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X399 TR + 64GB ECC UDIMM Memory

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sfchun View Drop Down
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    Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 9:10am
Hello 

I globaly trust in Asrock more than others regarding the follow up on BIOS updates and product quality.
This is why I dare posting here hoping for an answer :)

I'm currently thinking of building a big personal home server (multipurpose).
Threadripper is a big oportunity for my project.
Since this project is pretty much important in term of data/calculation, also I will be using ubuntu and open ZFS filesystem.
In my case 64GB of ECC memory is a must have
I dont see x399 motherboards providing real support for 64GB ECC ...  :/ 

From what I could see the following memory modules are configured in Epyc CPU configurations (up to 2 TB).

Can I expect 64GB ECC on one of theses boards ?? or any future TR motherboard products ??



Edited by sfchun - 28 Aug 2017 at 9:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 11:24am
Originally posted by sfchun sfchun wrote:

Hello 

I globaly trust in Asrock more than others regarding the follow up on BIOS updates and product quality.
This is why I dare posting here hoping for an answer :)

I'm currently thinking of building a big personal home server (multipurpose).
Threadripper is a big oportunity for my project.
Since this project is pretty much important in term of data/calculation, also I will be using ubuntu and open ZFS filesystem.
In my case 64GB of ECC memory is a must have
I dont see x399 motherboards providing real support for 64GB ECC ...  :/ 

From what I could see the following memory modules are configured in Epyc CPU configurations (up to 2 TB).

Can I expect 64GB ECC on one of theses boards ?? or any future TR motherboard products ??



Why don't you see X399 boards providing real support for 64GB of ECC memory? What does not providing real support for ECC memory mean?

Simply that you don't find any ECC memory in the Memory QVL of these boards?

Threadripper processor's memory controller supports ECC memory, although you'll need to dig through AMD's specs to find it. Apparently not cool to support ECC memory?

Next, if we check the specs of both of the ASRock X399 boards, we find this:

Supports DDR4 3600+(OC)/3200(OC)/2933(OC)/2667/2400/2133 ECC & non-ECC, un-buffered memory

That's at least a basic spec for ECC support.

If we check Crucial's mother board compatibility for the Crucial CT16G4XFD824A you asked about, I had a hard time finding any X399 boards at all. So if Crucial doesn't yet know, yes that is kind of questionable.

Of course their compatibility list is not filtered by ECC support, so I found my ASRock X370 board supporting that memory, while compatible Ryzen processors do not support ECC memory. That inspires confidence, right? Confused

That's the best I can tell you currently. It looks like the memory manufactures are getting caught unprepared with Threadripper as badly as they were (are) with Ryzen.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 3:25pm
The need for ECC memory for use at home is far FAR overrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sfchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2017 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:



Why don't you see X399 boards providing real support for 64GB of ECC memory? What does not providing real support for ECC memory mean?

Simply that you don't find any ECC memory in the Memory QVL of these boards?

Threadripper processor's memory controller supports ECC memory, although you'll need to dig through AMD's specs to find it. Apparently not cool to support ECC memory?

Next, if we check the specs of both of the ASRock X399 boards, we find this:

Supports DDR4 3600+(OC)/3200(OC)/2933(OC)/2667/2400/2133 ECC & non-ECC, un-buffered memory

That's at least a basic spec for ECC support.

If we check Crucial's mother board compatibility for the Crucial CT16G4XFD824A you asked about, I had a hard time finding any X399 boards at all. So if Crucial doesn't yet know, yes that is kind of questionable.

Of course their compatibility list is not filtered by ECC support, so I found my ASRock X370 board supporting that memory, while compatible Ryzen processors do not support ECC memory. That inspires confidence, right? Confused

That's the best I can tell you currently. It looks like the memory manufactures are getting caught unprepared with Threadripper as badly as they were (are) with Ryzen.


