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Z97M Anniversity OC limit?

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: Intel Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock Intel Motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3754
Printed Date: 20 May 2024 at 3:27am
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Topic: Z97M Anniversity OC limit?
Posted By: TAMW
Subject: Z97M Anniversity OC limit?
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 7:59pm
" rel="nofollow - I have a z97m anniversity and a i5 4670k on watercooling. The cpu oc's ok, but returns to stock after a while under prime95 etc do to some current limitation in the bios im guessing. I have turned off everything there is to turn off in the bios regarding limitations and power saving, but still this happens.

What am I missing?

Im running the latest bios p2.10.

I have thermal glued heatsink on the VRMs, and they are nice and cool.

Can you (asrock) or some handyman provide me a bios where the limits are totally disabled? I have voided the warranty anyway with gluing the sinks on, I just want som badass speeds on my 4670k ;)



Replies:
Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 10:26pm
" rel="nofollow - Limits? There are no limits set on the board or in/by the BIOS !

If P95 kicks it out to a reboot or freezes with a BSOD, then the system/OC isn't stable.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2016 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

" rel="nofollow - Limits? There are no limits set on the board or in/by the BIOS !

If P95 kicks it out to a reboot or freezes with a BSOD, then the system/OC isn't stable.


Go ahead and list out the parts used in your computer. Include the make and model of the PSU. And the PSUs age too.


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 3:20am
So my problem isn't bsod or random restarts, its that the cpu frequency returns to stock after awhile under prime95 loads, then when I stop prime95, it returns to oc frequency again. To me it seems like some current limit or something kicks in.. The higher I have vcore and frequency, the faster this happens.  I have the long duration limit set to 1000, which is max.

Rest of my setup is:

-i5 4670k (loads around at 70c when oc'd, watercooled)
-Coolermaster v1000w, under a year old.
-16gb crucial sport vlp 1600mhz
-msi gtx 1060 6gb


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 6:56am
Water cooled huh ...........

DO NO TOUCH, but place the back of your hand over near the three largish square VRMs located above the CPU socket. While you use water cooling the necessary air flow is removed that would normally blow over them to keep them "cool'.

They should feel warm at a close distance. Not hot enough that there's no way you'd lay your hand on them.

But what you describe to this point with your last post is it appears it's throttling due to the VRMs heating up and kicking in their limit protection.


Yea, post back how hot they are. With water cooling, I'm betting you need a fan over the VRMs now.





Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 10:46am
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

" rel="nofollow - I have a z97m anniversity and a i5 4670k on watercooling. The cpu oc's ok, but returns to stock after a while under prime95 etc do to some current limitation in the bios im guessing. I have turned off everything there is to turn off in the bios regarding limitations and power saving, but still this happens.

What am I missing?

Im running the latest bios p2.10.

I have thermal glued heatsink on the VRMs, and they are nice and cool.

Can you (asrock) or some handyman provide me a bios where the limits are totally disabled? I have voided the warranty anyway with gluing the sinks on, I just want som badass speeds on my 4670k ;)


OMGosh, seriously!?! On a 2 + 1 phase/component VRM design? I don't care how cool the heat sinks on the chips feel, you can still kill them with current draw. That the heat sinks are "nice and cool" tells me they are not working as well as you think they are.

I just ran a "wimpy" Intel IXTU stress test on my i5-6600K at 4.4GHz. The 12 phase VRM temperature was ~111° F, with three 140mm intake fans, two 140mm exhaust fans, and 120mm + 140mm fans on the CPU cooler. 111° F is warm to the touch, which I would not classify as "nice and cool", but that's just me.

Since you are asking how to potentially destroy your board, which you would eventually discover on your own I imagine (unless the UEFI protects it from destruction), I'll do that sooner than later. I have your documented request to kill your board preserved in this post.

But first my modified Disclaimer, borrowed from ASRock:

Please realize that there are certain is a definite risk involved with overclocking on your board, including adjusting the options in the BIOS, applying Untied Overclocking Technology, or using third-party overclocking tools. Overclocking may affect your system's stability, or even most likely cause damage to the components and devices of your system. It is done at your own
risk and expense. I am not responsible for damage caused by overclocking.

Have you configured these options in OC Tweaker to their maximum settings? Higher numbers are moar powah.

Long Duration Power Limit

Long Duration Maintained

Short Duration Power Limit

Primary Plane Current Limit

Of course you have disabled:

CPU Integrated VR Faults

CPU Integrated VR Efficiency Mode

Power Saving Mode


Another thing you can do is install Intel IXTU, where you might be able to modify all the Power Limits and Duration's beyond what is allowed in your UEFI. Sorry, the forums link tool chokes on URLs with a '?' in them, so highlight the link text below, left click on it and select an Open option:

https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/24075/Intel-Extreme-Tuning-Utility-Intel-XTU-?product=66427

I'm not suggesting this as an over clocking tool (although it is actually very good, but not considered cool by some OC enthusiasts) but as a way to achieve what you want to do. It might also show you what is causing your OC to throttle to stock speeds.

The display on the Stress Test screen, on the lower right in blue, has many options not shown by default. Click on the blue wrench icon on the far right to reveal a list of everything that can be displayed and monitored. The parameters you should monitor include:

Thermal Throttling

Power Limit Throttling

Current Limit Throttling

Motheboard VR Thermal Throttling


If you see any of those displayed as Yes during stress testing, you've reached a limit.

How long is "after a while", when the CPU switches to stock clock speeds? Assuming your CPU temperature is below 100° C, then the following would explain the change in CPU speed.

If it is a short time, under one minute, that is a UEFI/system imposed power/current limit throttle.

If it takes longer than one minute, it is probably a VR (Voltage Regulator) over temperature power throttling.

Intel recently added a list of things that their newer processors will flag as Performance Limit Reasons. My Skylake processor has 31 different Performance Limit Reasons. I forget how many my Haswell processors have. Some are not applicable to an OC, but if you want to monitor those parameters, run the HWiNFO64 Sensor display.

The first and only time I ever had any CPU thermal throttle was my i5-4670K, on an ASRock Z87 Extreme6 board (12 Phase VRM.) Hit 100C running AIDA64 stress test with a Corsair AIO cooler in a minute or two. Haswell runs hot hot hot!! Nuke

There is Zero chance ASRock will provide a custom UEFI/BIOS to bypass any power limits that might be programmed into the UEFI. A 'Z' board should be wide open regarding power settings, but the ability of the board's VRMs to supply that power is a different situation, and certainly not a given for every board.



