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7700k & Z270 Extreme4 - Can't get 5Ghz Stable :/

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vyktym View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 7:02pm
Setup:
7700K Delidded w/ Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut
Asrock Z270 Extreme4
2 x 8GB G-Skill Trident-Z 3600
500GB Intel P600 M.2 SSD

Cooling:
XSPC Raystorm Water Block
3x120mm Radiator with 6 Corsair ML120 fans in Push/Pull
D5 Pump & XSPC Dual Bay Res


Now, my friend has same water kit, same ram, only difference is his motherboard (Gigabyte Z170X G1 Gaming).

In his system, my CPU is rock solid at 1.36v @ 5.00Ghz. Using Prime95 Small FFT & LinX to stress test.
We set cache to 45x and AVX offset to 0.

I have latest BIOS. In my board, I can't get 5Ghz stable, no matter what. I've tried:
- Leaving all voltage settings on auto (except vcore, obviously)
- Using the 5Ghz BIOS profile provided by Asrock
- Using the Gear-1 and Gear-2 versions of the 5Ghz profile
- Giving all CPU voltages 'plenty' of extra headroom (VCCIO/VCCSA/PLL etc.)

My temps are under 80c at 1.4v. Where vcore gets set above 1.4v for automatic profiles, I adjust it back down to 1.4v since I know the chip's good for 5Ghz at 1.36v.

The system just randomly hangs/freezes at high overclocks :(
I can sit at 4.8Ghz with 100% stock voltages on everything except vcore rock solid.

Is my board just terrible orrrrr?


Edited by vyktym - 23 Jan 2017 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by vyktym vyktym wrote:

..........only difference is his motherboard (Gigabyte Z170X G1 Gaming).


The Z270 Extreme4 is not a terrible motherboard, yet it is in the middling to lower bracket.

Too, I believe it is a 4-layer PCB. Which being 4-layer doesn't lend itself to being too awfully OC friendly.


Also, let's not discount the Silicon Lottery.


Yet comparing his board to the Extreme4 is an apples to oranges discussion. Hold on to what you have till ASRock releases a Z270 OC Formula. Or pick up a Z170 OC Formula used from one of the forums that have a "For Sale or Trade" section.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vyktym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 9:01pm
Can't help but feel a bit disappointed. Went the 'EXTREME 4' over the Pro 4 simply for better clockability, turned out that it's still a pile of garbage :( A bit miffed because every man and his dog seems to get 5Ghz (on cheaper boards) with less cooling etc.

I don't think anyone actually tests the pre-made overclocking profiles -_-

Edited by vyktym - 23 Jan 2017 at 9:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 9:50pm
Firstly, take a step back from the issue and relax. Overclocking is tricky business and not something to be undertaken in a foul mood, trust me Tongue

Your friend's board is a high end Z170 board with a significantly more powerful/efficient power design. The Gaming G1 uses a PLX chip for Quad SLI support as well as many other features not supported at the price range of the Z270 Extreme 4. Gigabyte does not have a true "Enthusiast OC" class product, their best are boards like your friend's.  

To achieve 5ghz stable on my Z270 Gaming K6 (very similar board) with my i5 7600k (harder to reach 5ghz) I set the preset to 4.8ghz and adjusted my vcore to 1.44v. In OS via HW Monitor my vcore reports as 1.42v and all is stable. So long as you keep your temps under about 85c @full load you should be fine so in your case I would bump up your vcore to 1.41 then 1.42 if needed and test again there. Also, Prime is not the best test for stability on modern hardware, it unrealistically stresses the CPU and can cause issues. I generally use IBT (Intel Burn in Test) at default settings for 10 passes, if this is successful then the system is stable. Your board will experience more voltage droop than your friend's so you need to offset that with a higher vcore. Try and keep it under 1.5v but don't be afraid to push past 1.4 under water cooling. 

Good luck and let us know how you go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2017 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by vyktym vyktym wrote:

Can't help but feel a bit disappointed. Went the 'EXTREME 4' over the Pro 4 simply for better clockability, turned out that it's still a pile of garbage :( A bit miffed because every man and his dog seems to get 5Ghz (on cheaper boards) with less cooling etc.

I don't think anyone actually tests the pre-made overclocking profiles -_-


There is no chance that everyone is reaching 5GHz with cheaper boards and less cooling, with cooling being the major factor.

