical read/write. https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Adapter-RIITOP-Support-22110/dp/B08P57G1JW

or get cheaper two M.2 and use software raid instead.

beware not to buy card of two sockets M.2 where one is SATA the other is NVMe. When it's too cheap is usually SATA + NVMe.

personally I want more airflow for GPU, hence I bought a single socket M.2 convert PCIe without bracket hence cannot mount to case for maximum airflow around = https://www.axagon.eu/en/produkty/pcem2-1u

The pcie slot is full 16x for strength rigidity because not mounting to case.

If use short 4x only pcie, worry the weight of SSD heatsink might sag it down in long term.

If [2]single_item using 15cm long cable although can nicely mount to side casing showoff but might be very high latency.

Wow, thank you!!!

ok, I am analyzing all the combinations...

First, the M2 converter, I see that many come with the data cable connector as a power input. Can this cause problems or something? I have read about limited Amps there, etc.

well, I guess I will have to get that pcie extension... the next two photos are part of my computer insides (I like colors :-p ):
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072872144666628126/IMG20230208142940.jpg
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072872144997990461/IMG20230208142948.jpg

On amazon (because of the 24h delivery) I only find the 20cm cable ones like this: https://www.amazon.es/alargador-PCI-Express-hembra-Extender-Graphics/dp/B08R384PNQ or this: https://www.amazon.es/extensi%C3%B3n-PCI-Express-elevador-adaptador-tarjeta/dp/B08R37CGBB or maybe this one (same vendor, ut the PCB connections are visible :-) https://www.amazon.es/MZHOU-Adaptador-Express-Compatible-Windows/dp/B09C1BK164



But, how can I fix the 900p drive safely so it does not move? hmmm... maybe use one of those PCIE cable extensors so I can try to immobilize it in a different wat? hmmmm... looking for my plastic cable wrappers...





R42UF_4.0 and R42UL_4.0 are nice, bue... waiting a month for them to arrive!!!

My next computer case will be an open one, maybe 3d printed :-p OMG... hahah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nightlane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 8:05am
ok! I finally found this beauty:
https://www.amazon.es/dp/B08C7YBRFC

Thank you!

I will check it out as soon as it arrives :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cx5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 9:26am
Originally posted by Nightlane Nightlane wrote:


Wow, thank you!!!

First, the M2 converter, I see that many come with the data cable connector as a power input. Can this cause problems or something? I have read about limited Amps there, etc.
=or maybe this one (same vendor, ut the PCB connections are visible :-) https://www.amazon.es/MZHOU-Adaptador-Express-Compatible-Windows/dp/B09C1BK164


https://www.amazon.es/extensi%C3%B3n-PCI-Express-elevador-adaptador-tarjeta/dp/B08R37CGBB



You're welcome !!!

the M2 convertor extra socket is actually real POWER, not signal, hence no limited amperes problem. It's the same type of power for SATA HDD SSD, signal socket are smaller than power socket.

All of your new shopping links are correct and usable hence no need comment from me, except one is wrong, hence I quote the link above, it's problem is pcie 1x lane only, not full 4x lane, see the socket is very short missing many pins.

As for the 20cm cable extention, it will cause high latency, if you want maximum performance, not recommend to use long cables, keep as short as possible for lowest latency. Take reference from motherboard's original pcie lanes PCB trace, if extention cable longer than motherboard then use motherboard instead like now pcie3slot is OK. 20cm cable performance will loose benchmark to pcie3slot.
x370taichi@3.50gen4
AX750 Optane900P SN770
3800x PosdonZro4 BarrowPWM-17w>420x140x28
XFX SWFT319 6900XT
MSI RX560 LP to get Fluid Motion BlueskyFRC 75hz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cx5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Nightlane Nightlane wrote:


I am running 4 x G. Skill F4-3200C14-8GFX for a total of 32GB. It should be this one: https://www.gskill.com/specification/165/170/1535961634/F4-3200C14D-16GFX-Specification

But I have checked it out with the zemtiming as you suggested and seems bad:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072856367632760942/1072856420913008660/image.png


Option-1
You need to turn ON the XMP profile in uefi bios in order to ma full use of the 3200MT/s MegaTransfer/second, running at 1600Mhz seen in bios and soft and zentiming etc. If it crash, means it's not compatible with taichi & cpu.