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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 5:40pm
Haha, so you are probably 100% correct here, I measured around 90c on the vrm sinks when the cpu throttle happens. When I felt them as "nice and cool" I was running air cooling, so they had good flow. I cant believe I didnt think of this :P

I'll try mounting a fan over the sinks. I'll report back.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 7:02pm
Hahahaha, Like I said DO NOT touch them. Back in the Athlon XP days I left some seared skin on some hot sinks.

Dang guy. 90c is 194degF !!!

And yes. A fan style CPU cooler distributes air over the surrounding parts. Using a water cooler doesx zero zip zilch to cool these parts. If you look in the manual for your cooler it most likely states when installing the water cooler to place a fan over these parts.

Unfortunately, I'm with parsec on this boards 2+1 VRMs having not much chance to net you the OC you're hoping for. There just isn't the room for a decent spread of VRMs to accomplish much OC'ing on a micro-ATX motherboard.




Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 10:14pm
Adding a fan solved the problem of course, they're now loading on 48c.. Let the OC commence =)

I have been overclocking my sh*t for 10-11 years myself, I even held the WR for highest frequency on the AMD x2 4400+ on socket 939 for a while with 3513mhz on dry ice. I had 3630mhz also validated, but my usb stick goofed and corrupted everything on it so didnt get it to ripping.org sadly :P

Haven't been doing much oc'ing other than on water with socket 1366 since then tho for my gaming rig.

I dont know why brain farted so bad and I missed the vrm cooling XD

Thank you both for helping :)

I dont hope for any insane results considering the cpu temps are in the 60s on just 4ghz 1.15v, but atleast I wont get vrm throttled now!

Heres some pics of the 103% ghetto rig this is concerning:

The copper plate under the gpu is for shielding my soundcard from (((nvidia coilwhine))), hehe.




Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 10:23pm
The OCD in me just blew a gasket LOL

You need a bigger case Wacko


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 11:21pm
Rly? I think I need a smaller case, I feel violated off this already huge beast! :P

I have been running itx systems the last few years, but had to give that awsome formfactor up for better temps  and I missed my dvd drive and card reader. This is the z97m setup, tho with gtx970 before I got the current case: (keep the nitro tablets close by, Xaltar) :P




Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 11:48pm
(Comment on the PC in the first pictures...)

IT LIVES!!!  IT LIVES!!!  

Not really ghetto at all, except for what appears to be a piece of duct tape on the front of the case.

My cable management OCD has me reaching at the monitor... must fix... must fix...

But it's the case itself that makes or breaks cable management, only so much can be done if the case will cooperate.

I'm 99.9% certain you had VRM throttling, given your description.

Plus how could that not happen in your situation, the classic liquid cooling side affect, little or zero air flow over the VRM chips and heat sink... if you have heat sinks, which you do now. I hope idle temperatures of the heat sinks were cool.

Ya know, now that I see you're not some kid wanting to OC with the stock Intel CPU cooler (exaggerating here), I'm changing my mind, sorry to be a cynic! Thumbs Up  It's not crazy to use that board to OC, it's just a challenge!!

I hope you can OC like crazy, and the VRMs survive, things should be better now that they are being actively cooled. I want you to prove you can OC your CPU with a minimal VRM stage. I read a thread at OCN about the VRM chips being used in various boards, and how some users select boards based upon which VRM chips are being used, the basic circuit design, and even the VRM controllers being used. Meanwhile all the boards in question have 10 or 12 phase/chip designs, or even more.

Modern Intel processors don't use that much power, even when over clocked. Extreme OC with dry ice, etc, is another thing, with ultra high VCore, but at least the VRM chips are half frozen too!

Good luck man, did you get all the info you needed?




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Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 11:51pm
Small builds are challenging to keep tidy and with decent airflow. I take it your CPU cooler was blowing air up into the PSU extractor fan?

Amusingly these pics are less scary than the other ones Tongue

I am somewhat obsessed with cable management and airflow in my builds and space isn't an issue for me so I tend to favor larger cases. I am working on an mATX scratch build atm though but not gotten much past cutting out a few templates in cardboard. Still trying to hash out placement of all the components to keep it as small as possible while maintaining decent airflow. Once I have a design finalized I will send the templates to get cut in acrylic, if I get that far Tongue

Thanks for sharing Thumbs Up 


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 2:42am
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:


Good luck man, did you get all the info you needed?


Got what I needed, yes thanks :)

Unfortunatly, you did predict correct before regarding not getting far oc'ing, as soon as I started raising vcore up towards 1.3v, it throttles down again. Haven't measured the vrm temps yet, but im guessing they are high. Only have small alu sinks glued on, and not a very hefty fan.

I think I might have to settle on 4.2ghz 1.25v and 4ghz cache for now, cpu also get mighty hot (80c+).

Maybe later I will try to get some better cooling solution on the vrms, and the cpu is actually delidded but running with the ihs on now as it whouldnt start without it. Guessing not enough pressure on that mount, but i'll get that running later on.

Will have to see tho, Im keeping my hopes up for all open AMD Zen :) After 2.gen i7 hit and baseclock oc'ing was out the door it kinda took the fun out of it for me with the whole "Z & K oc only"


Xaltar
, custom built case eh? That sounds kind of interesting. Had the thought before, but never had the will power to actually start on it :P I saw someone (ncase maybe?) that have recently made a new matx case VERY small with watercooling in mind, but I think it was very expensive, and import to Norway is 25% extra added, so no go for me there.

The ocd I was born without, for me its just "get it working" hehe.



Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 4:13am
It can get very pricey if you use kits but not if you get it done by a glass shop. The problem is that it takes a lot more work doing it this way. Measurements, mock ups, more measurements then adjust etc etc until you have it all worked out then strip it down, tidy the templates and take them in to get cut out of acrylic. It gets even cheaper if you use parts from old cases like the mobo tray and back plate.

I don't know if I will find the time to get my design done but I am determined to complete a scratch build one day Approve


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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 5:30am
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

Adding a fan solved the problem of course, they're now loading on 48c..


Huh. Ya Think? Tongue Funny how that works.

Sometimes it's better to have a brain fart than it is to look around and blame the dog LOL

Nice kit you have there.


Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

You need a bigger case Wacko


My vote is NO case. Instead one of those commercially built test bench. Or one of those Thermaltake get ups like DooRules here has.

Why, if I tried something like that I'd spend all my time keeping the wiring from going dingdingdingding up against a fan Wink



Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 7:54am
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

Small builds are challenging to keep tidy and with decent airflow. I take it your CPU cooler was blowing air up into the PSU extractor fan?