Ok I was not clear.
Yes I've read the specs, I saw that X399 boards support UDIMM ECC memory.
But in Memory QVL lists I dont see a configuration tested/approved up to 64GB ECC (or I missunderstood the list which is possible).
When I'm ready to spend quite some money in a configuration, I want to be sure memory has been  tested/approved.
I just dont want to find myself trying my luck :/




Edited by sfchun - 28 Aug 2017 at 8:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 3:14am
sfcchun, here is a post about Ryzen using ECC memory:

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5595&KW=ecc&PID=32901&title=ryzen-1700-on-taichi-x370-no-oc-random-hard-lock#32901

I had to post the URL this way since it contains a question mark (?) and for some reason the forum changes it and it does not work anymore.  Ryzen is new and Threadripper is even newer and the vendors have not done their testing.  I would contact a vendor (my favorite is G.Skill) and make sure if the memory you buy can be RMAed/refunded if it will not work.  They should be able to find a kit that is what you want with timings close to a qualified one.  Their FlareX is made especially for AMD.  Here is their latest announcement: 32GB and 128GB
No question mark in this URL.  Enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sfchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 7:21am
Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

sfcchun, here is a post about Ryzen using ECC memory:

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5595&KW=ecc&PID=32901&title=ryzen-1700-on-taichi-x370-no-oc-random-hard-lock#32901

I had to post the URL this way since it contains a question mark (?) and for some reason the forum changes it and it does not work anymore.  Ryzen is new and Threadripper is even newer and the vendors have not done their testing.  I would contact a vendor (my favorite is G.Skill) and make sure if the memory you buy can be RMAed/refunded if it will not work.  They should be able to find a kit that is what you want with timings close to a qualified one.  Their FlareX is made especially for AMD.  Here is their latest announcement: 32GB and 128GB
No question mark in this URL.  Enjoy, John.

Thanks for your reply, but it's not what I'm expecting :)
Ryzen is not exactly TR , and  32GB on an X370 is not 64GB on a X399.
As I said I wont try my luck on memory modules , I'll wait it to be tested and approved, clearly defined in the supported list before I buy anything.
I just thought 64GB ECC should be normal standard testing for such a beast (TR), and dont get why we have 'Gamer' tag motherboards for it... 
Anyways, I think I just need to wait ... hope I dont get too much pissed off and go to intel :/ (too expensive).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MisterJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 8:06am
sfchun, sorry my reply was not what you expected.  It seemed to me that several were wondering if Ryzen/Threadripper supported ECC.  I was pointing out that users were using ECC memory.  Threadripper is to some extent two Ryzen chips in the same package.  I assume the memory controllers are very similar if not the same.  The main point I was making was to contact a vendor technical support for a recommendation.  I did this before Ryzen shipped to select the memory for my build.  Good luck and enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 8:26am
also trying to help here

before i bought my ryzen system (i was another early adopter)
i spent a long time on youtube seeing what the reviewers were using and or getting to work with which boards
after seeing two very happy guys with the taichi x370 thats what i selected and added to reading a lot on forums etc choose ram that wasnt on the qvl but did indeed work from day one

of particular intrest maybe to you its worth checking a guy on youtube called
level1tech
he uses linux a lot and also sets up vm's etc he might have some insight


allthough without trying to sound presumptious
i do also wonder the point made above
is ECC really important to your build ?

whenever i used it before it has been just based on the fact it was bought for nigh on pennies from ebay as *used ex server ram* when i built a smashing little 2x cpu amd system pre launch of the athlon x2 whatsits (fond memories of that thing smashing the x1900 cpus in benchmarks Smile )
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

3800X, powercolor reddevil vega64, gskill tridentz3866, taichix370, evga750watt gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 9:06am
Originally posted by sfchun sfchun wrote:

Ok I was not clear.
Yes I've read the specs, I saw that X399 boards support UDIMM ECC memory.
But in Memory QVL lists I dont see a configuration tested/approved up to 64GB ECC (or I missunderstood the list which is possible).
When I'm ready to spend quite some money in a configuration, I want to be sure memory has been  tested/approved.
I just dont want to find myself trying my luck :/




That's what I thought.

What bothers me is, why is the testing and verification of any memory with specific features expected to be done by the mother board manufacture?

The memory controller which is part of the processor and NOT part of a mother board, was designed by the manufacture of the processor, AMD or Intel. They determine what memory will be compatible with their memory controller design, and whether or not it supports ECC memory, or Registered memory.

