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DeskMini 110B - Shielding problem?

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Aramis View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Sep 2016 at 11:07pm
Some days ago I got my DeskMini 110B to replace an other small desktop PC. It's a great device but I've got an issue with wireless USB mice.

I tried several different devices from Logitech and Microsoft. All having 2.4GHz radio frequencies. Using the old PC, which is put in exactly the same position as the DeskMini, all of these mice are working properly even if WiFi is enabled and Bluetooth is used in parallel.

Effects: 
- in some cases the mouse doesn't work at all
- sometimes it "rattles" (jerks?)
- sometimes it seems to disconnect and reconnect

This effect independent of
- the OS (Linux and Windows 10 are used)
- the used USB Port (front, back, using a USB hub)
- the distance between USB dongle and mouse

It also occurs when the USB dongle of the mouse is put in the front USB port and the distance between the dongle and the mouse is only some inches.

(The USB port seems to be OK as a wired USB mouse is working properly.)

Any suggestions? - Thanks for info.

P.S.:  Configuration
- DeskMini 110B
- Intel Pentium G4500@3.5GHz
- 2*8GB Kingston HyperX (DDR4, 2133, CL13)
- Samsung 840 Evo SSD connected to the first SATA port
- a wired USB Keyboard
- optional: USB 3.0 Hub with GBit Ethernet
- optional: TP-LINK TL-WN821N WiFi USB 2.0 Dongle connected to the USB Hub



Edited by Aramis - 24 Sep 2016 at 11:12pm
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wardog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 1:04am
This may sound weird, yet try putting a ~3ft usb extension cable between the 110 and dongle.

Please reply the results.

USB 2.0 and definately 3.0 suffer some nasty emi/rfi that that cable may rectify.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 1:13am
Also, since mice don't req usb 3.0, if you are using 3.0 ports for the dongle, place them in a 2.0 port and reply back. Otherwise try the cable trick. I've recommended it here many times and while not 100% it has solved quite a few
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by Aramis Aramis wrote:

Some days ago I got my DeskMini 110B to replace an other small desktop PC. It's a great device but I've got an issue with wireless USB mice.

I tried several different devices from Logitech and Microsoft. All having 2.4GHz radio frequencies. Using the old PC, which is put in exactly the same position as the DeskMini, all of these mice are working properly even if WiFi is enabled and Bluetooth is used in parallel.

Effects: 
- in some cases the mouse doesn't work at all
- sometimes it "rattles" (jerks?)
- sometimes it seems to disconnect and reconnect

This effect independent of
- the OS (Linux and Windows 10 are used)
- the used USB Port (front, back, using a USB hub)
- the distance between USB dongle and mouse

It also occurs when the USB dongle of the mouse is put in the front USB port and the distance between the dongle and the mouse is only some inches.

(The USB port seems to be OK as a wired USB mouse is working properly.)

Any suggestions? - Thanks for info.

P.S.:  Configuration
- DeskMini 110B
- Intel Pentium G4500@3.5GHz
- 2*8GB Kingston HyperX (DDR4, 2133, CL13)
- Samsung 840 Evo SSD connected to the first SATA port
- a wired USB Keyboard
- optional: USB 3.0 Hub with GBit Ethernet
- optional: TP-LINK TL-WN821N WiFi USB 2.0 Dongle connected to the USB Hub



The DeskMini PC may be in the same location as your other PC, but unless the location and position of the antennas, the WiFi internal and external wiring, number and type of wireless device sources and their locations, and shielding provided by the cases of the two PCs, among many other things, is all not identical, then it is not an identical comparison.

So you have two wireless networking devices connected to the DeskMini, at the same time, while using a wireless mouse? The potential for interference is high with that configuration.

I use a wireless keyboard and mouse, whose transceiver is connected to a USB hub, that is plugged into the USB 2.0 port on the back of the DeskMini. I use a wired Internet connection, no wireless Internet.

The keyboard and mouse work fine. The USB hub has a nice shielded cable, but the lack of other wireless sources is also a different configuration than yours.

I have the DeskMini 110W, with its included wireless adapter. I have it installed, but disabled. I'll try it enabled and in use and see what happens.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aramis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 2:44pm
Hello wardog,

yes it is weird. Because of this I added this thread... Wink

The USB hub I'm using has a 1m (3 feet?) cable. So I moved it from one side of the monitor, next to the PC, to the other. Also in this case the mouse wasn't operable.

