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Skylake CPU caution

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: Intel Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock Intel Motherboards
URL: http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1425
Printed Date: 25 May 2022 at 10:45am
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Topic: Skylake CPU caution
Posted By: Xaltar
Subject: Skylake CPU caution
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 7:00pm
For those of you not already aware there appears to be issues regarding warping on Skylake CPUs when using some aftermarket CPU coolers. The substrate used on the new Skylake process is significantly thinner than previous generation CPUs and as such some CPU coolers that use excessive pressure to hold in place are warping Skylake CPUs and causing system failures and instability.

If you have made the jump to Skylake then be very careful what coolers you use. Many manufacturers have listed Skylake compliance on their cooling products so be sure you use one that meets Intel's mechanical specification.



Replies:
Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 7:19pm
Sorry. I couldn't resist the temptation ..........

http://www.intuitiveaccountant.com/vendor-news/skylake-has-arrived-processing-just-went-warp/#.VmF1uOIasXV" rel="nofollow - Skylake has arrived, Processing just went warp...
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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 7:25pm
Serious now I am :)

Good article, in German with pics, discussing Skylake warping:

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Luftkuehlung-Hardware-217993/News/Skylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237/
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Posted By: helpmepls
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 9:35pm
good that i got an i5 haswell.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2015 at 10:00pm
Apparently it is only a problem with large, heavy tower style coolers. From what I have seen it does not appear to be an overly common issue. I created this thread not to warn people away from Skylake but rather to caution on choice of cooler. Even with the larger coolers you should still be ok so long as you do not over tighten them to the point they warp the CPU substrate. This is not a new issue and is certainly not restricted to Skylake, any cooler that does not meet the mechanical requirements of the CPU it is installed on has the potential to cause damage. 

Again, I created this thread as a caution for new builds/upgrades. This is the kind of info that can save a lot of trouble and frustration. Use a Skylake compatible cooler and you will not run into these issues. This is not a criticism of Skylake CPUs, it is merely information. Many people were skeptical when intel moved the pins from the CPU to the motherboard socket but the design is still in use several generations later and has proved efficient and resulted in a lot less damaged CPUs via bent pins.

If anyone wants to contribute by listing CPU cooling that is compatible with the platform please go right ahead but do not use this thread as an excuse to bash or otherwise post unproductive comments. 

Ultimately, most people with a decent Haswell CPU will not be looking to upgrade to Skylake anyway Wink I am shortly making the jump to Skylake myself and discovered this info during the usual research I do before adopting a new platform. I will be taking this into account during my own build and felt I should share it here for my fellow forum members who may not be aware.

[Edit]
Tom's Hardware has posted an http://www.tomshardware.com/news/skylake-cpus-damaged-by-coolers,30690.html#xtor=RSS-998" rel="nofollow - article on the issue for anyone interested.


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 2:01am
Well, I have a Noctua NH-D14 on my i5-6600K, in my ASRock Z170 Extreme7+ board. The specs list the NH-D14's weight with both fans as 1240 grams, or ~2.73 pounds. Shocked

But weight is not likely the main problem, it's pressure on the CPU from the CPU cooler mounting.

My middle name is "torque", meaning I like things tight. Wink  I did not spare the screws during the mounting process. They are tight to a stopping point, but not much more.

I have no problems with that PC at all. I just changed the memory to G.SKILL Trident Z 3200 Pinch which had me worried about using it at that speed. Clicked the XMP profile in the UEFI, booted right up the first time and every time. If the pins in the CPU socket were compromised, I would expect problems. I'm using a 4.4GHz OC.

All this does NOT mean I think this issue does not exist. A friend of mine using the same board has apparently bent pins in the CPU socket on two of them, using a custom water cooling CPU block. He said he barely tightened down the water block on the second board, but had the same result, one bent pin in the socket. He used the same CPU on both boards, which I would bet has a warped/bent substrate. As Xaltar said, the substrate on Skylake processors is visibly thinner than previous Intel processors.

IMO, it is a bit odd that just recently we are seeing this being reported. One of the main factors of compatibility with CPU coolers across different socket types (1155, 1150, 1151) is the distance between the surface of the mother board and the top of the processors IHS when mounted in the CPU socket. That must be identical or the contact pressure between the IHS and CPU cooler's contact plate will be to little or to much.

My point is did something change with later production runs of the 1151 processor sockets. I guess it is still early in this mystery but hopefully we'll learn what is going on eventually.




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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 2:07am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:


IMO, it is a bit odd that just recently we are seeing this being reported.


Yea. Hi Torque!

Meh, most shoot for the biggest baddest HS money can buy. Then the OC the pis* out of it. Pushing insane voltages. Voltages which result in heat.

Heat that is most likely, and over much time, now allowing/causing the substrate to deflect when hot and now "cure' in this position/deformity.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 2:09am
Bad Intel

hehehe, that coming from an AMD Groupie I am.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 2:48am
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

Heat that is most likely, and over much time, now allowing/causing the substrate to deflect when hot and now "cure' in this position/deformity.

