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AB350 Cool & Quiet breaks overclock

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: AMD Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock AMD motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4661
Printed Date: 18 Jun 2024 at 5:42pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: AB350 Cool & Quiet breaks overclock
Posted By: mkmcgregor
Subject: AB350 Cool & Quiet breaks overclock
Date Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 11:30pm
" rel="nofollow - When a manual overclock is set in BIOS, e.g. 3.8GHz on all cores and 1.35v, and Cool & Quiet option is disabled, the system boots and runs as expected an all utilities show 3.8GHz or just below; 3.795 or the like. Benchmarks return results as expected; CPU-Z Bench Stress multi-core runs around 19500. If the only change made is to enable Cool & Quiet, the system now boots and Ryzen Master shows 2.7GHz in the speed "dial". Windows Task Manager on the Performance tab shows Max CPU speed 3.8GHz, and when under stress Actual Speed just under 2.7; again around 2.695. CPU-Z Bench Stress shows just over 14000 which implies that the numbers are not being reported wrong and the CPU is actually running slower; a lot slower. AIDA64, when stressing, shows 100% utilization, yet task manager shows all CPU threads running only exactly at 80%. This is just bizarre. I would prefer if when idle the CPU would clock down to save CPU life, power, and heat. The same testing with C & Q enabled works fine when core clock is set to auto; 3.0 and 3.2 on all cores max. Everything shows and works normally then; other than running a little slower. It seems to be the combination of C & Q and manual overclock; same 2.7GHz when I tried 3.5 GHz manual overclock.

Anyone else seen this? Is this common behavior of C & Q when manually overclocked? Is it assumed that if you push the CPU you never want it to down clock when idle? My I5-6600K speed steps down find from 4.5GHz OC and appears to go much lower in clock down than Ryzen will; lowest I saw was around 2.3Ghz when I used the successful Auto core clock with C & Q option. 

Any info would be appreciated!



Replies:
Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 12:45am
AMD highly suggests that the Windows Power Plan you are running be set in Performance mode.

Check what yours is and post back please.


Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 12:58am
Yes. It is set to the High Power mode. That is the only change of the various web setting modifications made; did NOT change the high speed interrupt setting nor the SMT to 0.


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 1:50am

I have the same issue ..  
ASRock  Fatal1ty Gaming K4  AB350 

When I use stock nothing problem but  -> when I  OC  to 3.7 Ghz +1.25v ( I have updated bios 1.43) after when I run  Cinebench it shows me 3.7Ghz  but meanwhile CPU-Z showing me 2694 Mhz +0.51v  ( OCCT same )





Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 1:58am
Thanks for the confirmation and sorry that you have the same problem. The only work around is to shut off Cool & Quiet OR leave Auto for core clocking and loose a little less performance; i.e. it will clock at 3.0 with 3.2 boost under "auto". Depends on you need until this is resolved. When running at 3.7 or 3.8 all the time, my air cooled CPU appears to be just under 40C. That's hardly a problem for 24/7. I just prefer that it clock to the lowest setting when nothing needs to run and also prefer to not have options that are obviously broken :)
 
Also, check Task Manager and the Performance tab. You'll see Maximum Clock on right and Actual Clock on left. The graphs of the thread % also paints and odd 80% picture.


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 2:11am
" rel="nofollow -
Because BIOS is a bit lack of options I will try  Ryzen Master UI  for  OC within Windows .

I will let you know how I go..


Btw. do you know what`s this option ?   "common Zen options"


Posted By: Nocturnal
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 2:56am
Originally posted by mkmcgregor mkmcgregor wrote:

Depends on you need until this is resolved.

Do you think it will be resolved? Now I'm only choosing motherboard, so looking for the most non problemSmile mobo


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 7:05am
Update  :  I tested the AMD RYZEN MASTER  software and that software OC-ed my cpu properly without much issue ( few restarts ) .

So must be problem that BIOS version not fully ready yet .

