OC Mode while maintaining power saving?
Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: AMD Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock AMD motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5851
Printed Date: 25 Dec 2024 at 12:20am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: OC Mode while maintaining power saving?
Posted By: nky
Subject: OC Mode while maintaining power saving?
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 10:41am
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" rel="nofollow - Using X370 Gaming X + R7 1700, are there any method? I did read AMD OC userguide and try some method below: 1. By simply changing the multiplier & voltage in OC tweaker. Works fine but the frequency always stay at full speed. Although power saving seems to works since the parameter showing normal readings (temps, vcore, utilization, etc). 2. Using Ryzen Master software. Works fine too with power saving feature working. This seems to be the best method but you have to initialize Ryzen Master every time you start windows. If you cancel or close it by accident, the settings will be revert to default value. 3. Custom P-State. Somehow doesn't really work for me, I did set p0, p1, and p2 but the frequency will stuck at p1 state. It says in bios "applicable only if PcdOcDisable=FALSE" but cant seem find that option anywhere in bios. Currently using the 1st method, for normal day to day use I just use default settings, but when doing CPU intensive work/gaming i set it to OC mode, and vice versa. |
Replies:
Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 11:45am
Just FYI, I don't use Ryzen Master with any of the following. I have the ASRock X370 Killer SLI/ac board with a 1700X. Description first, I use OC Tweaker but also PStates. PState0 is set to Custom, which is active, in use, and matches my OC in OC Tweaker. Whatever I set in OC Tweaker for the multiplier and VCore is mirrored in PState0. My OC is 3925MHz, VCore 1.350V, Offset mode, Offset voltage of 0.0625V. PState1 is set to Auto, which is ignored, skipped, not used. Try not using it. PState2 is set to Custom, and I change nothing in it. Its speed is 2200MHz. Nothing in OC Tweaker is related to it that I am aware of, except possibly... I have CnQ and C6 enabled. Main question: What Power Plan are you using? The Ryzen (so called) Balanced power plan sets the Minimum processor state to 90%. With that setting, I never see the core speeds drop to 2200MHz. But if I set Minimum processor state to 5%, I immediately see some of the cores drop to 2200MHz, and all will shortly afterwards. Yes the cores will go back to 3925MHz under load. I also see the VCore, core power usage, and Tdie temperature (HWiNFO64) change with the core speeds and core loads. I believe PcdOCDisable is either an internal (not shown) UEFI/BIOS setting, or buried deep in the Ryzen settings. I think it must be set to False. Try changing Minimum processor state to a low value, at least 10%. Or simply select the Windows Balanced plan. With the latest Windows 10 updates, I see a nice distribution of core usage. If you don't see the cores go to 2200MHz, enable the power saving features I listed. PS: Thanks for the clear, coherent post, with sufficient detail.  ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow"> 
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nky wrote:Posted By: nky
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 12:59pm
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Wow thanks for fast reply, I am using Ryzen Balance one. > The things is if i customize pstate (p0, p1, p2, p3), the "minimum & maximum processor state" setting is gone. pstate 0 = 3800 (all settings left default) pstate 1 = 2700 (all settings left default) pstate 2 = 1500 (all settings left default) pstate 3 = 400 (all settings left default) the rest is auto or disabled > But like you said, if pstate 0 set to custom and set the rest to auto, the option is there and i can set the minimum, thus resulting only 2 state which is min/idle@1500 and max/load@3800. > My question is, is it possible to use pstate custom setting above working (400, 1500, 2700, 3800)? instead only have 2 state (1500, 3800)? Extra : Coming from Z87 Extreme 4 + i5 4690k@4.5, it does have several frequency even in OC mode (800, 1600, 2400, 3600, 4500). Cheers
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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 10:59pm
I have not yet been able to get more than two of the PStates working. In my experience, I must set a PState to Custom before it is used. Do you see the same behavior of the Minimum processor state setting with the Windows power plans, meaning others than the Ryzen plan? AMD released new chipset drivers that include the Ryzen Balanced power plan, but I'm not sure if the power plan behavior is any different, or if the only purpose is to support Threadripper (sorry but the forum link tool fails if the URL contains a '?', so text only): http://support.amd.com/en-us/download/chipset?os=Windows+10+-+64 Intel's processor power saving option SpeedStep works by simply enabling it, and has worked that way over many of their processor generations, and still does with their latest CPUs. The multiple core speeds we get with it is just how it works on its own. Previous generation AMD processors have a similar feature, Cool n Quiet. Ryzen has CnQ too, but it does not seem to work at all as it has in the past. That seems to be an odd step backwards, and if we need to enable specific PStates manually to get it working, that is also strange. OTOH, if the point is to give us control over the "under clocking" core speeds, and the number of them, that is a good thing. But how that is meant to work is not clear to me, and ignored in Ryzen Master. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 15 Aug 2017 at 11:47pm
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Hi, On my build (Fatality K4 UEFI v3.0, R7 1700) I only set psate0 to my desired overclock frequency and leave all otrher pstates on Auto setting. On OC Tweaker page, I set the desired offset voltage for CPU Core. I didn't touch frequency or voltage on this tab. On Windows, set Ryzen balanced power plan, 10 or 20% as minimun frequency on that plan, and I get core frequencies changes from 1500 to my max pstate0 OC, with intermediate values. Don't remember now and not on my home PC right now, but I saw freq changes from 1500, 1700, 2400 and my Max OC value of 3900 currently, dependent on CPU and Core load. On pstate0 settings, only change FID and leave the rest as came as default.
