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X370 Taichi VCore nasty spikes

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: AMD Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock AMD motherboards
URL: http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=5973
Printed Date: 02 Mar 2024 at 5:34am
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Topic: X370 Taichi VCore nasty spikes
Posted By: zlobster
Subject: X370 Taichi VCore nasty spikes
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 9:17pm
Hey there, fellas!

I'm also a long-time PC enthusiast, and I have built and tweaked many PCs during the years. I'm a happy owner of a X370 Taichi for some time now. That's where the bad part starts. Read below.

I bought a brand new X370 Taichi from a renowned German web shop 2 months ago. It came with BIOS version 2.40 pre-installed. Immediately I plopped a brand new 1700X in it, booted and changed the BIOS version to 3.0, which was the latest at that time.

With everything left at auto, I installed Win 10 Pro on a 960 EVO. After running Ryzen Master and HWiNFO64 I noticed some odd CPU VCore behavior. When CPU was under light or no load I could see some nasty voltage spikes, even though no OC was in place and all was left on auto. When CPU is under heavy load, VCore settles between a good 1.20V and 1.25V with NO voltage spikes.

Check it all on the screenshots below.

System overview:


HWiNFO64 readings from MULTIPLE sensors:


Idle mode behavior. Note the bad spikes:


CPU is loaded here. Note how spikes disappear when the load kicks in:



All this is still present no matter which LLC option I choose, no matter XMP or mem defaults. This is even present with the latest BIOS version 3.10! Bear in mind that I have done many CMOS resets, incl. every time I was updating the BIOS. I HIGHLY doubt these are just bad readings.

I also have no issues with thermals or performance; I just think these spikes are a killer in the long run.

ASRock staff, forum fellas, help!




Replies:
Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 11:09pm
" rel="nofollow - HWiNFO shows a running time of 1min 12sec. Is that from 1m12s immediately after booting into the OS, or just a randon 1m12s of.... whenever?


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 11:21pm
Do NOT use Auto VCore voltage! You are lucky you only get spikes to ~1.48V. If you check the VIDs in HWiNFO at the top of the sensor display, if your board is like mine (X370 Killer SLI/ac), they are over 1.5V. If you over clocked your CPU with Auto VCore, it would be even higher.

In the OC Tweaker screen, set CPU Frequency and Voltage Change to Manual.

You can leave the CPU Frequency on the value shown, which should be the stock base clock speed, 3400.

The CPU Voltage shown should be 1.35V, or you can change it to 1.35V or whatever you like.

Next, scroll down to the Voltage Configuration area, and set CPU Vcore Voltage to Offset Mode. That's what I use, if you want to use Fixed, that's your choice. I use Offset Mode, with the Offset Voltage set by pressing the '+' key once, to change it from Auto to 0.00625V.

Your board's UEFI may be a bit different than mine, but those are the main things to do. I set CPU LLC to Level 2.

You can experiment with various VCore voltages using Offset or Fixed, but you really must set CPU Frequency and Voltage Change to Manual, or you'll get the usual high Auto VCore voltages that are programmed into the UEFI/BIOS. That is done to insure all processors will work for users that don't do anything in the UEFI/BIOS. I'm surprised you've never seen the Auto VCore setting on other boards give very high VCore voltages, I've never had a board that didn't do that.

The spikes you see are just higher CPU load situations, with the cores at Turbo speed. I just read about a new Gigabyte UEFI/BIOS release for their Ryzen boards that has the VCore up to 1.7V!



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http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 11:33pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

" rel="nofollow - HWiNFO shows a running time of 1min 12sec. Is that from 1m12s immediately after booting into the OS, or just a randon 1m12s of.... whenever?


Let me assure you, this is just one snap of the phenomenon. That bug is always present, being it in a freshly booted system, or one that ran for 48 hours.


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 11:39pm
Thanks, parsec!