This is a very interesting theory, the vast majority of the reported occurrences I have seen have been overclocked and while I did not see any indication of voltages used it is a fairly safe bet that at 4.5ghz+ they may have been pushing it. Heat may well be causing the substrate polymers to soften, resulting in bending. I have to admit, this makes a lot more sense than "heavy coolers broke it" and would also explain why not everyone using monster tower coolers are having this issue. That combined with the fact that the substrate is rated by intel at the same tensile strength as previous gen CPUs would lead me to believe you may be right. 


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2015 at 9:34am
Twice in my OC'ing days do I wish AMD offered what Intel does.

http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/" rel="nofollow - https://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

To those with warping processors, buy a plan and then sit on it for a couple weeks before turning it over for replacement.

That is if Intel themselves don't come around to owning up to this problem.

hehe Bad Intel


Posted By: DooRules
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2015 at 10:50am
It was i who had the bent pins on two mobo's. Cry

I got lucky and was able to fix the second board with a bent pin. Up and running now and fully functional.

I have no way to be sure but if I had to bet I would lay the problem at the feet of my previous chip. I got an rma for that chip and all good now.

Built many many systems in my time, first time I ever saw bent mobo pins.


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 08 Dec 2015 at 10:51pm
The latest take on this from Cryorig, maker of large CPU coolers.

It only happens on "prebuilt PCs that are shipped or transported by the owners", to paraphrase. Also, CPU coolers with spring mounting pressure screws won't suffer from this issue.

Well DooRules, that really fits your situation... not.

I'm sure that pre-builts like IBuyPower that ship PCs with two '980s in SLI on a $100 board with the stock Intel CPU cooler for Joey gamer boy are worried now. They just sell sooo many PCs with Noctua NH-D15s...

Funny how it seems Intel is not taking much of a hit on this. You are wrong wardog, it's Bad aftermarket CPU cooler, and Bad UPS. Wink

I'll never forget the monitor I had shipped from Newegg that literally had a boot print in the middle of the box. I opened it a bit for fun, the screen was crunched and shattered. The best part was after contacting Newegg, whom sent me a new one, told me the ruined monitor now belonged to UPS. Clap


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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 3:40pm
Coming back to this .......

Updated responses from cooler manufacturers:
Original link in German
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Luftkuehlung-Hardware-217993/News/Skylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237/" rel="nofollow - http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Luftkuehlung-Hardware-217993/News/Skylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237/

Translated via Google Translate
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FLuftkuehlung-Hardware-217993%2FNews%2FSkylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FLuftkuehlung-Hardware-217993%2FNews%2FSkylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237%2F&edit-text=&act=url" rel="nofollow - https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FLuftkuehlung-Hardware-217993%2FNews%2FSkylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcgameshardware.de%2FLuftkuehlung-Hardware-217993%2FNews%2FSkylakegate-Kuehler-zerstoeren-Sockel-1151-CPUs-1179237%2F&edit-text=&act=url


Posted By: FarmerVin
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2016 at 8:26pm
I had this issue with an Asus Maximus Impact VII itx and a Corsair Hydro Series H100i v2.  Board wouldn't post so I went through everything and found a few bent contacts on the socket. 

I have an ASRock replacement arriving today and I'm very nervous about installing this cooler again. I hope my CPU isn't damaged... It doesn't look warped. 

I'll post a picture of the socket. The way the contacts are damaged doesn't look like an over tightening issue, but this is the first time I've ever  experienced something like this.

I  feel like I must be at fault. It's a $230.00 lesson...so far, but I don't feel like I've learned anything from it.


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2016 at 12:45am
Originally posted by FarmerVin FarmerVin wrote:

I had this issue with an Asus Maximus Impact VII itx and a Corsair Hydro Series H100i v2.  Board wouldn't post so I went through everything and found a few bent contacts on the socket. 

I have an ASRock replacement arriving today and I'm very nervous about installing this cooler again. I hope my CPU isn't damaged... It doesn't look warped. 

I'll post a picture of the socket. The way the contacts are damaged doesn't look like an over tightening issue, but this is the first time I've ever  experienced something like this.

I  feel like I must be at fault. It's a $230.00 lesson...so far, but I don't feel like I've learned anything from it.


The Corsair AIO CLC CPU coolers, which I have used in the past, all use a generally identical mounting system for the pump/water block that attaches to the CPU socket. There are four mother board standoffs that only allow so much pressure to be put on the CPU. Once the four "arms" on the water block contact the top of the standoffs, continuing to tighten the four thumb screws does not cause any more pressure on the CPU.

I've broken the threaded part of the standoffs when I tightened them to much, and had to get replacements. I even created my own standoffs with screws and spacers that allowed more pressure to be put on the CPU. I never bent any pins in the socket doing this (but anyone doing something similar must know they are responsible for anything that happens when you don't use the standard parts.)

If the CPU substrate (the green part that looks like a printed circuit board) was bent, you could see it. If you put the CPU on a flat surface, with the bottom of the CPU on that surface, you could see the edges of the substrate not touching the flat surface.