Forgot to reply.. Yes, I switched out the original psu fan to a noctua and ran it on 12v, air out the backside was quite hot during gaming Tongue

wardog are you running your amd UNDERCLOCKED??? What the fug man. LOL

Getting a Zen when it comes out? Gotta be pretty soon now I hope.

I haven't ran AMD since early 2010, but was always fun!



Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 8:34am
Hey now. I just built this one ~2wks ago.

Underclocked? Fug you!LOL I'll have you know it's rock solid at 5.1Ghz, and that with AMDs poor FX IMC implementation yet still with 32GB(4x8GB) no less.

5.1Ghz w/32GB in my book ain't too shabby. I have a hoard of G.Skill here and my last two 4GB matched sticks of Samsung "Green Weenie' memory here I need to use instead of trying with this 32GB. But early results here is looking like I won the Silicon lottery with this 9590 I have.

My other boxes were stole enroute while moving to Arizona:

ASRock Z77 Extreme6/i7-3770K/Seasonic/H80i/32Gb G.Skill 2133
Asrock 990FX Professional/FX-8150/Seasonic/H80i/32Gb G.Skill 2133
ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+/ A10-6800K/Seasonic/H80i/32Gb G.Skill 1866


I've been using AMD solely for over 25yrs now. That is until parsec talked me into that 3770K kit like 2 or 3 years ago.

I needed this 8-core workhorse to get my VMs up-n-running. A comparable Intel 8-core was not in the budget, obviously, being it would have been an Intel server chip.

AMD Fxs more than pull their weight running VMs. I'm extremely pleased with it. That 9590 and a pair of HP NC364T 4-port NICs and I've been off to the races since.




Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 8:52am
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

Getting a Zen when it comes out? Gotta be pretty soon now I hope.


You have one guess there if I am or not. Choose wisely Grasshopper!


Zen = Intel Slayer Wink


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2016 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

My other boxes were stole enroute while moving to Arizona:

ASRock Z77 Extreme6/i7-3770K/Seasonic/H80i/32Gb G.Skill 2133
Asrock 990FX Professional/FX-8150/Seasonic/H80i/32Gb G.Skill 2133
ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+/ A10-6800K/Seasonic/H80i/32Gb G.Skill 1866


Holy moly, that sucks. Moving is a bitch, but moving cross country is such a pain in the corn hole.

5,1ghz, thats gotta produce some heat! Have you delidded it? Or did AMD start soldering them on too? I delidded my i7 950 on 1366 that was soldered on with some razor blades and a lighter, but only lowered temp by 1 or 2 degrees C, so not worth the hassle.

Now you got me fired up on AMD again, fug my intel sh*t its out the door when Zen hits LOL
(just make me a badass matx board) Big smile

Still have my old 939 24/7 board DFI Lanparty NF4-D and Opteron 175 CCBBE 0613Rpmw running 3.2ghz stable with 4gb OCZ EB sticks 3-3-3-8 @ 268mhz in a retro rig here on water :P (down right now as I had to borrow some parts for the z97m setup, but will get it up and running soon again :)

Here is som old rarities I have for 939 and ATI (and my trusty NF4-D, don't frown at her ASRock guys, she m'lady) Tongue :

Opteron 190 for socket 939. 2.8ghz stock, never released as far as I understand.



Sapphire x1950pro dual gpu, only saw a couple reviews on it back in the day and it came after 8800gtx so was already outclassed, dont know it it ever got released, but very rare nontheless.



And my DFI





Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 1:52am
Ahh yes. The 939 house heaters.

Somewhere her I still have my 10 Opty's I ran when folding. That room got 5 circuit breakers all it's own. 165's and  180's, all OC'ed on 3 ASUS A8NE's, 3 DFI UT Ultra-D's's, and the best Oc'ers among them ran on 4 DFI LanParty UT SLI-Dr's. All my NF4 boards raan with the same exact EverCool chipset cooler as you picture.

Long live Ockar Wu and his outrageous BIOSes he rolled while DFI still produced consumer boards. Oskar had a knack, and knowledge. Too, he did his magic at Abit before going to DFI.

Christ, I installed two, TWO, window AC units and had some ghetto plumbing using that flexible dryer duct hose plumbing the backs of all of 'em hoping to keep the room bearable when I was doing monthly maintenance to 'em.

.....

Ha! I do!They didn't steal them. PTL Wink

Remember the high faluttin' magical G.Skill F1-4000USU2-2GBHZ kits? And the HZ Cheat Sheet that someone, forget now, from DFIStreet put together? I still have, and always will!, two 2GB kits of these HZ's. G.Sklill fanatic that I am. It was these kits from way back yonder that sold me on G.Skill and to this day I won't use anything but G.Skill. Even when I was building for customers up in MI, they all got G.Skill memory. No ifs ands or buts.

Those 10 boxes kept me in the Top 100 in The World for points produced daily.

Magical times indeed. With fondness I look back at 'em.



The 9590 @ 5.1 on all eight? Actually not too awful bad in the heat dept. The H115i keeps her cool regardless. Well, Ok. She does get warm but not toasty when I might run Prime wide open but I don't do that often here. And certainly not more than maybe 10 minutes.. I get shivers that folks still, still, will run P95 for 24hrs. All to prove what exactly? I dunno. But talk about drastically, dramatically??, shortening the life span of a processor. And I honestly believe most don't even think of the lasting damage done while doing so. Amazing. Simply amazing.

The, two yrs down the road they appear here complaining that their ASRock board is having issues with memory that's ran since then when in fact it's likely their IMC is nearing the peter out stage from days and days of running P95 when first built. i do not get it sometimes. I just don't.






Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 2:03am
This thread is gold Smile

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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2016 at 3:28am
HAHA, yes I remember there being a 24/7 prime club on some forum XD Gave me a good chuckle LOL

I used to do a 12hour "burn in" on high volts on 939 when I got a NIB cpu, which seemed to help stability on higher oc :)

Nowadays I don't bother, dunno if it even helps anything anymore.

Same times as you on prime stress testing, 10min tops. Like when are the cpu going to run 100% load for more than 5 seconds in normal usage? :P In the 939 days it were a different story tho, as the cpus didn't pack that big of a punch, decoding stuff could take hours!

G.skill I have limited experience with, as I was a bh5/ch5 guy and I cant remember them offering anything like that. Had tons of OCZ VX sticks, my best ones ran 280mhz 2-2-2-7-1T @ 3.41v on my old DFI NF4 SLI-DR Venus (think it was board 872/1000), higher volts only made them more unstable. Venus died after I sold it to a friend, but the VX set is still alive =D

I did have one set of g.skill tho, a 1gb set pc4800 tccd.. They were quite good, 325mhz 2.5-4-4-8-1T  3dmark01 stable, cant remember volt, must have been 2.9v or something.