Quite useful info, indeed. I have to admit same thing has crossed my mind on many occasions. Due to my mediocre experience with Ryzen platform I'm not sure how a fixed voltage would affect the system.

On my previous AMD builds I always ended up with a fixed multiplier, manual voltages and CPB disabled. As I mentioned, I'm not yet experienced with Ryzen, so I decided I'll give it a try on auto. Boy, was I wrong! Big smile

So, I want to keep CPB/XFR on, and I want to use Qool'n'Cuiet (R) (TM). Can I just put some sane offset voltage and call it a day?


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2017 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:


 I'm surprised you've never seen the Auto VCore setting on other boards give very high VCore voltages, I've never had a board that didn't do that.

The spikes you see are just higher CPU load situations, with the cores at Turbo speed. I just read about a new Gigabyte UEFI/BIOS release for their Ryzen boards that has the VCore up to 1.7V!



I've been using only ASUS until now. I haven't used an ASRock since many moons. ASUSes always gave me very little to no spikes at all when running auto.

I also read about some fried Ryzens with latest Gigabyte blobware. Multi billion companies can't even properly test a build. Clap

Offtopic - if these auto voltage values were put there deliberately, then what is the life expectancy of the CPU in the board? Is this a way to enforce the planned obsolesce?


Posted By: datonyb
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 4:03am
" rel="nofollow - ive had set 3.9 ghz and 1.3 volts fixed voltage and llc 2

heres the taichi guide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Tw-wcT7o4

my p states settings are

9c
8
27

that will make sense when you watch the video


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[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

3800X, powercolor reddevil vega64, gskill tridentz3866, taichix370, evga750watt gold


Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 5:13am
On my X370 K4 auto voltages spikes go up to 1.55v. Insane!!

I saw this behaviour only on this Asrock board. On my previous AMD builds I used Gigabyte and Asus, but may be this is a general Ryzen thing so may be all boards for this generation AMD cpus suffer from the same.

Another weird thing I can see on these Ryzens are temp spikes under load. You run, in example, the AIDA64 stress test, and after a while the cpu temp settles at 57°, and from time to time HWINFO64 registers temp spikes up to 65° in a very short timeframe. 

If you want to set manual voltages and also get the power savings, use the pstate overclock method with offset voltages, adjust LLC (I suggest LLC 3 as max. If you need more LLC it's because you set a weak vcore from the start) and the Ryzen balanced power plan on Windows.

Cheers. 



Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 5:43am
" rel="nofollow - I was just researching what datonyb said. These custom P-states are very powerful thing! It's as close to metal as you can get. With these you can program the CPU on a low HW level, pretty much as you wish. 2000MHz for idle? You gots it! 4000MHz for the lulz? You gots it! Thanks, AMD.

I don't think I've noticed the temp spikes you're mentioning. Then again, I don't use AIDA64 for reading or stress-tesitng. HWiNFO64 reports good and stable temps for me. My advice to you is to check if your CPU cooler is seated properly and the TIM is spread well. Improper cooler contact with the CPU IHS is a frequent reason for the thing you're mentioning.

I will definitely try tweaking the UEFI these days and I'll report back the results.

On a side note, I'd really like to hear ASRock's engineering justification behind these crazy auto VCore voltages, and see a fix in the future.


Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 5:59am
Thanks for the suggestion, I had these spikes with the 1700 stock cooler, and now with my new CLC. Temps are very good across the board, but I suspect these very very short timed spikes are related to voltage spikes which monitoring software can't register due the speed at these voltage changes occur, and may be are LLC related when full load decrease a bit.

Anyway, it's not related to your question so I'm sorry to hijack your post.

Cheers.


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2017 at 7:32pm
Thanks everyone for the help!

When I set the VCore manually I got rid of the spikes, PC now runs cooler and is again stable as rock. \m/ Do you see what I did there? Big smile

With manual voltage I see CPB & XFR are still kicking in, which I think it's strange because I've set VCore to 1.22V. Under heavy load it droops to 1.19V. Funny thing is PC runs well even with 1.19V VCore; under load it just droops even lower. Odd, no?