I have an i7-7700K, no delid, ASRock Z270 Gaming K6, high end air cooling, very well ventilated PC case, and 5GHz stress testing at 1.42V hits 90C+ in no time. True water cooling and a delid processor like you use is not what everyone uses.

The 1.36V VCore for 5GHz is not common, I really wonder about that. Seems to be very low, since at stock clocks and Auto VCore settings, the VCore of i7-7700Ks is normally 1.4V. What is being used to monitor the VCore?

No mention of the PSU being used, is that the same in both PCs? What PSU are you using?

One drawback of water cooling is the CPU VRMs usually do not get any air movement over their heat sinks, unless fans are added for that purpose. Your friend's board has water cooling fittings for the CPU VRM heatsinks, are they included in his loop?

To compare two PCs, everything else must be exactly identical, PC case, case fans used, mounting location of radiators, configuration of radiator fans (intake or exhaust), video card type and location (video card heat dumped into case, or exhausted with case fans), etc.

What UEFI/BIOS version are you using? Have you tried the 1.33A Beta version?

More VCCIO and VCCSA voltage does not automatically help, except to raise temperatures. The XMP profiles of every high speed DDR4 memory I've used is way to high, more is not better for these voltages. I routinely reduce the values used by the XMP profiles, at least by 0.1V.

Are the C State and other CPU power saving options configured the same on both boards?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 12:34am
Originally posted by vyktym vyktym wrote:

Can't help but feel a bit disappointed. Went the 'EXTREME 4' over the Pro 4 simply for better clockability, turned out that it's still a pile of garbage :( A bit miffed because every man and his dog seems to get 5Ghz (on cheaper boards) with less cooling etc.

I don't think anyone actually tests the pre-made overclocking profiles -_-


Oh, I hear ya. Been there, done that I have.


You don't say so I'll ask. As parsec implied, do you have a fan blowing over the VRM section of the board? That is a requirement when water cooling as now instead of the HS's fan(s) circulating cooling air over the VRM section you have a pump. A pump that circulates ZERO air to cool the parts surrounding the CPU socket.

And BTW, nice water cooling kit you have there. Although somewhat limiting I much prefer the AiO kits.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vyktym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 9:09am
I have a side-panel fan (Corsair ML120) blowing straight over whole system. VRM heatsinks are warm to the touch, but not 'hot' by any means. Friend's Gigabyte board doesn't have his VRMs in his loop (yet). Vcore on his board checked by multimeter on the test points (which correspond exactly with what's being shown in CPU-Z and HWMonitor). His 7700k is 100% rock solid at 1.35v, which is even better :D

I've set cache at 42x the entire time just for testing purposes. All C-States and power saving has been turned off. I've turned ICCMax to 255a in Intel XTU

I'm using the latest BIOS, whichever one that happens to be (updated it less than a week ago from the BIOS download section). Haven't tried an beta versions, might be worth looking at. 
Edit: I am indeed on 1.30. I'll try 1.33a when I get home from work, great suggestion (y)

Pre de-lid, I'd hit 90+ at 1.28v, it was terrible. I'm using a Thermaltake Toughpower Gold 750, he's using a Thermaltake DPS 800. I have a Radeon 290X and he has a GTX980, both are looped into our kits, but are under 0 load and aren't a factor.

At 1.36v, I'm barely hitting 75c at 50% radiator fan speed :D If I bring vcore down too much, Prime95 threads will start failing, so this hanging doesn't seem vcore related.




Edited by vyktym - 24 Jan 2017 at 9:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vyktym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 11:54pm
Turned out that turning LLC (LoadLine Calibration) on at all causes random hangs.

No LLC, no hangs. GJ Assrock!

1.36v 50x/48x
1.32v 50x/45x 

Both rock solid. With AVX at 50x


Edited by vyktym - 24 Jan 2017 at 11:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 12:01am
It sounds like the cooling on your VRMs isn't adequate, LLC causes higher VRM temps Wink

If you are stable without it though then all is well, I prefer not using it if I don't have to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vyktym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2017 at 12:06am
The VRMs are warm to the touch, but certainly not hot. The fan has a solid amount of airflow over them.

Even with LLC off and 1.4v+ (actual), it's still rock solid. The LLC setting itself is the issue, not VRM temps :D

With LLC on even at 1.2v, I get random hangs.

Edited by vyktym - 25 Jan 2017 at 12:09am
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