I never did any folding or such, but your ghetto ac plumbing story gave me a good laugh and made me think of something with my before mentioned friend that killed my Venus board..
He's into folding, hwbot points etc, and his autismo in the field is fuggin world class!

I was visiting him a few years ago and we decided it whould be fun to do some AMD oc'ing. He had prepped a quad socket AMD server board with copper sinks all over the vrms and custom mounted waterblocks, and we ducktaped radiators in the window, sucking the cold outside air in (it must have been -10c outside) The system had a total of 64 cores/threads, cant remember the socket name but you could access volt control/fsb etc via software in OS. I think it was wprime 1024 WR we were going for that day.

I think we ended up with 4.7ghz on all cores with around 1.47vcore, we ALMOST got the WR but on one of the runs we actually maxed out a corsair AX1200, drawing 1550w or something like that out of the wall socket, making the psu shut of..  in only cpu load! LOL The air coming through the radiators in was hot!

Good times :)


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 2:26am
Got all quiet in here, have I stayed past my welcome? :P

Btw wardog, I read that the zen 8core will cost around 300 usd, but a "oc friendly" variant will be 500 usd.. Does this mean they have locked the cheaper ones from all overclocking you think? Or just that the $500 one is open multiplier maybe?

Sure hope you still can fsb oc the cheaper ones like before :)

Here is a couple of pics of the 4p oc rig I talked about in the previous post:




Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 3:36am
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:


Btw wardog, I read that the zen 8core will cost around 300 usd, but a "oc friendly" variant will be 500 usd.. Does this mean they have locked the cheaper ones from all overclocking you think? Or just that the $500 one is open multiplier maybe?


Rumor so far. Not one speculation, only rumors.

I'd have imagined, this close to release, we'd have heard of this shift sooner. Much sooner.

Probably some Intel Fanboy doing double duty at her keyboard spouting off hoping it gets traction and ink.



And no. Everyone is Welcome here for as long as they'd like. Or that is until Xaltar or parsec Ban them Tongue


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 4:33am
Ban? Me? Never Tongue

Everyone is welcome here, well everyone except spammers, trolls and flamers, those I take great pleasure in banning Evil Smile

Keep the awesome posts and pics coming Thumbs Up


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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 2:35pm
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

Got all quiet in here, have I stayed past my welcome? :P

Btw wardog, I read that the zen 8core will cost around 300 usd, but a "oc friendly" variant will be 500 usd.. Does this mean they have locked the cheaper ones from all overclocking you think? Or just that the $500 one is open multiplier maybe?


I've read there will be three levels of Zen processors, from top to bottom, SR7, SR5, and SR3. The following is unofficial rumors, mainly the clock speeds and price.

The over clocking SR7 model(s?) is said to be ~$300, which is an eight core, 16 thread CPU. That price is Intel's four core, eight thread territory... on sale. Clock speeds of the SR7 seems to be very similar to Intel's current Haswell-E and Broadwell-E, at ~3.5GHz, a bit more with Turbo. OC headroom is about the same as the Intel's just mentioned, 4.2GHz being typical average on air. The IPC of Zen is supposed to be competitive with the current Intel HEDT processors. The similar Intel 8 core, 16 thread CPU is twice that price.

If AMD can pull off these rumors, or stay close, they will have a winner IMO. If the guys that call 1% - 5% lower performance difference compared to Intel "wiping the floor with it", "blowing it away", or "if it's not better than Intel, it's no good", influence too many people, then AMD may have a problem.

If the AMD fans can actually bring themselves to buy a new mother board (that always kills me, yeah a five+ year old chipset is just fine... not) then Zen has a chance IMO. Or if they can't swallow the price of a processor above $100 (to put in their $50 board... come on people, get serious!) then Zen will have trouble in the PC world. But AMD may save themselves in the Enterprise world, with near Intel performance for a much lower price (who really loves those $4K Xeons.)

I'm an Intel person, but I truly hope for the best from Zen. Intel is plenty fat now, they can lose a few bucks and be fine.


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Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 4:00pm
I couldn't agree more Parsec. 

Some things AMD has done right imo:

1. Marketing the Zen lineup years ahead of release, this means many AMD fans will have been holding off for Zen so will likely result in a boom of sales close to release.
2. This is probably not intentional but still plays in AMD's favor, the fact that AMD has not had a new socket in so very long means people upgrading will feel they have really gotten their money's worth out of their current systems.
3. Switching to more conventional cores with Zen, this means a more even playing field that isn't reliant on different usage examples for proper comparison between AMD and Intel. While Bulldozer and it's derivatives were very successful in their own right they compared poorly to intel from day one because software never really caught up to the technology and even when it started to it was typically only optimized for up to 4 cores (game engines are the main culprit here). Even today many game titles do not properly optimize for more than 4 cores which means half of an 8 core FX CPU is being under or improperly utilized. In the few games that are optimized to take advantage of the 4 module 8 thread FX we see very competitive performance with intel. Zen will remove the "in the few titles" from the equation and allow AMD to compete directly in all titles. This is assuming they live up to the rumors and hype, at least largely.
4. Merging APUs and regular CPUs onto a single socket, this will likely encourage motherboard sales in a big way.

I could go on but from where I sit, AMD looks poised to really shake up the market when ZEN hits, it would be tragic if despite all this they fall short.


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 6:16pm
" rel="nofollow - Interesting times for sure =)

Definitely consider myself an AMD guy at heart.

When I first bought my first pc in 2005, AMD was riding high with socket 939. I remember we used to have heated AMD vs Intel discussions in school and on lan parties, good fun :D

I was was so dissapointed when I found out the am2 cpu's were just k8 with ddr2 and even the first phenoms on this shiny new arcitecture didnt perform, that I kept my 939 setup with the DFI NF4-d, opteron 175 @ 3.2ghz and 4gb ram until the summer of 2009! Cuz I sure as hell wasn't getting any Intels inside the house walls XD

Finally when I upgraded to AM2+ and a x2 250, I cant say I was impressed. I then got a phenom2 940, which was pretty good but oc'd garbage. And then at last a phenom2 965 that ran 4.1ghz on water.

All was good and FPS was flowing, but I decided to take a trip to my old home town and didnt bother bringing my monster rig with me. And of course after about a week in, I almost went crazy without my pc.
So I went on the used sales sites and found a local dude that had a x48 board with a c2d 7500 dualcore. "Heck it, I'll just sell it when I get back home again, no-one will know"

But damn, that e7500 oc'd like a maniac on a little air cooler (up towards 4ghz). And performed like my quad core phenom2, about the same atleast.