Custom P-states also work well. I'll tune them better after I find my 1700X limit.

Finally, I can't say the problem is gone. For now I've just worked it around with your help. @Moderators - you can close the thread if you wish, but please forward this to ASRock engineering teams. To me it's still a problem. When one buys a car, one doesn't tune the gas pedal manually, just because it gives too much fuel. That's factory's job!


Posted By: Onox
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by zlobster zlobster wrote:

Thanks everyone for the help!

When I set the VCore manually I got rid of the spikes, PC now runs cooler and is again stable as rock. \m/ Do you see what I did there? Big smile

With manual voltage I see CPB & XFR are still kicking in, which I think it's strange because I've set VCore to 1.22V. Under heavy load it droops to 1.19V. Funny thing is PC runs well even with 1.19V VCore; under load it just droops even lower. Odd, no?

Custom P-states also work well. I'll tune them better after I find my 1700X limit.

Finally, I can't say the problem is gone. For now I've just worked it around with your help. @Moderators - you can close the thread if you wish, but please forward this to ASRock engineering teams. To me it's still a problem. When one buys a car, one doesn't tune the gas pedal manually, just because it gives too much fuel. That's factory's job!


Hi zlobster Smile Would it be possible for you to tell me exactly which settings you are using? I found this topic even before I built my PC very recently, and I'm worried about it. I have the X370 Taichi and a Ryzen 1700X just like you.

I have tried to set the VCore manually with what parsec recommended on the previous page, and to start, I set VCore to 1.30 V, stock frequency (I don't intend to overclock the CPU), and "Offset Mode" for the CPU VCore with a value of [-0.00625]. Everything else on Auto (I noticed that CPU LLC is Level 3 instead of 5 when left on Auto if "Offset Mode" is in use). But I'm still seeing the spikes you mentioned!

With everything on auto/default settings, from what I see in HWiNFO, mine go up to 1.519, more rarely 1.525 at low loads. With the changes to 1.30, I have seen up to 1.531 though! I don't know much about overclocking and I'm afraid of breaking something, so I reverted to all auto/default settings.

I upgraded to BIOS 3.20. When I bought the board, it had an old version, 2.20 if I recall correctly.

However, according to https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6dawyw/overclock_ryzen_1800x_vs_relying_on_turbo/di1h591/" rel="nofollow - this thread on reddit , those spikes into 1.4-1.5 are a normal thing and are not dangerous : "Temporary blips into the range of 1.4V and 1.5V are completely normal, part of the design, and totally harmless. [...] Your mileage may vary, but all day at 1.35V is not safer than transient bursts up to 1.4 or 1.5V.". Also, further down, someone explains that what the monitoring tools show isn't equal to the "internal" voltage.

So, were/are we worried for nothing? Unless the X370 Taichi has a bug, of course. By the way, I think I've found a probable bug at least in BIOS 3.20: I read that for 1700X's and 1800x's, there is a 20-degree offset on the tCTL temperature [ https://community.amd.com/thread/213223#jive-43004619993568029476142" rel="nofollow - link , scroll down until you find a post by savagebeastzero]. When I was on BIOS 2.20, the temperature as reported by the BIOS didn't apply this offset and seemed normal, but BIOS 3.20 does have this offset, and hence, the idle CPU temp in the BIOS is very high, something like 46-52 for me, but when on Windows, HWMonitor apparently reports the true temperature, 20 degrees lower. My cooler (Noctua NH-U12S) seems to be correctly installed, and when I tested with OCCT and in games, the cooler doesn't become very hot to the touch and I didn't see temps higher than 55°C in HWMonitor (and 75°C in HWiNFO, which doesn't seem to take the offset into account). Have you noticed this too?