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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2017 at 11:03pm
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I agree about setting the Minimum processor state in the Ryzen Balanced power plan, to allow the core frequencies to change to lower values. While monitoring the core frequencies, reducing the Minimum processor state and applying it immediately causes the core frequencies to reduce, as you described. The frequencies we will get may be related to what our PState configuration is, since with my PState configuration, I don't get core frequencies below 2000MHz. Why AMD sets the Minimum processor state in the Ryzen Balanced plan so high (90%), is my question. The original intent of the Ryzen Balanced plan, IIRC, was for better use of all the cores and threads Ryzen provides, by preventing Windows core parking. I don't see that behavior (core parking) with the Minimum processor state set to a low value. Do you think you are getting cores that become unused or rarely used with your Minimum processor state setting? ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 16 Aug 2017 at 11:22pm
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Hi @parsec, On my testings I didn't see evidence of core parking, or unused cores. I think the AMD power plan prevents core parking, and Windows scheduler distributes load across all cores. IMO, Ryzen balanced power plan is the standard High Performance Plan, which also prevents core parking as I understand it, and set the 90% minimun processor frequency to allow the CPU to utilize its internal power savings by downvolting and internally reduce frequencies, which you can't see on monitoring programs on Windows. With the settings I described on the above post, I can see frequency change in steps on HWInfo64. I get 1500, 1700, 2700 and 3900 depending on usage, in different cores, not all cores at the same time. I see downvolting too on Vcore. But, if you run a prime95 test for example, on only one core, all cores go to the max frequency, not only the full loaded one. Cheers.
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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 12:11pm
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I understand the core frequencies you get using PStates. My question to you is, do you have Cool N Quiet and C6 C State enabled? If they are not set to Disabled, Auto can be enabled. I have a problem with not being able to see the core frequencies reduced with Minimum processor state set to 90%, and that it somehow happen internally. I use HWiNFO64, and I assume you mean programs like that, not Windows Resource Monitor, for example can't show that. Does your HWiNFO display show the individual core power usage readings? Mine does, and IMO if the core frequencies were internally down clocking, that would be reflected in the core power usage readings. I'm not on my Ryzen PC now, but as I recall the core power readings are not the same with Processor Minimum state at 90%. I'll need to check that to be certain. Consider, if the High Performance power plan is actually behind the scenes doing the same thing as the Balanced plan regarding the core speeds and power usage of the CPU, then what is the point of the Minimum processor setting in High Performance? A lie to the user so they think it is different? Hmm, so even with Minimum Processor state at 90%, you see the reduction in core speeds? That is not what I get. I need to review your configuration again. For current Intel boards, HWiNFO displays the percentage of time the processor is in the various power states, C0 through C7. That is not the case for Ryzen boards, I wish they did. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2017 at 11:48pm
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Hi, bold quotes answered below: Yes, I have Cool&Quiet and C6 states enabled in UEFI. Yes, I use HWinfo64, not Windows. I'm not at my PC now, I'll check at night when at home and give you my findings. I remember I read somewhere Ryzen has advanced power savings and clock gates which work internally without exposing changes to monitoring programs due to the speed those power changes happens, but take it with a grain of salt because it's not official words. I think this plan disables the lower power states and core parking, hence the name, but not sure if it changes frequencies by altering the minimum. I'll check it at night. Cheers.
