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AM5 ECC support£

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: AMD Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock AMD motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=24901
Printed Date: 21 Apr 2024 at 2:52am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: AM5 ECC support£
Posted By: jekle
Subject: AM5 ECC support£
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2022 at 2:28am
Is there any news about ECC support for new AM5 motherboards? For memory modules like MTC20C2085S1EC48BA1R.



Replies:
Posted By: threadzipper1957
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 7:12pm
Since the memory controller is integrated in the CPU, and not on the board, it would be best to ask AMD support.
Information on AM5 is still under NDA from AMD
Personally I think it should work, but AMD should be able to tell you


-------------
Kind Regards


Posted By: jekle
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2022 at 9:07pm
Seems so that no info yet but CPU support is only one part and historically AMD has quietly supported ECC on non-Pro CPU-s, the big question is that what motherboards have additional lanes and ECC related bios features (hopefully this time also bios level error and repaired bit log-s)


Posted By: eccential
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 11:41pm
When the specifications for X670 boards were first listed, they all said, "Supports DDR5 ECC/non-ECC, un-buffered memory up to 6000+(OC)*"

When B650 boards got listed recently, NONE of their specifications mentioned ECC memory support.

In fact, even the X670 board specifications were changed to remove ECC support, and now they all say, "Supports non-ECC, un-buffered memory up to 6600+(OC)"

Looking through the WayBackMachine (archive.org) history for one of the boards (X670E Taichi), 2022-10-03 version says ECC support, but 2022-10-06 version no longer says ECC support.

When Wendell (of Level1Tech) did his initial review of Zen4, he said he tested ECC function on ASRock board by injecting errors, and it worked.

So what's going on? Is ASRock backtracking on this feature?

Every AM4 motherboard I bought are ASRock. That's 9 of them, including one ASRockRack board. If ASRock stops supporting ECC memory with AM5, I have ZERO reason to buy another ASRock motherboard.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 11:54pm
You will have to contact ASRock Tech support for an answer to that:

event.asrock.com/tsd.asp

If it has been removed it's likely due to something on AMD's end and may come back
with AGESA updates down the road. Out of curiosity, have you seen any other brand
boards still listing it? It is a bit odd if only ASRock pulled the info down.

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Posted By: eccential
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 1:00am
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

Out of curiosity, have you seen any other brand
boards still listing it? It is a bit odd if only ASRock pulled the info down.


Yes, as soon as I noticed the changes in ASRock specification pages, I looked at ASUS page (because I already looked at one of theirs before), and it still says, "ECC and Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory*" for ROG STRIX X670E-I GAMING WIFI

Note ASUS has always limited ECC support to their top-range models, whereas ASRock generally supported ECC on their entire range. I didn't look for other models, as I'm generally only interested in Mini-ITX boards (for small server builds).


Posted By: SkyBeam
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2022 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by eccential eccential wrote:

Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:


Note ASUS has always limited ECC support to their top-range models, whereas ASRock generally supported ECC on their entire range.


Things might have changed. On ASUS tech specs for their currently most-bare PRIME B650-PLUS board the memory support is listing the same statement as for all the other boards:

[quote=ASUS]4 x DIMM, Max. 128GB, DDR5 6400+(OC)/ 6200(OC)/ 6000(OC)/ 5800(OC)/ 5600(OC)/ 5400(OC)/ 5200/ 5000/ 4800, ECC and Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory*


Of course this might be wrong and just not updated to AMDs latest guidelines and AGESA support.
Also you need to be careful as some manufacturers are listing DDR5 to be always ECC-enabled as DDR5 is featuring some On-Die ECC. Of course this does not replace real ECC support including scrubbing and reporting functionality. So it just became harder to get real ECC support and we might have to wait for someone to report results of real tests.


Posted By: eccential
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by SkyBeam SkyBeam wrote:


Also you need to be careful as some manufacturers are listing DDR5 to be always ECC-enabled as DDR5 is featuring some On-Die ECC.


I don't think that is what ASUS is doing because they explicitly explain the difference.

Their specifications say, "ECC and Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory*"

And later in the same page, they have the following explanation for the (*):
"* Non-ECC, Un-buffered DDR5 Memory supports On-Die ECC function"


Posted By: SkyBeam
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2022 at 8:33pm
Originally posted by eccential eccential wrote:

[QUOTE=SkyBeam]
I don't think that is what ASUS is doing because they explicitly explain the difference.


I fully agree. My statement was more towards vendors of memory modules (online shops) which might list DDR5 Non-ECC modules in ECC section or (like my supplier) statting "ECC: Yes" for modules which are clearly Non-ECC (but of course have DDR5 On-Die ECC as it is simply part of the technology).

Still the question remains if ASUS does support ECC across all mainboards and ASRock somehow dropped the support. Or (most likely) ECC will work on both but ASRock does not want to provide official support for it including troubleshooting support so they claim it's "not supported".


Posted By: eccential
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2022 at 7:03pm
Unless Gigabyte "unlaunches" MC13-LE0 and MC13-LE1, the existence of these boards prove that AM5 and Ryzen 7000-series support ECC memory, so what AsRock is doing is more perplexing than ever.

Maybe they decided late to only support ECC memory on AsRockRack boards....