Honestly, I don't think that this offset is a good idea at all, because if had seen the high temperature on the newer BIOS on my very first boot, I would have been scared and thought my cooler was badly installed :/ It's the first time I built a PC, and I don't think I will do it again given how time-consuming and stressful it was. I also have a disability which makes it difficult for me to build a PC, but fortunately I got help.


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 2:09am
Hey to you too, Onox! Beer

First things first. Please do NOT give up on custom PC building! One hiccup doesn't necessary mean a catastrophic failure. Well, sometimes it does, but that's life. Assembling PCs yourself is a rewarding and fun thing to do; do NOT stress about it.

I've been assembling PCs way before I could earn my own money, and sometimes it wasn't as smooth as I wanted it to be.

The fact that you've successfully assembled your first very own PC and it boots mean you've done NOTHING wrong with it! If your temps are as they should and PC works, then whatever the fault is, it's not with you.

As it turns out, the fault appears to be with ASRock in this case. I didn't even receive some sort of reply from these guys. Guess they care till you give them your hard earned cash, no longer than that. TBH, that's my first ASRock build since they splintered off from ASUS. I'm also planning to be my last. I just jumped wagons for the lulz but got more issues than I anticipated.

The X370 Taichi seems very well engineered but the state of their software/firmware is abysmal. I've seen better work from trainees in some IT companies. Sorry, but I have.

Now, on the case - my issues somewhat differ from yours, although we share the same skepticism and worries.

As you see, I'm still on P3.10, so is another user, datonyb (who seems to be perfectly happy with his board, though). My issues are: I get bad voltage spikes on auto settings; I get high temps on idle with auto settings(!); my Sapphire Boost is not working. Well, these are the ones that bug me the most but the list is nowhere near short.

None of the offset or manual settings produced desirable results. So did the LLC settings. On all auto I had spikes around 1.58, 1.59V!!! The hell these are normal! Only thing that put the voltage where I set it was the P-states. They were fixing the voltage exactly where I wanted it to.

Problem with P-states is that they still produce sub-optimal voltages. And this bugs me beyond words.

Now I've settled for my broken Sapphire Boost. CPU caps at 3400MHz but at least I never get above 1.212V. Vcore also drops to 0.8V when idling. This is far from the XFR but at least it behaves like a normal PC, albeit slower. In this Ryzen build of mine stability is more important than sheer speed.

Oddly enough I haven't seen such issues with ASUS or MSI. Gigabyte already fried some Ryzens with high voltage, so I don't even consider them. I know because I took an extensive search on the webz but nowhere you can see such behavior en masse as here.

Also, you should go for Tdie when reading temps. HWiNFO reports that OK for me. There is 20C offset from Tdie & Tctl. That's by AMD design. ASRock replaced the reported temp on other boards, my guess is that they did it silently with the Taichi too.

All my fans are blasting @ 100%, so I don't really care about smooth RPM control. Your hand is the best indicator as you noted. IMO 55C is just fine with your cooler. I think you installed it correctly.

To conclude, leave all on auto and wait for a better times (and UEFI). I think your case is really close to the intended operation of your system, you should be just fine. Wink It's also noteworthy that no public software can monitor the real-time voltages and currents. CPU's internal circuity is switching these way too fast. Even if you see 1.55V for 1-2s it means that the CPU went there for a fraction of a second, but monitoring SW can't get to that time resolution.


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB


Posted By: lowdog
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 6:19am
Read the reddit post again where AMD_Robert explains about the "spikes" being normal and part of the technology/specifications of the processor.

There is NO problem with the Asrock board or firmware in regard to the voltage spikes with auto settings in bios.

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X399 Fat Pro Gaming bios 3.10 - TR4 1900X - 64GB G-SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ @ 3133MHz - Vega 64 AIO with EK block - WC Custom loop - 1500W Silverstone PSU - yay


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 7:14am
Originally posted by lowdog lowdog wrote:

Read the reddit post again where AMD_Robert explains about the "spikes" being normal and part of the technology/specifications of the processor.