I recommend this read was useful as well   http://www.pcworld.com/article/3176907/components-processors/ryzen-cpus-explained-everything-you-need-to-know-about-amds-disruptive-multicore-chips.html%3Fpage=2" rel="nofollow - http://www.pcworld.com/article/3176907/components-processors/ryzen-cpus-explained-everything-you-need-to-know-about-amds-disruptive-multicore-chips.html%3Fpage=2


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 7:15am
I pushed up with Ryzen Masters software with no isse to 3.9Ghz + 1.375v    ->  4Ghz on 1.425v  was crashing a bit but If we can adjust later voltages It will work easly .

Depends on your money ..  If you buy x370 just because of SLI ans some power phases more ( don`t even need because looks like B350 enough for OC)

The only real worth advantage can be the "little bit more advanced" BIOS   UEFI  . x370 boards has more advanced options .. ( im not sure its worth it )


I read Newegg reviews about particular Motherboards and I find ASRock Support answers to which was like this :
"The OC Tweaker option is related to hardware specification.
If hardware is available, we could add the option inside.
So the high-end model will have more setting in OC Tweaker.
We will do the check for it and make sure which else option(like CPU voltage,?? we could add into the BIOS.  "  -> So this means they want you to buy the more expensive boards :)  but I think B350 good enough .  There is 100$ difference between AB350 and x370 Killer  so you can spend that difference on something else on your pc .

I hope it helped Wink

I recommend for you to check newegg reviews  Manufacturers replying there many times so handy infos hidden there


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 9:43am
A Ryzen 1800X review I read that used a Gigabyte Aorus mother board said the Ryzen Master software worked better for over clocking than that board's UEFI/BIOS, and recommended the software for over clocking.

I've had a similar experience with Intel XTU program, but of course it it dismissed by most over clockers.

Intel non-HEDT processors will SpeedStep down to 800MHz. Any OC is not affected by SpeedStep. Intel C State power saving options are known to cause some instability in over clocks, more so on the earlier systems.

Are all the programs like CPU-Z, etc, supposed to be Ryzen compatible at this time? I recall it took CPU-Z a while to get the reporting of Haswell processors right, for example.

Ryzen is the first truly new PC platform that we've seen in quite a while. Intel's processor updates are nothing compared to this. I can't find the Ryzen Turbo bins for multiple cores for the various models, is it really just on one core?

Welcome to truly early adopter land! Pinch


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Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 21 Mar 2017 at 10:16am
I agree with everything you said. I never said it should be perfect, but rather am listing some of the current short comings for awareness and looking for answers from the community that already exist.
There are a lot of people who are treating this as just an alternative to current Intel. It is certainly, but as you mention there are and will be growing pains.
As far as HEDT, don't know if 6600K is considered part of the HEDT since it is unlocked, but my 6600K running a 4.5 uses SpeedStep without issue currently. It's true that Ryzen is very new, but that will only hold for so long. One of the first things, since overclocking was mentioned for every Ryzen, would be tools to not just set an overclock but monitor said overclock. Yes it sees temps, hopefully correctly, but not current voltage or voltage changes that I've found in the tool. Also, setting via Ryzen Master may or may not be better, but I don't plan to activate a profile every boot; even in the short term. I did not like doing that for GPUs, and I doubt I'll start with CPUs ... IMO :) Fortunately, current BIOS settings on AB350 Pro4 works fine; other than AMD Cool 'n' Quiet. I can live without that feature. I'll keep the 3.8Ghz @1.325V with idle temps staying in the low 30s on a "free" 95TDP air cooler; water pending.
 
 


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 2:36pm
After I turned off the cool n quiet . I  could OC without issues .

Im running at 4Ghz  + 1.432v   60-65C  under full load


Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 9:28am
" rel="nofollow - 1.44 BIOS version just released today corrects Cool 'n' Quiet clock down when manually clocking. I don't think that they fixed it meaning that it won't down clock CPU, voltage does drop, but it no longer prevents a max of 2.7GHz regardless of the manual overclock when the voltage was set over 1.3v. 

Also corrected is the voltage reading in CPU-Z. Unclear if it's correct but it's closer than previous numbers. Setting 1.325 in the BIOS shows 1.275 under full load at 3.79GHz. That is probably the correct value, but only future testing will prove that. HWInfo now shows double that value  which I think that I remember was also true for the some ASUS boards. Odd, but consistent.

