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z370 extreme4 - wrong chipset?
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Globespy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Oct 2018 at 1:26pm
Why is device manager showing that my board is Intel 200 series when it's Intel 300?
The drivers from AsRock are installed but seem they are for the z270 series kaby lake boards.

I understand that the intel INF likely supports many chipsets, but it should at least be installing the specific chipset drivers for the board, especially when they made everyone buy a new board for coffee lake even though it's not much different in architecture from Skylake/Kaby

I've seen this issue in other forums, Asus actually provide the correct INF.

With still putting up with broken sound and now this, it's not giving me good vibes about AsRock - they don't seem to give a flying fig about their customers.
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Xaltar View Drop Down
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System specs, OS version and BIOS revision would be helpful here.

By the look of it you seem to be having driver issues more than anything else between this and your other posts. I have a few questions about your setup so we can try figure the issues out:

1. Is this a new build with all new parts?
2. Is this a fresh OS install performed on this system or is it migrated from another machine?

By the issues you are reporting it looks like a migrated OS that is bloated with drivers from another system. This is never a good idea with modern hardware, with generational differences being relatively minor, like between 200 and 300 series chipsets, it is not uncommon for windows to continue using the incorrect driver and subsequently persist in identifying the hardware incorrectly. 

A fresh install with a new system is crucial these days. Sometimes you can get away with migrating the OS drive from another system but it is not a good idea to do so, particularly when upgrading to a similar platform (100 series to 200 or 300 series for example). Migrating from intel - AMD or vice versa typically works fine due to major hardware differences that prevent using existing drivers.  
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razvan974 View Drop Down
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The same situation Happened to me. First time, after clean install of windows 10 pro 64bit, in device manager all cipset drivers show 300 series. After latest Windows update, the drivers changed to 200 cipset series...
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Globespy View Drop Down
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Thank you for your reply, I don't think anyone has replied before so it's a novelty.
Answers in line:
 
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

System specs, OS version and BIOS revision would be helpful here.

By the look of it you seem to be having driver issues more than anything else between this and your other posts. I have a few questions about your setup so we can try figure the issues out:

Technically yes, but worth noting that my other posts are predominantly about sound issues due to the Realtek ALC1220 chipset. Whether AsRock wants to play dumb to this or not, I think it's safe to say that this issue has been plaguing Z370 boards across nearly every manufacturer using this chipset.
Asus, Gigabyte - forums are filled with the exact same issues - popping, clicking noises that despite being reported as far back as February 2018 have yet to find resolution other than the handful of strange workarounds such as disabling then enabling Nvidia graphics card every time you start your computer. Even this doesn't resolve the issue for many, it's a poor bandaid at best.
Of course the mobo guys blame Realtek, Microsoft, Nvidia and everyone else other than looking at what they can do for their customers. 
Realtek blame everyone else and so on - a world of non-accountability for issues, yet heavily focused on profit.
Right now I am forced to use the generic Microsoft HD Audio drivers which at least allow me to have a mostly trouble-free experience and let me use the front panel headphone connection on my motherboard, and actually intelligently differentiate from headphones in the front panel and desktop speakers in the rear - a thing Realtek used to do nicely but seemingly have chosen instead to do as little as possible these days. 
Using the front panel with the latest Realtek drivers is not possible - and still the 'blame game' continues that it's many other things such as interference from the GPU being too close to the DAC capacitors, badly grounded PSU, PSU power too close to audio front panel connection, faulty motherboard etc.
But yet these issues don't exist with the generic Microsoft drivers?

I wonder how many perfectly good boards were returned?
I digress.....

1. Is this a new build with all new parts?
Yes, built from scratch with all new components - been doing this 20 years, not my first rodeo:
i7 8086k, Gigabyte Aorus GTX 1080ti Extreme edition, AsRock Extreme4, 32GB Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200Mhz, Corsair 150i Pro, EVGA Supernova 1200 P2 PSU, Win 10 1809 (yes the latest version without the issue that some had with deleting docs)

2. Is this a fresh OS install performed on this system or is it migrated from another machine?
Yes sir. I don't believe in Windows updates let alone migrating some frankenstein OS from a different build with plethora incompatible drivers, registry entries and the like.
Always a clean, fresh install, no exceptions.

By the issues you are reporting it looks like a migrated OS that is bloated with drivers from another system. This is never a good idea with modern hardware, with generational differences being relatively minor, like between 200 and 300 series chipsets, it is not uncommon for windows to continue using the incorrect driver and subsequently persist in identifying the hardware incorrectly. 
Assumptions based on limited or literally no data are always dangerous, and often incorrect as in this case

A fresh install with a new system is crucial these days. Sometimes you can get away with migrating the OS drive from another system but it is not a good idea to do so, particularly when upgrading to a similar platform (100 series to 200 or 300 series for example). Migrating from intel - AMD or vice versa typically works fine due to major hardware differences that prevent using existing drivers.  
I think I've covered this.

For your information I have tried many options - it seems that quite often the Intel INF will not install things correctly, I'm guessing likely because they include so many different chipsets into these files that mistakes can happen.
I've forced the installation using elevated command line parameters and with the latest chipset version I could find (intel_chipset_win_10.1.17809.8096_PV).
Example - c:\setupfolder\setupfile.exe -overall

This indeed installs the correct series 300 chipset, but unfortunately brings it's own set of problems that AsRock's inherent laziness could have resolved had they taken the time to ensure that the generic INF from Intel was actually tailored to this motherboard.

I keep images of my builds (Reflect) from the very base level installation so that I can easily return to a working state should things go wrong.

So now what?

Again, thanks for your response.