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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2017 at 12:09pm
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I want to say first that my goal is NOT to prove something is true or false, but simply to learn how PStates work and how they are related to the Windows Power Plan, and other things like the Ryzen CPU power saving options Cool n Quiet and C6 C State. I set the OC Tweaker OC Mode to Auto, and only had the PState0 configured with my OC of 3925MHz. PState0 is set to Custom, all others on Auto. I set the VCore in OC Tweaker to Offset mode, 1.35V, with an offset voltage of 0.00625V. That is close if not exactly how your PState0 is configured, and I'm not sure what you have configured for VCore in the OC Tweaker screen. You seem to have done that via the FID. With Minimum Processor state set to 10% with the configuration above, I only get three core speeds, or core multiplier values, as shown in HWiNFO. The multipliers are 39.25, 22, and 19.625. I have screenshots of HWiNFO showing the multipliers and core power usage, but the image hosting site I use is not working  so I'll post those soon. With Minimum Processor state set to 90% with the configuration above, I only get one core speed and core multiplier value, the 39.25 multiplier. I did a further test, setting several PStates to Custom, up to the 800MHz speed PState. The result at 10% and 90% Processor State were the same as only using PState0 set to Custom. So, interesting that I only get three core speeds so far, the lowest being 1962.5MHz. I have some information from the HWiNFO sensor display that seems to show lower core power usage at the lower Minimum Processor state value than at the higher value. That may simply be due to less (unseen) core throttling at the higher Minimum Processor state, but we need to look at the data first before making any decisions. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: theDUD3
Date Posted: 21 Aug 2017 at 9:51pm
Here's my OC results using PState (no crashes, freezes in 3 weeks) OC = 3.7Ghz (cores go beyond that, turbo may still be kicking in) Cool and Quiet = Enable CState = Auto or Enable (if set to Disable downclocks don't go down that much) PState0 = custom all the rest set to Auto Minimum Power State = 40% (5% to 41% same downclocks, 42% to 70% = 2460Mhz, 71% to 90 = no downclocks) |
Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 9:20am
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" rel="nofollow - Did you configure anything in PState0, besides setting it to Custom? Did you configure anything for the processor (speed, VCore) in the OC Tweaker screen? If not, the core speed in PState0 was set to 3700MHz by default? Interesting you get the down clocks you do with Cool n Quiet disabled. Any idea what the crazy low Minimum core clock speeds in HWMonitor are about? We can't see what the BCLK readings are in the HWMonitor information, which tends to wander a bit on ASRock Ryzen boards that don't have a BCLK setting. Your max core speed is over 3800MHz, which could be due to a slightly higher BCLK. We can see the affect of a lower BCLK in the CPU-Z information. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: theDUD3
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 10:23am
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Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 11:13am
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Ok, great, thanks! I do have one more question. VCore mode of Offset is not a default as I recall, but that doesn't matter. Is the Offset voltage set to Auto? I'm just trying to see if the default PState0 VID for a 1700 is 3a (1.1875V), which is quite different than my 1700X whose PState0 VID is 20 (1.35V). I've changed settings in OC Tweaker, that can affect PState0, so I need to clear the UEFI and start over. Forgot to say earlier, Turbo must be enabled by default, there is no option to disable/enable it. Intel over clocking boards normally have that option. Your VCore seems to be above the PState VID value, unless both HWMonitor and CPU-Z are reading the processor VID. I was going to say 3700MHz below a VCore of 1.2V is great, but ~1.3V is not bad at all. You are demonstrating how simple it is to OC Ryzen. Just set PState0 to Custom, enabling it. Very little set in OC Tweaker for the OC, just VCore mode to Offset. If you set CPU Frequency and Voltage Change to Manual, and set the CPU Frequency above the normal Turbo speed, that will also change the Frequency in PState0. So an easy way to change the frequency, without changing the FID and DID. If the VID is then not enough, just select an Offset Voltage on OC Tweaker, with the + key. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: theDUD3
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2017 at 12:37pm
In my case: (PState0 1187500 ) + (VCore Offset 0.11250) = 1.3 VCore I know could go lower but I was too lazy to test lower offset values. lol.
Hope this helps. :) |
Posted By: theDUD3
Date Posted: 23 Aug 2017 at 12:17am
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Ok so I had about an hour of idle time so I decided to try and lower my VCore a bit so here are the results, PState0 voltage @ 1187500. 1. Offset 0.062500 = 1.2500 stable 2. Offset 0.037500 = 1.2250 stable 3. Offset 0.012500 = 1.2000 unstable  |
Posted By: mieramen
Date Posted: 24 Aug 2017 at 11:22pm
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@theDUD3 .. Thx A Lot.. ITS WORK ^^ here my last addition.. https://postimages.org/" rel="nofollow">  https://postimages.org/" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: theDUD3
Date Posted: 25 Aug 2017 at 8:58am
^ Nice!  |