Posted By: ApplesOfEpicness
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2022 at 10:11am
For anyone curious, I have been trying to get ECC to work on ASUS's and ASRock's ITX boards to no avail. However, I have managed to reach out to an AMD engineer, who has confirmed that the issue is on their end, and they are targeting a fix to release in AGESA 1004/1005. No ETA on when they will be available, but at least we know it is an AMD problem/


Posted By: SkyBeam
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2022 at 1:57am
Originally posted by ApplesOfEpicness ApplesOfEpicness wrote:

I have managed to reach out to an AMD engineer, who has confirmed that the issue is on their end, and they are targeting a fix to release in AGESA 1004/1005. No ETA on when they will be available, but at least we know it is an AMD problem/


Many thanks for the update. So as of my understanding ASUS claiming official ECC support but it does not work currently and ASRock seems to have removed advertisement for official ECC support. Both are not supporting it currently in practice.

So if ECC support is going to be in future AGESA updates there is hope that all/most AM5 mainboards will support ECC in the future. ASUS essentially need to as they advertise ECC support and ASRock might be changing their minds as soon as support from AMD finally works.

So let's wait a bit for the upcoming AGESA releases and how mainboard manufacturers will support ECC. Perhaps you can perform the same test again after both manufacturers released updates.


Posted By: ApplesOfEpicness
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2022 at 11:03am
Update from the engineer. The fixes are committed for AGESA 1005. They guess it will come out sometime in Feb 2023.


Posted By: jekle
Date Posted: 17 Dec 2022 at 4:59am
Originally posted by ApplesOfEpicness ApplesOfEpicness wrote:

Update from the engineer. The fixes are committed for AGESA 1005. They guess it will come out sometime in Feb 2023.

Good to hear, was about to need new PC-s early spring.


Posted By: DemonAk
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 3:02pm
Future bioses will support 64gb ecc modules like these?:
https://product.skhynix.com/products/dram/module/rdimm.go" rel="nofollow - https://product.skhynix.com/products/dram/module/rdimm.go
HMCG94MEBQA109N
HMCG94MEBRA109N
HMCG94MEBRA123N
HMCG94MEBQA112N
HMCG94MEBRA121N
HMCG94MEBQA123N
HMCG94MEBRA112N
HMCG94MEBQA121N
it would be great if we can to put 2 modules 2x64gb 4800MHz and overclock them, because today 4x32gb (ddr5 4800 and above) udimm do not work well at frequencies above 3600MHz


Posted By: eccential
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2023 at 7:51pm
Those are all Registered DIMMs. Ryzen won't ever support them.

But I believe we'll end up with 64GB unbuffered DDR5 DIMMs at some point, just as we got 32GB DDR4 DIMMs some time after DDR4 became the major player. Asrock's spec page for X470 Gaming-ITX/ac still says max supported memory is 32GB (16GBx2), but I'm running mine just fine with 32GBx2, so there's that.

Back in the early days of DDR4, the only ECC UDIMMs I could find were 2133MT/s. Nowadays, 3200MT/s is the norm. So I actually want to wait for at least 5200MT/s JEDEC to become the norm for DDR5 ECC UDIMMs before I jump in.


Posted By: jekle
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2023 at 8:36pm
AGESA 1005 bios is downloadable but no update in specification about ECC support yet.


Posted By: ApplesOfEpicness
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2023 at 10:01am
I did some testing with the new BIOS and can confirm ECC is working. https://imgur.com/a/w2jNLNg" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/a/w2jNLNg


Posted By: jekle
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2023 at 12:55am
Good info! Could you expand on what UDIMM module nr and how did you inject the errors?
I suppose then every Asrock X650 and X670 MB with AGESA 1.0.0.5c BIOS then would work if not missing physical parity traces from socket (is there any such?)


Posted By: ApplesOfEpicness
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 9:36am
I am using these modules in the Asrock B650E ITX board: KSM48E40BD8KM-32HM. The way I injected errors is really janky and I don't recommend doing it if you don't have steady hands/don't want to risk your hardware. I just took some tweezers and shorted a data pin to ground (287 & 286). I did the same with DDR4, as well as earlier last year to figure out that ECC wasn't working on AM5, so it wasn't too bad. The BIOS seems to have some ECC injection settings, but I have no idea if they work or not. Memtest86 doesn't seem to be updated yet so I can't try it.

Pinout for reference: https://media-www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/data-sheet/modules/unbuffered_dimm/ddr5/ddr5_udimm_core.pdf?rev=fdbd9476506c4e019360a5e402827caa" rel="nofollow - https://media-www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/data-sheet/modules/unbuffered_dimm/ddr5/ddr5_udimm_core.pdf?rev=fdbd9476506c4e019360a5e402827caa


Posted By: eccential
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 8:40pm
You rock, ApplesOfEpicness!

I've been thinking B650D4U for my next build, along with 7800X3D, but I really prefer the B650E-ITX for my use. And B650D4U probably won't even be available until 2H of 2023.

I highly doubt AsRock would re-design the whole board to remove traces for the DIMM slots, so looks like things are looking good for B650E-ITX. I wonder if AsRock would restore the ECC support in the spec pages....


Posted By: jekle
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2023 at 11:23pm
Shorting data pins sounds really good robust idea for testing. I would've thought to start overclocking or messing with timings to try to get non-crashing bootable state but at the same time with some errors but this balance is hard to achieve. Bios injection settings have not worked before if I remember correctly that there were some on AM4.



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