Option-2
You can try to manually key in all the parameters from 1usmus's calculator and pray that it works. (missing tRFC2 and tRFC4 need to use "Additional calculators" to manually get it) where you need to key in nanosecond "ns" and the targeted MT/s and match it to main page's tRFC [416 in your case] finally copy down new found value of tRFC2 and tRFC4. Sorry my bad English & grammer.


****************
Regardless of all Options, must use the following voltages.
vddr_soc 1.1v
cldo_vddp 1.0v (this is not the regular simple vddp of 0.92v) infinity fabric voltage
VDDG_CCD 1.1v (I'm not sure if zen1 has this or not)
VDDG_IOD 1.1v (I'm not sure if zen1 has this or not) CPU's memory controller voltage
boost Dram voltage to 1.37v or 1.38v because taichi suffers voltage drop from factory.


****************
Many pre-requisites, Ryzen 1000 series zen1 like your 1700 is only officially certified for memory to 2666mhz "AND" the more ram sticks are used the lower the official certified speed. See https://images.anandtech.com/doci/11170/AMD%20Ryzen%207%20Press%20Deck-18_575px.jpg

But many zen1 users manages to run 3000MT/s and 3200MT/s while some luckier manages 3466MT/s and even 3600MT/s

My 1700x was not lucky, it max out at 3133MT/s stable 24/7, although can run 3200MT/s but will crash more and more crash as days goes by.


****************
Hence if XMP gives you crashes, then reduce the speed to 3000MT/s can try.


****************
what bios version are you using? recommend upgrade to the maximum 7.3 or something, even if you use zen1 only. Many improvements.


****************
Stability memory test, use 1usmus membench EASY 6000MB. If OK then play some games test. Sometimes mem test OK but game crash, means either need more voltages or somet timing needs changing, usually tRC and tRAS both +2 should be just nice.


****************
too much to write, I'll stop here. Good luck, hope to see you run 3200MT/s if not at least 3000MT/s


****************
change the MANUAL to A0/B0 PCB revision in 1usmus calculator.
x370taichi@3.50gen4
AX750 Optane900P SN770
3800x PosdonZro4 BarrowPWM-17w>420x140x28
XFX SWFT319 6900XT
MSI RX560 LP to get Fluid Motion BlueskyFRC 75hz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cx5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2023 at 10:56am
Originally posted by Nightlane Nightlane wrote:


About the option of swapping GPU and 900p, I suppose that the possible GPU performance loss is negligible. Right?


Yes, you are correct, NO GPU performance lost. I used to run my Vega64 at pcie3slot because I don't game all the time, instead the Optane900p is used all the time for everything hence it is in pcie2slot for shortest latency as well as for convenient mounting to casing and good looking instead of M.2convertRISER. But I am running M.2convertRISER again now as of writing.

Yes, swap your optane900p to pcie2slot and GPU to pcie3slot, because your GPU is full 3 slot thick, the optane900p is blocking the GPU FAN.

Also, add a "stick" of somekind to push up the GPU not let it sag down to avoid GPU's PCB break broken (seen some in youtube). I use a Chinese takeway chopstick and cut to required height and hide behind the liquid pump, haha.

My rig picture, once upon a time, https://www.overclock.net/showcase/2017-hk-3rd-system-ryzen.142934/
x370taichi@3.50gen4
AX750 Optane900P SN770
3800x PosdonZro4 BarrowPWM-17w>420x140x28
XFX SWFT319 6900XT
MSI RX560 LP to get Fluid Motion BlueskyFRC 75hz
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