So I get home again (left the c2d rig at my moms house in my old home town), and that phenom2 rig were suddently not that hot lookin' anymore.

A day didn't even go by, and by coincidence my friend that I mentioned in my previous posts (he goes by knopflerbruce on the forums btw) offered me a x58 board with a i7 920 and 6gb ram pretty cheap (was early 2010 by this point).

"Now what is this, x58 huh? Yea ok"

From this point on, I reluctanty have called myself "an Intel guy"
I absolutely LOVED socket 1366! The performance was mindblowingly insane, and you could overclock ANYTHING. Even 6 core xeons! On pretty much any motherboard!
I had so many 1366 cpus and boards.. I even had the Evga SR-2 dual socket board with 2x x5670's running 4.5ghz!

When sandy bridge came along, I got onboard pretty quick. And now what is this, I need a "K" cpu to oc it? ok, so I buy. with a H61 board... I need a "Z" chipset? What the hell? So I buy.
Cant even oc the 2600k with baseclock. multiplier and vcore. wow, so fun. Not. And not even the performance of a i7 970!

After this, I have bought pretty much every new platform, but went back to x58 or p55 after a while again out of boredom, back and forth. And just watched from the sideline AMD getting into more trouble.

SO.. Now I really hope like you said that Zen lives up to the hype and really performs! Not because I need better performance. But to make it FUN again!

Fully open cpu's and chipsets for overclocking is so much fun! And to make people talk about it again! That friction is so good to have :)

Can't wait for January, keeping the fingers crossed! =D


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2016 at 6:51pm
My experience with overclocking goes back to the intel 486 SX 25 which was the first CPU I owned that wasn't either in my family's PC or so old it couldn't run windows. I remember getting it to run at 40mhz (vs my parent's 486 DX4 100) with jumpers and oh man was I excited. I thought I had discovered the holy grail and that I was the first one to do it, trick the board into thinking my CPU was a faster model LOL It didn't take long before I discovered that this was called overclocking and that people did it all the time, even back then Embarrassed

I had overclocked 8086s before that but from 4 to 8mhz or 8 to 16mhz but that hardly seemed impressive and made little difference when you couldn't even run windows 3.1 on them. I also didn't know what the stock clocks on them were so for all I knew that was normal.... My SX 25 was my first real overclock on a current(ish) system.

The next system I really got excited about was centered around one of these bad boys:

 

The notorious (for the time) Celeron 300a. I got mine up to 700mhz with some very creative cooling but ran it at 633mhz with a monstrous heatsink and a pair of 120mm delta fans pilfered from an old server for day to day use. I don't think I have seen another CPU overclock to more than 200% of it's stock frequency since then. I kept that system for years before giving it to my wife (then girlfriend). 

Around the same time I discovered AMD's K6 range of CPUs, most notably the K6 III which could run (all K6s did) on older pentium socket 7 or "Super Socket 7" boards as were later released with an AGP slot and SDRAM support. I had a bunch of these as they allowed me to revive much older systems and have them perform as well as and sometimes better than the more current Pentium II/III.

Sadly, all my best overclocking CPUs have always been intel despite my love of AMD. I don't consider myself a fanboi of either though, I am a fan of the tech itself and typically own both Evil Smile  


-------------


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 5:13am
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

The notorious (for the time) Celeron 300a. I got mine up to 700mhz with some very creative cooling but ran it at 633mhz with a monstrous heatsink and a pair of 120mm delta fans pilfered from an old server for day to day use.


Wow, thats impressive! That is the first pentium platform, yes? Kinda wish I was a little older in the 90's, lots of fun tech around then :) Was there vcore adjustments in bios/jumpers back then, or only mods?

Tho I have played around a little with some of that stuff now in later times thanks to a decade older friend of mine, he also loved the 90s stuff and has multiple systems of 486, p1, p3 etc.. He always has some stories to tell about how they tricked around with hw in that time, before the internet became common place in every household. Very cool :)

I too had a delta 80mm that I bought (mistake :P) with my first system in 2005. My then x2 4400+ CCBWE oc'd like sh*t, think I had 1.6v on it for 2.7ghz. I stuffed wet chunks of paper in my ears before I went to sleep at night while my downloads were going :P

Here is a picture of the Opteron 175/DFI/x1900xtx rig I ran until 2009:




Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 5:48am
Love that case, I would mod the hell out of that thing Evil Smile

The Celeron 300a (Mendocino) was a Slot 1 CPU so it was a cut down version of the Pentium II. The whole slotted CPU design came about because of cache shortages so CPU manufacturers got around it by using a daughter board system with different cache ICs that could be found more easily. Once the shortages were over we saw the birth of the first Pentium 3 (Coppermine) Socket 370 CPUs. 

I used a high end server board (I forget the model now) for my 300a which had jumpers that allowed me to manually set the BCLK all the way up to 166mhz via jumpers on the board, that combined with some insane voltage mods and cooling got my 700mhz result that stood as a record briefly among my co workers at the time. You have to bare in mind this was some years later and we didn't care if we burned up the CPUs we were playing with Tongue My cooling solution involved coating the entire motherboard and CPU+heatsink in thick non conductive grease and encasing the entire CPU in ice except for it's slot edge connector. I then submerged the entire motherboard in an ice-water filled bucket turned it on and waited for the sparks to fly. They didn't and I briefly got to see the glorious 700mhz figure on the post screen before the water began to boil and I shut it off LOL  We must have fried a dozen or so old boards experimenting with various overclocks and cooling methods in those days. If I had known about LN2 back then...... Interestingly HWbot only has 2 Celeron 300a entries of 700mhz and over, that was one hell of a CPU, I wish I still had it. I need to correct my last post, I ran mine at 533mhz 24/7 not 633.... typo.... Most hit 450mhz easily even on stock cooling. You also have to bare in mind we didn't have access to advanced coolers back then, it was either stock, slightly better than stock or completely home brew Wink I think I was in my late teens/early 20s back then and a little too careless with my kit now that I look back on it Embarrassed

I was so frustrated when one of my co workers managed 733mhz on his AMD K6 III 550, we were trying to see if any of us could get close to the 1ghz of the as yet unavailable at the time Pentium III coppermine 1ghz CPU that had just been released. He ended up winning the competition and a month of Friday afternoons off. Our boss was a blast and always came up with fun/crazy team competitions and team building exercises. I still maintain it wasn't fair, 550mhz to 733mhz was nothing compared to 300 to 700mhz Ouch


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 9:54am
HAHAHAHA! Now that is awsome! Work related overclocking-offs XD That ice water setup I can just picture in my head, marvelous LOL

Suicide runs on cpus is hella fun! The first time we saw 4ghz on a 939 cpu was ecstatic!