Every time I get a new mother board, the first thing I do is inspect the pins in the CPU socket. Put the mother board in an area where nothing can fall onto it. Have a good light source so you can see the pins easily. Carefully open the the CPU socket. Use a flashlight but don't drop it! Since the pins are so small, it is easier to notice a difference in the appearance of the pattern of the pins than trying to look at each pin. Move the flashlight around to illuminate the pins in different ways.

The CPU fits in the socket only one way, be sure you know the orientation when you put the CPU in the socket.

When you tighten down the water block on any AIO or custom water cooling system, always do the following. This is only for mounting Intel processors:

  1. Be certain the backplate for the water block is mounted correctly on the back of the mother board. The Corsair backplates have two notches that must be aligned with two of the screws holding the CPU socket's backplate in place. Otherwise the cooler's backplate will not be flat and pressing evenly on the bottom of the board.
  2. The Corsair backplates have four spacers that press on the bottom of the mother board, and have a small "crown" that must be located in the holes in the mother board. When the four Corsair standoffs are screwed into the backplate from the top of the board, the backplate should not be very loose once the standoffs contact the mother board. A little bit loose is Ok, and you can add washers under the Corsair spacers to eliminate any looseness of the Corsair backplate.
  3. When you attach the four thumbscrews that press the waterblock onto the CPU, tighten them down in an X pattern. Meaning start, for example, at the lower left thumbscrew, then do the upper right thumbscrew, than lower right and finally upper left. Repeat this pattern, turning the thumbscrews about the same number of turns each time.
  4. Once the thumbscrews no longer turn easily, just firm them up a little bit tighter, and you're done. I like to put a thin washer on each of the four threaded studs of the standoffs, so the pressure from the thumbscrews is more evenly distributed on the arms of the water block.
IMO, the Corsair AIO CPU cooler mounting system is not of the type that can easily damage the pins in the CPU socket. I've used many of them and never bent the pins in the CPU socket.


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Posted By: FarmerVin
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2016 at 1:45am
Thanks for the response. 

I just installed the ASRock ixt. Posted ! no problem. May be something got into the socket on the other one.

I have to agree. I don't think the cooler was the issue. 


Posted By: anu0512
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2017 at 6:23pm
Hi,

Well mine is working fine. I have 6700K and Corsair 100i V2 with Extreme 6+


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 1:14am
Originally posted by anu0512 anu0512 wrote:

Hi,

Well mine is working fine. I have 6700K and Corsair 100i V2 with Extreme 6+


Great, I'm not surprised.

It's been over a year since this thread was started, and this "issue" has not become a problem for Skylake processor owners. I have not seen any mention of this with Kaby Lake processors, or that anything was changed with their construction because this was an issue with Skylake.

Considering the CPU delidding trend among some enthusiasts, if there was a problem with the construction of Skylake processors, we would be hearing about it from them by now.


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Posted By: Ba1bum
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2017 at 6:55pm
" rel="nofollow - Greetings, I'm new here and I registered to clarify some issue with motherboard.

I have a ASRock Z170M-ITX/ac and its missing one socket pin. I suppose that someone broke off improper handling.

As yet I have not tried, I was wondering can it work without one pin and if there is a risk of damaging the processor?

I marked the spot on picture for missing pin - http://i.imgur.com/lhSfVCU.jpg

Thank you!



Posted By: hydrogaming23
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 10:14pm
" rel="nofollow -  I just bought the i7-7700K, and use my old aio watercooling deepcool mailstrom would it be a problem, should i loose some screw just for the safety of it?


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 16 Apr 2017 at 11:41pm
I have not heard any reports of issues with that cooler so it should be fine, just be sure not to over-tighten. I have a Corsair H105 on my 7600k and have not had any issues with warping. I think this issue was largely caused by large, heavy tower coolers in conjunction with moving the PC (jostling).

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Posted By: clubfoot
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 2:07am
Do not mount the cpu if the socket is missing a pin. Replace the motherboard.

Originally posted by Ba1bum Ba1bum wrote:

" rel="nofollow - Greetings, I'm new here and I registered to clarify some issue with motherboard.

I have a ASRock Z170M-ITX/ac and its missing one socket pin. I suppose that someone broke off improper handling.

As yet I have not tried, I was wondering can it work without one pin and if there is a risk of damaging the processor?

I marked the spot on picture for missing pin - http://i.imgur.com/lhSfVCU.jpg

Thank you!



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Posted By: Demon009
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2017 at 12:16pm
i have been using a huge phanteks ph-tx14pe pretty much nh-d15 size with no issues. it does have springs on the screws so they let you know when they are tight enough. but i could see shipping with this thing on causing problems but standard hanging  in my case it seems to be just fine. you could heavy handed possibly over tighten the screws but you would know your doing it as it pretty much hits a stop when the screws depress the spring




Posted By: hhuey5
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 4:26am
I put noctua fans on my h110i / 7940x
hopefully it keeps it cool when i start to try out other feature settings



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