The memory manufactures must design their products, and use the appropriate components, to match the specifications of the memory controllers designed by the processor manufactures. Whom would know better than the memory manufactures whether or not their product will or will not work with the memory controllers used with a specific platform, like Threadripper?

Yet the model of ECC memory you are interested in does not yet have any Threadripper systems that support ECC memory in their products support list.

Are mother board manufactures expected to purchase EVERY model of memory that exists that could be used with a platform, and test them for compatibility and functionality?

Where is AMD's memory compatibility list for Threadripper processors, including ECC memory models?

Where is {fill in memory manufacture name} list of their compatible products with Threadripper, including any ECC memory models?

I understand completely why you need this information. Particularly given the current price of DDR4 memory, and what 64GB of ECC memory will cost. Given the fiasco that memory support for Ryzen processors is known to be, I hope memory support for Threadripper will be sorted out much sooner (not that it is for Ryzen at this time...) by ALL the parties involved. That will take some time.

Originally posted by sfchun<div><br></div><div>Thanks for your reply, but it's not what I'm expecting :)</div><div>Ryzen is not exactly TR , and  32GB on an X370 is not 64GB on a X399.</div><div>As
 I said I wont try my luck on memory modules , I'll wait it to be tested
 and approved, clearly defined in the supported list before I buy 
anything.</div><div>I just thought 64GB ECC should be normal standard 
testing for such a beast (TR), and dont get why we have 'Gamer' tag 
motherboards for it... </div><div><u><b>Anyways, I think I just need to wait ... hope I dont get too much pissed off and go to intel :/ (too expensive).</b></u></div>[/QUOTE sfchun

Thanks for your reply, but it's not what I'm expecting :)
Ryzen is not exactly TR , and  32GB on an X370 is not 64GB on a X399.
As I said I wont try my luck on memory modules , I'll wait it to be tested and approved, clearly defined in the supported list before I buy anything.
I just thought 64GB ECC should be normal standard testing for such a beast (TR), and dont get why we have 'Gamer' tag motherboards for it... 
Anyways, I think I just need to wait ... hope I dont get too much pissed off and go to intel :/ (too expensive).
[/QUOTE wrote:




MisterJ's attempt at helping you is an example of all the information that we have at this time, and is better than nothing.

So you'll become angry if you must wait too long? You can try to go to Intel, but what platform will you be using? I don't see any X299 boards that say they support ECC memory, since Intel normally requires support from the chipset for some reason, in order to support ECC memory. You'll require a Xeon processor of course.



MisterJ's attempt at helping you is an example of all the information that we have at this time, and is better than nothing.

So you'll become angry if you must wait too long? You can try to go to Intel, but what platform will you be using? I don't see any X299 boards that say they support ECC memory, since Intel normally requires support from the chipset for some reason, in order to support ECC memory. You'll require a Xeon processor of course.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sfchun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2017 at 9:50am
Quote
MisterJ's attempt at helping you is an example of all the information that we have at this time, and is better than nothing.

So you'll become angry if you must wait too long? You can try to go to Intel, but what platform will you be using? I don't see any X299 boards that say they support ECC memory, since Intel normally requires support from the chipset for some reason, in order to support ECC memory. You'll require a Xeon processor of course.

 
Always difficult by typing to make people get you exact mood, forum are full of sensitive people ...
If someone feel offended I'm sorry.

Indeed Xeon for a workstation/server , I never had in mind a core i7 or i9.
But Xeon price is realy crazy compare to TR.
Also I did not had a look at X299 chipsets, I dont know if it's the right chipset for xeon.
My mind if focus on TR for now, but it just SEEMS to me that Intel is more realist by keeping the border between genral customer usage and server (core iX / Xeon).
Just to make you understand , what I feel by reading answer from forumS ... it seems people dont realy care about having a lot of memory or using ECC on TR X399 platform...
It's just wierd to me ... even reviewers from youtube benchmark it on games ... this is not the purpose at all of this kind of processors (at least not yet)...

Just to sumarize my thinking, I just think that not validating full loaded ECC memory on a TR platform seems not logic, and I just hope it wont be too long before it happens... that's all.
And if I become impatient, then yes I'll have a look at expensive Xeons or Epyc platforms... :/



Edited by sfchun - 29 Aug 2017 at 9:50am
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