I did too play with ice water (nowhere near as crazy as your setup) but I had the luxury of 2006 :P Just dumped lots of icecubes in a big zalman alu res, and left my garrage door open (Sat in the garrage during oc sessions) with -10-15c outside..  Didnt get any results that session as both my cpu and gpu were badly coldbugged.

I later started working at a meat factory where they had a dice making machine that made powder dry ice like snow. Got it for free too, and got fresh beef, sausages, meatballs etc for like 80% off in the employee surplus store on site. Think I gained 10kg that year :P

The case is a chieftech mesh, it got the job done after some cutting and drillingWink Got quite a few disgusted looks from the "normies" at the big 5000+ people lanparties LOL



The gathering 2009 in Hamar, Norway..



Some Sli-DR Venus benching



And some dice chilled coke while the pot warms up again :P




Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2016 at 2:40pm
On another note, it seems like a perfect timing for Amd Zen in january.. I just got Battlefield 1 today, and it totaly maxes out my poor i5 LOL

100% load on cpu, and on the biggest and busy'est maps with 64 players with fog effects it stutters like crazy. gpu and memory controller load in gpuz isnt near 100.

Whouldn't have guessed a oc'd 4. gen i5 getting into trouble so soon :P

An actual valid reason to upgrade? Nice. Clap


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

An actual valid reason to upgrade? Nice. Clap


An actual valid reason to upgrade!! Nice. Clap


You must stop posting before that first morning coffee .....

Tongue


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 10:41pm
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

Hehe. My friend knopflerbruce came to the rescue and sent me a i7 4790k to use in the meantime Smile

When I wake up tomorrow, AFTER I'VE HAD MY COFFEE, i'll give that sucker a run for its transistors! Evil Smile

No I forgot..(z97m anniversity) But my VRMs will definetly have some fun! LOL

Squeel like a big they will.



Sorry dude, but that video was a bit much...

Actually, the screen shot that shows a BIOS firmware interface was more disgusting.

And yes, the VRMs will be on their knees with an i7-4790K, be sure to use an old version of Prime95 that uses AVX2 instructions if you want to release the blue smoke... Dead


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 11:30pm
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:


Sorry dude, but that video was a bit much...


Damn, just when it was getting fun!?

There's just me and you mods watching, z97m anniversity has no RGB disco lights.. No kid will click on this thread LOL

But I gotcha.
Lets just hope the 4790k won't be so hungry for the volts =)


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2016 at 11:45pm
My 6600k runs at 1.23v stock, not so great for overclocking sadly. Most non ES 6600k CPUs run at about 1.1v stock so I am 123mv high from the start Confused

This little guy only manages about 4.4ghz before voltages and temps get out of hand, even using an AIO Corsair H105. My Z170 Pro4s is about the equivalent to your Z97 Anniversary but from the skylake lineup. I have added beefier VRM cooling to it but it hasn't opened any doors regarding overclocking unfortunately. It does look better tho....


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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 12:00am
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:


If the AMD fans can actually bring themselves to buy a new mother board (that always kills me, yeah a five+ year old chipset is just fine... not) then Zen has a chance IMO. Or if they can't swallow the price of a processor above $100 (to put in their $50 board...


Yea, right. Like keeping up with the Jones when Intel comes out with another socket/chipset every two years is any fun.

Aren't you, Xaltar, and myself  having a current discussion of the WAF somewhere here?


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2016 at 12:04am
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

Aren't you, Xaltar, and myself  having a current discussion of the WAF somewhere here?


LMAO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wife_acceptance_factor

See MIF: Marriage Interference Factor


That sums it up.


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 11:19pm
Threw in the i7 4790k yesterday, and holy damn that thing was hot! over 80c on the hottest core on STOCK.

Investigated the contact, and of course that IHS fugger was bent like a banana.
So I lapped the cpu, and it got a bit better, dropped 10-15c or so.
Got it running 4.4ghz 1.15v and primes at about 75-78c on the hottest core. Not too bad, but not alot of headroom either. Not that it matters, cpu is drawing 130w during prime, so vrms throttles in about a minute.

I tried dropping vcore to 1.1v, primes fine, but get random restarts so Im just running it at 4.4 1.15v now. won't get anywhere near 100% load for long periods anyway.

Battlefield now runs smooth atleast, 60-70% cpu load on average. Smile

Will hold me comfy until a nice matx zen board comes along LOL


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2016 at 11:29pm
C'mon man. Now who's underclocking, huh? Tongue

I just built this one up this week. And this is using Auto OC in the BIOS, Kiddie Style Big smile








Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 3:08pm
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

using Auto OC in the BIOS


This thread has gotten out of hand. Stock frequencies, AUTO OC... We should be ashamed of ourselves!

Hehe.

I was quite impressed by the performance of the igpu on skylake, a friend of mine ran World of Warcraft just to see when he had to rma his gtx 970, and to both of our surprise it ran almost smooth whith his normal settings! Pretty cool.

BTW, what is "system agent clock" in your picture? And the uncore, is that the NB frequency itself or something in the cpu?


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 3:25pm
Uncore is in reference to the CPU cache. It has been called a few different things depending on the manufacturer.

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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2016 at 3:48pm
Ah yes thats right..


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 12:11am
Btw guys, what do you recommend for a new SSD for my OS?

I bought a bunch of OCZ Agility 3 disks back in 2010/11, none of them have failed me but I figure its time to switch them out BEFORE they die :P I've switched between them for my main os every reinstall or so to spread out the hours, this is my current:



I dont really care if its the fastest ssd, I just want quality that last for 5+ years!
I have a 500gb Samsung EVO for my games, so won't need more than 120-240gb for OS and programs etc..

I've heard people satisfied with the Samsung PRO 840 series in the past..
Any other suggestions?


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 12:23am
The TLC Toshiba/OCZ Trion 150's I have here are reasonably priced and don't carry Samsungs premium 3D price attached. They've a 3yr warranty though.

See what those fetch there in Norway though. Some items in the EU are, for reasons I don't fully understand, reasonably priced while other items seem double in what they should be.


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 6:16pm
" rel="nofollow - They are pretty cheap here too. I'm gonna keep my eyes open for good deals (black friday/cyber monday was pretty much nothing in the SSD department)

I may wait until I have a Zen mobo in my sights that have the m2 pcie port. Those SSDs are abit more expensive tho.