Grats on the 4Ghz+. I can't get stable beyond 3.8. Please Run AIDA64 stress, first three options checked, for at least 20 minutes. Are you running water, you have to be, and which AIO water cooler are you using? And on what motherboard? 


Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 9:39am
F.Y.I. - Once 1.44 is installed, do not use the Internet Flash option in BIOS. It will state, download, and install a 1.50 version which does work and states 1.50 is installed after the restart; however, that version breaks everything that 1.44 fixed that is listed above. Not sure if it provides anything new or useful. I think that it's just an older beta prior to 1.44 despite stating 1.50.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 11:58am
" rel="nofollow - Guys and Gals(PC: Gals and Guys), is it OK, now with L1.44 out, that I can mark this [SOLVED] so that later comers here can see it instead of creating a new thread of their own?


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 5:39am
The 4Ghz was not stable under stress test even with 1.45v and Im not gonna try higher .

So now 3.9Ghz on 1.375v  

Aida64 stress test done .

Im using Noctua NH-D15  SE-AM4   ( max temp 63C )

On 4Ghz max temp was 68 C


Sadly looks like 4Ghz you need like 1.45++ volts .

Even 1.455 v is not enough


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 7:07pm
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by potyec potyec wrote:

Sadly looks like 4Ghz you need like 1.45++ volts .

Even 1.455 v is not enough


With CnQ Enabled on AMD processors CnQ will slightly stymie an OC.

Are you able to match your OC a few posts up while disabling CnQ?


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 7:14pm
And to those here .......

Keep in mind, when you have all  the power saving features enabled _and_ run an OC that the boards VRM section takes a sever azz whooping in constantly flipping high and flipping low. That's just the nature of electronics and no getting around it.


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 2:41am

4Ghz was not stable on AIDA64 stress test .

I did disabled  CnQ + C6

I did set the fans on Custom speed ( high) .
I did changed the power usage in Windows for High Performance-to.


Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 1:57am
4.0+ will depend on the silicon lottery. Even if your running an 1800X, they don't guarantee 4.0 on all cores. 4.0 is turbo only on one core with XFR up to 4.1. So 4.0GHz on all cores is still up to silicon quality and alignment of the quark gnomes.


Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 2:01am
While I'm in here, the latest 2.20 BIOS beta breaks Cool 'n' Quiet ... again. And yes wardog, I read your post about the azz whooping of the VRM. My VRM needs a good azz whooping. And as before, disabling C 'n' Q in BIOS allows normal overclocking. Looks like I won't bother turning that back on.  


Posted By: potyec
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 3:32pm

I did not updated for for the new beta 2.22 version but my OC working with 2.20


Posted By: mkmcgregor
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 9:57pm
I stated 2.20, but I meant 2.22 beta is broken. You can overclock with either, but in 2.22 beta with Cool 'n' Quiet enabled, booting into windows will lock your clock to 1200MHz or around there regardless of the BIOS setting; actually as before task manager shows maximum CPU clock as what is set in BIOS, e.g. 3.8GHz, but actual running clock shown in the same panel maxes out in the lower 1100-1200MHz.


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 12 Apr 2017 at 11:40pm
Originally posted by mkmcgregor mkmcgregor wrote:

I stated 2.20, but I meant 2.22 beta is broken. You can overclock with either, but in 2.22 beta with Cool 'n' Quiet enabled, booting into windows will lock your clock to 1200MHz or around there regardless of the BIOS setting; actually as before task manager shows maximum CPU clock as what is set in BIOS, e.g. 3.8GHz, but actual running clock shown in the same panel maxes out in the lower 1100-1200MHz.


There might be a UEFI issue with that version, I don't have that board so I can't verify that either way.

What is your VCore mode set to, Auto? I have mine set to Offset, with the Offset value left on Auto. I have C n Q enabled, and C6 enabled. All cores at 38.25 to compensate for the BCLK droop. Using the AMD Ryzen Power Plan. The result:



Processor speed of 3.8GHz, which stays there due to the Ryzen Power Plan disabling core parking. If you check the VCore in the lower right side, you can see it ranges from 1.360V to 0.384V, so C n Q is active. We can also see the Core powers are varying quite a bit. Differences in CPU temperature also indicate it is working.







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