What I haven't done so far is moving the PC "out of the way". It is placed on the right side of the monitor next to where the mouse is (less than 1/2m (2 feet?)).

What is funny: The WiFi stick - also a 2.4GHz device - is working properly when connected. The bandwith is "rock solid". The stick is running at about 130MBit/s.

@parsec: Thanks for the hint. I know that from HF point of view the devices are different...

What I wanted to say: With the old PC everything is working fine.

Are you using a wireless mouse? As described above the WiFi of my PC is working without any problems. But the mouse isn't. Even when WiFi is disabled or disconnected...

With the old PC the mouse I used was working properly in an area of >>5m (20 feet?) around the PC.

As it is the only thing I changed I think the DeskMini is the reason why the mouse is inoperable. I tested three different wireless mice of two different brands. All of them didn't work anymore.

It seems as if the DeskMini is a kind of "Störsender" (interference source?).

By the way: With the old PC I was using three devices (WiFi, mouse, Bluetooth) in paralell without any problem...


Edited by Aramis - 25 Sep 2016 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Aramis Aramis wrote:


The USB hub I'm using .........


Ick, a hub.

Notorious for causing all kinds of issues. And yes, I did read that it didn't cause issues with your old PC. But that was your old PC.

Will your mouse function properly if plugged directly to the 110B? That's the first troubleshooting I do here when someone brings a computer to me that they use a hub.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aramis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:06pm
OK, I will try it just with a cable...

P.S.: As mentioned before - connected to the front plug (directely) it wasn't working


Edited by Aramis - 25 Sep 2016 at 3:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aramis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2016 at 3:45pm
Addendum: 
Now the mouse dongle is sitting where the DeskMini has been before. The DeskMini is about 1,5m away under the desk. 

The mouse is working "perfectly well" independent if it is connected to the USB 3.0 Hub or directly to the DeskMini.

I have to check this but I think my DeskMini is some kind of "radio station"... Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Sep 2016 at 12:07am
Originally posted by Aramis Aramis wrote:

Addendum: 
Now the mouse dongle is sitting where the DeskMini has been before. The DeskMini is about 1,5m away under the desk. 

The mouse is working "perfectly well" independent if it is connected to the USB 3.0 Hub or directly to the DeskMini.

I have to check this but I think my DeskMini is some kind of "radio station"... Cry


I'm not sure if I understood your original configuration of the mouse dongle and one of the wireless network dongles.

Did you have both of those dongles connected to one USB hub? The hub is then connected to the DeskMini, to either the USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 port?

Now the mouse is working fine when it is connected to the DeskMini by itself, or using the USB 3.0 hub, right?

I don't understand what changed, besides moving the DeskMini itself under the desk. That seems to be all that was changed, is that right?

Radio signals are affected by many different things. Anything made of metal can affect radio signals, and how that affects the signals is unpredictable. The weather even affects your local wireless connection strength. Which reminds me, can you monitor the signal strength of your wireless connections?

A USB hub that can allow us to connect multiple USB devices, still only has one data connection between the hub and the USB input port. That's true for USB 2.0 or 3.0. USB 3.0 has more data connections, but that is what allows it to be faster.

Imagine a wireless mouse and wireless network device on a USB hub, they must share the data connection to the PC. That seems to work fine, your problem seems to be interference to the mouse signal. As wardog said, keeping the network and mouse signals separate, if possible, is a good idea.

Try putting new batteries in the wireless mouse, it might be broadcasting a weak signal.

The USB 2.0 port cannot supply the same amount of power that a USB 3.0 port can. That might be a factor for you, not enough power for both dongles at the same time.

I have a wireless mouse and keyboard that I use with my DeskMini, a Logitech that is not known for its good quality. It uses one dongle for the mouse and keyboard together.

I enabled the wireless network adapter that is connected to the M.2 slot on the DeskMini board, I'm using it now. My wired network connection is disconnected, the cable unplugged. The keyboard and mouse works fine.

This is not the same as your configuration at all, so not a fair comparison. As you learned, moving things around seems to have reduced the interference problem you seem to have. The DeskMini power supply has long wires that are also great antennas, moving the wires to different locations could help.
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