There is NO problem with the Asrock board or firmware in regard to the voltage spikes with auto settings in bios.


I agree with you the things you said. I won't chant my typical mantra here, though. I anyone wants to see it, all they have to do is to scroll up a few pages. Tongue

When I get to put a new UEFI version I'll be sure to update you guys, so you'd know how it went. That's in case anyone cares. Big smile


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB


Posted By: lowdog
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 11:50am
Watch the 3.10 bios....vcore can creep up by .05 over time so instead of having 1.35 volts load it can gradually rise to 1.4 volts.

This didn't happen with the 3.0 bios.

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X399 Fat Pro Gaming bios 3.10 - TR4 1900X - 64GB G-SKILL TridentZ F4-3200C14Q-64GTZ @ 3133MHz - Vega 64 AIO with EK block - WC Custom loop - 1500W Silverstone PSU - yay


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by lowdog lowdog wrote:

Watch the 3.10 bios....vcore can creep up by .05 over time so instead of having 1.35 volts load it can gradually rise to 1.4 volts.

This didn't happen with the 3.0 bios.


Thanks for the heads-up! HugParty

It's funny how the Taichi is the most sold X370 board AND the most praised one, yet only a select few individuals care about such important things.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks such things are unacceptable. I really wonder how easily people here get over it and go for tons of other workarounds, instead of whining for a fix (like me)?


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 5:53am
" rel="nofollow - Look what I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBmVf0S4UDs

That's the official ASUS Ryzen OC ad, err, guide. While the video is interesting for all OC beginners, I'd like to point out something else there.

Once the guy enters UEFI and start explaining stuff, keep an eye on the Vcore! Even stock ASUS UEFI is reporting constant 1.5V Vcore @3.6GHz!!!

Once he boots into Win and start CPU-Z you can see the voltage spikes often to 1.48V while dude doesn't even blink. Granted, that's a really old UEFI version in this video, but that's an insane Vcore value IMO.

Maybe it's indeed a CPU/AGESA thing? Can someone with other mobos running 1072a post some info? Heck, even Biostar (LOL?) posted 1072a AGESA for their X370 lineup. WTF, ASRock?


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB


Posted By: VUMeter
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 12:21am
^ That  ASUS video makes me wonder.
1.4+v with all cores going in CineBench...hmmm.

To be honest, on stock/auto it's around 1.25v for all-core voltage on 1700X on the TaiChi.  In my case it'll happily do all core loads on just under 1.10v!


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X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
https://valid.x86.fr/ikadaa" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: baskura
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 6:28pm
" rel="nofollow - The voltage spikes you are seeing are NORMAL for Ryzen and you should not be concerned of spikes into the 1.5v range when using the Auto setting for V-core voltage.

What is causing these spikes? It's XFR (Extended Frequency Range) which is a feature of Ryzen which is ONLY enabled when running at stock (i.e. Auto settings). XFR monitors your CPU thousands of times per seconds and dynamically adjusts the overclock and voltage on the fly.

BUT BUT BUT 1.5v WILL DEGRADE RYZEN!!!!!1111

This is correct - however when you see these large voltage spikes they are in fact not over all cores/the whole chip. When your Ryzen CPU boosts to its maximum performance it will bump the voltage momentarily over 1 or 2 cores and it is NOT the same as running high voltage over the whole CPU. The peak voltage is usually when the CPU comes 'off load', are for a split second and WILL NOT damage your chip.

If you overclock your Ryzen CPU/lock your voltage in any way, XFR is disabled which is why you no longer see the voltage spikes. Of course overclocking will net you more performance, but the Auto/Stock settings are SAFE.

This is not an Asrock bug, it's a Ryzen feature, it happens on both my Asrock Taichi and Asus Crosshair VI.

AMD know more than any one of us about what is/isn't safe for their chips and they wouldn't run this way otherwise.