BTW - you seem to have a LOT of posts as a moderator. Why haven't I seen you respond to the problems people are having with the sound issues on these intel specific boards? You look to be an AMD CPU guy, so perhaps this isn't an issue for you, but I'm guessing you must at least have some ideas with so many posts?
Or is it simply that the answer isn't going to promote positive community feedback, so best just to keep passing the blame along the chain until the new motherboards come out? 



Edited by Globespy - 25 Oct 2018 at 5:20am
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Globespy View Drop Down
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Originally posted by razvan974 razvan974 wrote:

The same situation Happened to me. First time, after clean install of windows 10 pro 64bit, in device manager all cipset drivers show 300 series. After latest Windows update, the drivers changed to 200 cipset series...

This is because you allowed Microsoft to essentially install a new version of the OS on top of your nice clean installation. And they replaced the drivers with their own.
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Xaltar View Drop Down
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Often times on forums you need to assume, it doesn't hurt to be wrong but if you are not, it can save a lot of time Wink

As for the audio issues, based on all the posts I have read (which is most of them) I am at a loss as to what to suggest that hasn't been tried already. Part of the issue is that I don't have a comparable system to work with and troubleshoot on. I am not ASRock Tech Support so I don't have access to test systems and such. I also can't justify spending money on systems I don't need outside of helping people here on the forums. I am just a moderator, a community member like yourself. 

Honestly, since windows 10 launched I have been tearing my hair out. I have never seen an OS cause so many issues so frequently. Sure, some OS versions have been bad in the past but they were gradually patched up and made serviceable, I feel like windows 10, with it's forced updates (which the average user is not able to disable), causes issue after issue, 1 step forward, 3 steps sideways and 2 steps back. Like yourself, I have been doing this a very long time and in that time I have never seen an OS behave like this. 

Typically, when troubleshooting on a forum like this you suggest a fresh install then move on step by step to resolve the issue once the OS is clean and new. The assumption being, it shouldn't be the OS causing issues if the install is fresh and uncorrupted. Since windows 10 you can no longer be sure. 

As a convenient example, the system in my signature, I had endless problems with stability, TDR errors in games, benchmarks and sometimes even just browsing the web. Then, when those didn't happen I had random freezing that would last 20 - 30 seconds then resume. I did everything to get to the bottom of it, different board/s, CPU, RAM, multiple OS installs, driver testing (GPU) with every supported version available at the time and nothing helped. Just as I was ready to yank all the hardware out of my case and put my 7600k/Z270 back in, the system restarts and a windows update happens. From that point on the system has been rock stable. Admittedly I was an early adopter but still, I have seen updates break systems frequently on these forums since then. As a moderator, how do I address issues that I can't determine the origins of?

Bit of a rant there but I get the feeling you know where I am at Wink
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Globespy View Drop Down
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Sounds like you have also traveled the well-traveled road yourself.

AsRock offered for me to send my board into them for 'testing' since the rather condescending little man on the other end of the phone literally denied any known issues with sound on these boards and that it "must be something I was doing" etc.

I declined as it is a time wasting charade, and he knew that as much as I did.
I was also close to sending the board back to Amazon, but other than the MSI Carbon Z370 board which uses a slightly different version of the ALC1220 chipset, there weren't other options that didn't have forums full of angry customers complaining about the same thing!

It's puzzling when you find the people (with usually 1 post - mobo employee most likely) posting that they have absolutely no issues at all "after a clean install of Windows".
As you pointed out, this process is no longer the panacea it once used to be for system issues and instabilities.

I actually have a friend who ironically has the same board and literally the same CPU (well his is called an i7 8700k - I tinker a lot so spending the extra for a pre-binned version was beneficial to me) and he reports none of the issues I have.
But he is still using Realtek drivers from around March and is on BIOS 1.80 - my board came with 3.10 and I'm not sure downgrading will achieve anything other than open me up to security vulnerabilities.

There is one difference with my friends setup - he does not use the front panel audio connections, instead plugging directly into the motherboard. Admittedly, the sound issues are far less pronounced when I have tried this, but it wasn't a 100% fix for me.
He's also using lower end turtle beach headphones, I'm using a nice set of V-Moda M100 crossfades - perhaps I am hearing the issues amplified through better cans?
The so called "NE5532 Premium Headset Amplifier for Front Panel" is somewhat debatable.

What is still absolutely bewildering is the fact that the Microsoft HD drivers do not suffer from the absolute unusable front headphone connection quality that the Realtek drivers embody.
It's obviously not an interference thing, it's absolutely a software issue. The only sensible conclusion is that Realtek just simply don't care to invest the resources to fix their drivers for this generation.
Microsoft on the other hand have more of an incentive to ensure the average guy who plugs his headphones into the connection on the front of his new PC has a good experience.
I wish that we had more options other than Realtek - the problem with lack of choice creates laziness.

As for what to do, I am almost out of ideas. 
I've tried a bunch of drivers from different manufacturers and different dates, admittedly I have had more success with the MSI/Asus drivers which leads me to believe that their engineers actually bothered to take the time to tailor them somewhat to their products - AsRock is adamant that no motherboard manufacturer touches Realtek's drivers in any way.

I'm genuinely thinking of going back to Win 10 v1607 - that was solid.
Of course I will have to get really creative with Gpedit and registry changes to stop the constant attempts to force updates, but I am confident I can figure that out.
What concerns me is the security aspects, but in reality the risks for a home user who is sensible about their online usage are still minuscule I'd imagine.

The other option is to invest in a dedicated PCI sound card - that's probably the direction I will end up going for this build and it's something that can go beyond this build too so likely money well spent.

Thanks again for your reply.


Edited by Globespy - 25 Oct 2018 at 7:34am
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Globespy View Drop Down
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btw - what build of windows made things work for you?
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how are things at home
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