Did you guys get any good deals this past weekend?

Pretty much the only thing I got were the new arma 3 map 50% off, and battlefield 1 earlier in the week 33% off.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 6:32pm
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:


Did you guys get any good deals this past weekend?


My Wife made sure the only deal I got was a Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5" for $129.99USD.

Which is fine I guess seeing I spent ~$1,000.00US last week on that i7-6700K getup in a Tt Core X9 case. My new test bench it is. Horizontal MB and room enough for both elbows in there.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


Tt Core X9 case. My new test bench it is. Horizontal MB and room enough for both elbows in there.

Pure win!


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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 7:40pm
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

Btw guys, what do you recommend for a new SSD for my OS?

I bought a bunch of OCZ Agility 3 disks back in 2010/11, none of them have failed me but I figure its time to switch them out BEFORE they die :P I've switched between them for my main os every reinstall or so to spread out the hours, this is my current:



I dont really care if its the fastest ssd, I just want quality that last for 5+ years!
I have a 500gb Samsung EVO for my games, so won't need more than 120-240gb for OS and programs etc..

I've heard people satisfied with the Samsung PRO 840 series in the past..
Any other suggestions?


WOW! If you can survive for that long with Agility 3s, you have the luck beyond belief!

Or you must be an example of the NOT an idiot factor at work, since I always wondered how many users could have problems like these drives supposedly had.

The Samsung 840 Pro is long out of production, but a used one would be great. I have two that are as good as on day one.

The 850 Pro has a 10 year warranty, but may be replaced soon. Still well worth it. I like the SanDisk Extreme Pro, another 10 year warranty model. Anything Intel is always good, if you don't mind a Sandforce controller, at least on standard 2.5" SSDs.

My best advice would be to avoid the cheap, lesser name brands, like Kingston.


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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


Tt Core X9 case. My new test bench it is. Horizontal MB and room enough for both elbows in there.

Pure win!


The thing is monster sized.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 8:31pm
I'm loving my Define S, plenty of room and not too much desk real estate Big smile

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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 10:46pm
I'll probably go with Samsung pro, either 850 or 950 m2 :)

I have always used quality psu's (corsair hx/ax up until my current CM v1000) and kept the disks under 40c, that probably has something to do with them lasting :P

I whould never EVER buy something like a Kingston or Corsair SSD LOL


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2016 at 10:59pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

[QUOTE=TAMW]and room enough for both elbows in there.


Haha, you weren't kidding! Just looked up the x9, jesus christ LOL

I was thinkin about a cube case back in the day, the Yeaon Yang yy-0420 nut never got around to buying before they were gone..


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 4:02am
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

I'll probably go with Samsung pro, either 850 or 950 m2 :)

I have always used quality psu's (corsair hx/ax up until my current CM v1000) and kept the disks under 40c, that probably has something to do with them lasting :P

I whould never EVER buy something like a Kingston or Corsair SSD LOL


Good for you! I stick with manufactures that make their own NAND chips. Which means, Intel/Crucial, Samsung, SanDisk/Toshiba.

I have a few random OCZ SSDs, but post-SandForce models. A Vertex 4 and new RD400, with Toshiba NAND.

If ANY 2.5" SATA SSD I was using hit 40C, I would freak out! Not allowed!

Yes, M.2 SSDs run warmer, no case to use as a heatsink.


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 9:07am
Went with a 256gb Samsung 850 Pro, around $140. Not the cheapest, but that 10yr warranty sold me along with their good rep.

I read SSD's may get more expensive soon as nand chips are short in stock or something, so figured I'd just buy now. The old spin disks took years to get back down in prices after that earthquake or flooding in the factory back in 2012 ish, and im guessing they're gonna be milking this "shortage" for pretty long :P


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 9:50am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Yes, M.2 SSDs run warmer, no case to use as a heatsink.


Au contraire. Coming soon to an MSI board. And now I'd imagine the remainder of Manuf's also. Soon.

http://techreport.com/news/31031/msi-seeks-to-shield-m-2-ssds-from-thermal-throttling



Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 10:06am
While my NF4-D is out and about on some 3dmark2001 adventure with his friends Opteron 175 and X1900XTX, an old (but newer) friend took over the retro rig duties for a while ;)




Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 10:08am
btw, you guys got a thread on here where you have posted your rig's (and talk some smack)? LOL


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2016 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

btw, you guys got a thread on here where you have posted your rig's (and talk some smack)? LOL


Why, where half the posts in this Topic belong TongueSmileStar

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=13&title=project-buildshare



Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 9:32pm
OOOOOOOOOHHH I'm fuCensoreding getting one!



Getting close to Zen launch now, and as far as I've seen they're gonna be awsome!
Just hope the cpu's are priced in the non insane range LOL


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 11:54pm
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242252-amd-declares-ryzen-will-four-year-architecture-details-overclocking-plans-emphasizes-hard-launch" rel="nofollow - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242252-amd-declares-ryzen-will-four-year-architecture-details-overclocking-plans-emphasizes-hard-launch

Also reassuring not to see AMD not jumping on the Intel "New Chipset/Socket a Week' bandwagon allthewhile fleecing the Intel Sheeple. I truly believe, in this economy, that people are finally beginning to step off that bandwagon, if only for a block, then, then, jump back on.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2017 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

I truly believe, in this economy, that people are finally beginning to step off that bandwagon, if only for a block, then, then, jump back on.


If not, then the reviews of Kaby Lake will convince them to.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2017 at 12:08am
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242252-amd-declares-ryzen-will-four-year-architecture-details-overclocking-plans-emphasizes-hard-launch" rel="nofollow - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242252-amd-declares-ryzen-will-four-year-architecture-details-overclocking-plans-emphasizes-hard-launch

Originally posted by In the link above was In the link above was wrote:


According to AMD, the relative handful of people who use multi-GPUs always use higher-end motherboards. Practically, this makes sense, since most people can?™t afford or don?™t want a second card, and if you do want one, you can probably afford a slightly more expensive motherboard. Given the typical price gap between AMD and Intel we don?™t see this being a major issue, either.


Nothing like $1200.00 SLI'd 1080s on a $69.99 H150 motherboard I say !


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2017 at 1:32am
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242252-amd-declares-ryzen-will-four-year-architecture-details-overclocking-plans-emphasizes-hard-launch" rel="nofollow - https://www.extremetech.com/computing/242252-amd-declares-ryzen-will-four-year-architecture-details-overclocking-plans-emphasizes-hard-launch

Also reassuring not to see AMD not jumping on the Intel "New Chipset/Socket a Week' bandwagon allthewhile fleecing the Intel Sheeple. I truly believe, in this economy, that people are finally beginning to step off that bandwagon, if only for a block, then, then, jump back on.