Posted By: VUMeter
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by baskura baskura wrote:

" rel="nofollow - The voltage spikes you are seeing are NORMAL for Ryzen and you should not be concerned of spikes into the 1.5v range when using the Auto setting for V-core voltage.

What is causing these spikes? It's XFR (Extended Frequency Range) which is a feature of Ryzen which is ONLY enabled when running at stock (i.e. Auto settings). 
...
If you overclock your Ryzen CPU/lock your voltage in any way, XFR is disabled which is why you no longer see the voltage spikes. 
...
This is not an Asrock bug, it's a Ryzen feature, it happens on both my Asrock Taichi and Asus Crosshair VI.
...


From what I read, I am in agreement: Max vCore of ~1.55v under single core XFR boost is by design.

What Gigabyte did when they killed a bunch of chips with high vCore ~1.70v, I do not know.  Was it on auto mode?
What I can say is that from P3.00 to P3.10 on the TaiChi went from 1.55v to 1.50v max. vCore under XFR single-core.

You say "lock your voltage" = disable XFR.  That's not true.  As long as you don't change clock speeds or actively disable CPB, then you can indeed lock or offset the vCore and XFR will still work fine.  
I set my vCore to fixed 1.30v and XFR worked fine but vCore SVI2 TFN did not scale down when idle.
Offset mode is working for me with -0.10v and forcing LLC to L4: I see a max. of 1.369v and it drops under idle.

It is a fact that voltage is always kept on the higher than optimum setting so that all chips that leave the factory will work at their advertised max. specs.  For the vast majority, the chips will work below the auto voltages.  It's been the same for Intel, AMD and anyone else.
My old Intel Core2Duo used more volts than necessary, and I could overclock 25% on less than the stock auto max. volts!

One thing that seems to be true is that these modern CPUs are very hard to read data from in the OS, and specifically Windows.
They are self-regulating and so are doing things at rates the OS beyond what the OS can report.  I guess results are sort of averaged out, or a mini-snapshot of the real truth.
The on-chip SMU may request a vCore, may or may not actually get it, and may distribute less than this voltage to the internal parts of the chip (core, cache etc.).  I have a feeling much of the SMU's control is removed when the clock frequency is altered and the chip is made 'dumb' and will stick to distributing voltage by a table or by whatever comes in - in the case of overclocked frequency, whatever the vCore in BIOS is will go to the cores.

It's still a little annoying that AMD aren't just completely clearing this up once and for all.  Of course, they don't want to give out too much info on how their intellectual property works, but this is just general user information.
If they have stated that with overclocking don't go over a max of 1.45v, then it looks very bad to the uneducated when they see 1.55v and they aren't even overclocking!

C'mon AMD, educate us :)



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X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
https://valid.x86.fr/ikadaa" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 7:35pm
Thanks for the clarification! Others pretty much confirmed what you're stating.

Originally posted by baskura baskura wrote:

AMD know more than any one of us about what is/isn't safe for their chips and they wouldn't run this way otherwise.


Alas, AMD are humans as everyone else. Humans are prone to errors. There is no guarantee that seeing something behaves the way it do it the intended modus operandi. It can be a simple bug as well and AMD trying to keep it under the lid until a fix is ready. Don't underestimate the power of marketing and corporate greed.


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2018 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by VUMeter VUMeter wrote:



C'mon AMD, educate us :)



VUMan, thanks for keeping the spirit (and the thread) alive! Clap

The truth is out there! Never let yourselves to be fed the mainstream propaganda! Fight for your right to know the truth, brothers! \m/


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB


Posted By: VUMeter
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 12:30am
" rel="nofollow - I keep forgetting the other major component in electrical power, current.

The reason for the max vCore ceiling when overclocking is because all cores will be running hard pulling an awful lot of current.  A high vCore and all that current means an extreme stress on the CPU.

With respect to our (or my) issue, single-core CorePerformanceBoost and XFR, the seemingly high vCore spikes to ~1.55v and sustained <1.40v aren't an issue due to such low current draw when the other cores are idle.