Neither design style is perfect, both have compromises.

I refuse to engage in name-calling, fan-boy-ism.

I'm surprised AMD is staying with the static socket design again. Ask yourself, how well did that serve them in the past? In terms of adding new features to the platform?

The Zen processor design with more of the chipset functions in the processor itself, should improve or fix that apparent limitation. AMD should have learned by now how to do that, and they have a huge potential advantage they could leverage, if they can do it.

The mother board itself is still a factor, due to the unknown nature of new interfaces like M.2 and DDR4, for example.

If AMD, for example, could add something like PCIe 4.0 to the processor, without the need to change anything in the mother board, that is the advantage I'm referring to.

For example, AMD could not add PCIe 3.0 to the FX/900 series systems. We know that was caused by the chipset being the source of the PCIe lanes to the PCIe slots. That is an example of the overall design being a limitation.

Intel updated their 100 series chipsets (most of them) to a DMI3 interface. That allowed the M.2 ports to use the chipset for their connectivity, and no longer used the processors PCIe 3.0 lanes for the M.2 ports. That required a new mother board. If AMD could do a similar thing by simply changing the chipset features within the processor, that is another example of the potential of the Zen design.

The ASRock mother board engineers are likely laughing at that statement. The realities of the hard wired connections between the resources and interfaces makes things like this extremely difficult, if not completely impossible. It also is an example of the need for a new mother board design.

My point is that every new socket, chipset, and resulting new mother board design from Intel is not simply milking consumers for no reason each time. Note that I did not say it was justified each and every time.

I hope that AMD is not designing themselves into a corner again with the unchanging platform. They should have learned from, IMO, that mistake of the past. Changing the platform with each or every other generation is easy. Evolving a platform without changing the mother board is very difficult. If AMD can do that at least to some degree, then they WILL have beaten Intel. I wish AMD luck.




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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2017 at 2:56am
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:


I refuse to engage in name-calling, fan-boy-ism.


Still hung up on this huh? That political PM must have gotten your shorts WAY up there.

I don't mean anything by it, or directed at anyone in particular.

I'll be the first to say Intel has/had a better processor and chipsets. But really, just how much of that do real world buyers use? There are a few, yet IMO iit's akin to the old retired fart buying himself a Ferrari or 'Vette.


I'm sorry you feel the need to comment when I get all up, AMD like. It's isn't directed at anyone yet I feel you take it on the chin, all personal like..


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2017 at 3:30am
Both have merits IMO, AMD just flogged a dead horse way too long with AM3/+.  AMD has always appealed to the budget user and being able to keep basically the same system and upgrade just the CPU and GPU from time to time was a great thing at the start. Unfortunately they just couldn't bring worth while upgrades to market after a point. 

Intel does some great things with their chipsets and socket iterations but they are not budget friendly and certainly could stand to maybe switch to 3 generations per socket. Given they have given up on the tick/tock mythos it would make sense to introduce one more generation per socket. At least that is my opinion. 

I have always gone for one of the 2 basic formulas

1. Bang for buck
2. Longevity

If I had the cash for a more powerful setup I would typically go with intel, much as sockets change more often I would have still been more or less set today even with an i7 2600k. If budget was limited however then AMD offered more for less, at least till intel eclipsed them completely. 


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Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2017 at 10:36am
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

Also reassuring not to see AMD not jumping on the Intel "New Chipset/Socket a Week' bandwagon


This. This is what i want. Now I do agree with parsec that it is unfortunate if they box them selves in feature wise, especially for itx users.. (tho I see no itx boards pictured yet?) Personally I dont care about having the latest gadgets onboard, I'm fine with just using expansion cards for anything I need. Cause it IS nice to be able to upgrade just the cpu down the line.

But what got me excited.. And I mean fully erect. Was they will still have the pins on the CPU, not in the fuc*ing motherboard socket. I HATE lga sockets. One bent pin that doesn't want to be fixed (likely to goof up more pins when trying to straighten one as they are "pre bent") and there goes $200.

I always get countered here with "well isn't it better to buy a new $150-200 mobo than a $350-450 cpu?" Yes, but I have never failed to straighten bent cpu pins, EVER, even pretty messed up ones.. But I have lost many a LGA board to that sh*t. Even with only one bent pin where I got it straight, then the next time I switched cpu the pin broke and board dead. I guess it got fatigued and eventually snapped as the serve as "springs" too.


Anyway it will be interesting. Are the release still later this month or are they dragging it on? I see someplaces it says "sometime in Q1"..

I wonder if the vrm coolers have the same mounting spaces as older coolers so I can find some cheap old vrm waterblocks for them :)

At least that matx board has 9 cpu phases compared to my z97m's 3... *knocking on my empty head* XD


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2017 at 8:16am
" rel="nofollow - So have any of you gotten Zen'd up yet?

Getting mine in a few weeks probably, waiting for the AB350M pro4 to get in stock.
Going with the r7 1700 :)


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2017 at 8:23am
Not yet.

Believe me you, that fact doesn't make supporting it here any easier.

We three Mods here seem to be doing ok so far though. High five Mods!


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2017 at 11:24am
Originally posted by TAMW TAMW wrote:

" rel="nofollow - So have any of you gotten Zen'd up yet?

Getting mine in a few weeks probably, waiting for the AB350M pro4 to get in stock.
Going with the r7 1700 :)


I wish I could! The demand for Ryzen mother boards has surpassed the ability to keep them in stock. I'm not willing to compromise about what I want. The few boards in stock are the cheaper models that simply do not interest me. Wrong chipset on those boards.

Plus it seems the Ryzen processor launch was premature relative to the mother boards being ready. Sure, a completely new platform, not like Intel's tweak an existing architecture a bit, throw in a new feature or two in the chipset, not a big deal.

I have the other parts for a Ryzen PC ready, now I just need two more... Pinch


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http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Mar 2017 at 8:33pm
" rel="nofollow - Oh its that bad, eh? Sure hope they can ramp up production so they dont miss out on the marketshare they really need, like the k8 era..

What motherboards/cpu's you guys getting?

As far as i've seen, the differance between the cheaper boards and the big ones aren't that great. (which is fine by me)
What are the benefits of getting a x370 vs b350?
Do they add more lanes to supplement the "only 24" problem?


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2017 at 1:27pm
" rel="nofollow - Question: Does the AB350M Pro4 support bclk overclocking?

It has come to my attention that not all boards supports this..



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