You can actually watch the vCore drop, and XFR temporarily disable if you fire up a CPU heat stress like Prime95 on 1 or 4 threads (1-2 cores) and throw some other workload at other cores.
Leave a 1-4 thread stress test running and watch the one or two core clocks hit their max CPB+XFR speeds.
Launch another task with affinity set to another core, and then watch the vCore drop and the clock speed on those cores running the stress test drop to the all-core max+XFR frequency.

The 1700X has the following modes when stock/not over-clocked/clock-locked:

1-Core to 2-Core 3.8GHz + 100MHz (XFR) ~1.55v max.
3-Core to 8-Core 3.4GHz + 100MHz (XFR) ~1.3v max.
1-Core to 8-Core 2.2GHz idle ~0.8v

I can't honestly believe that seeing a 1.55v vCore on stock/auto settings is bad.  To many people have reported it and AMD have said it's normal.
However, the annoyance is that they haven't drawn a graphic or written a document to literally state the normal working ranges, and then to also state what is advisable for different overclocking scenarios.
I've seen 1.35v and 1.45v as two possible ceilings for overclocks (assuming all-core and 24/7 fixed vCore).  Now waht about if someone wanted to (not sure why) make their 8-core a 4-core by disabling cores and overclock those?  Is it just under all-core that those numbers are ceilings or under any circumstance?  If it's under any circumstance, then the question comes back to - what the heck is going on in single/dual-core XFR on stock?

AMD could silence a lot of armchair engineers if they just published that info.  They don't even have to go that nitty-gritty, just to say something like:
"Changing clock speed and/or disabling cores will disable some of the functionality of the on-chip power management.  For these reasons, we suggest a safe max. of 1.45v fixed vCore, ideally a 1.35v or under for reasons of prolonged longevity.  In automatic stock configuration, the on-chip power management is in fully enabled. A vCore up to 1.55v may be observed, this is normal behaviour as the actual cores will see less voltage."

But nope, and their own Ryzen Master uses the highest core VID as it's value for vCore [which is the requested voltage from the core, as far as we know, and not the actual voltage - kinda useless data].  So really that'd a lot of use!

Whilst I will continue to wish for a decent answer and explanation, I do feel that I am happy with my system running as it does with the -100mV offset.


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X370 TaiChi | 1700X P3.10 stock clocks | (2x 16GB) 32GB FlareX 2400MHz.
https://valid.x86.fr/ikadaa" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: zlobster
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 2:51am
Originally posted by VUMeter VUMeter wrote:

I can't honestly believe that seeing a 1.55v vCore on stock/auto settings is bad.  To many people have reported it and AMD have said it's normal.

LampTinfoil hat theory time! Lamp
What if AMD are openly lying? Imagine they have some sort of bug or design flaw? Recalling or even admitting this would be the end of them. Maybe the TR & Ryzens will start failing in a year or two because of the high voltage?
LampEnd of tinfoil theory! Lamp

Some other thoughts - as we know, the SMU is the master of the Zen voltages (lol, did I really write that?). SMU has its own firmware, part of AGESA, i.e. it can be patched if flawed. If problem is deeper, then how come we're not seeing new steppings of these CPUs? Maybe the 'problem' is a lie? Who cares, happy clocking!

And the ultimate unfolding drama series for 2018 (offtopic, a little bit): Intel's VT flaw and the kernel patches (https://www.techpowerup.com/240187/amd-struggles-to-be-excluded-from-unwarranted-intel-vt-flaw-kernel-patches) I'm currently stocking on popcorn and beer! P.S. keep your machines away from updates. Looks like we're in for some deepthoating even with our beloved AMD chips.


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1700X ZP-B1 (stock); X370 Taichi (UEFI 3.10); 16GB F4-3200C14-8GFX XMP; 256GB 960 EVO; RX 580 NITRO+ 8GB



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