AMD Ryzen 1800x CPU thermal throttling
Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: AMD Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock AMD motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6224
Printed Date: 06 May 2024 at 11:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: AMD Ryzen 1800x CPU thermal throttling
Posted By: warman675
Subject: AMD Ryzen 1800x CPU thermal throttling
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 12:23am
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" rel="nofollow - As the title says I am building a PC, with that processor and I am having difficulties with temperatures, I can accept that it is very useful the CPU thermal throttling to take care of my processor since it maintains stable temperatures to a maximum of 75°C, but the specifications of the CPU indicate that it can have a maximum of 95°C, it is now well known that the Ryzen processors indicate a temperature 20°C higher than normal, so if my equipment is at 75°C and summed the 20°C, the motherboard believes that it reaches 95°C and protects the processor. And it should be noted that this has a +/- 10% impact on CPU performance. which in theory at 100% yield should reach temperatures around 80°C. I am currently using the Cryorig C7 http://www.cryorig.com/c7.php This is due to the limited space I have and its price/availability. I also have the following motherboard: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157780 to improve ventilation I will buy a new fan, but even with better ventilation, I will not lower 10°C, is there any way to correct this gap of the sum of 20°C? Thank you very much! |
Replies:
Posted By: MisterJ
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 3:39am
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warman65, please list your system specifications in your signature as I have, including BIOS version. I suspect you have purchased an insufficient CPU cooler. I use a Corsair H100i on my 1800X and can run Prime95 as long as I like with temperatures staying below 60C. The H100i V2 is some cheaper and will probably serve. I see almost no chance of talking AMD into raising the throttling temperature. It will just cost them money. I also see little chance people like me understanding the whole sensor/temperature picture. I have heard AMD added 20C for 1800X to make it like other models - makes no sense to me. The only path I see for you is to buy a cooler that is a better cooler and better buy. I also feel that lower temperatures are always better and hitting the limit repeatedly will ultimately shorten your CPU life. I always overkill on power supply and CPU cooler. Good luck and enjoy, John. ------------- Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD |
Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 3:50am
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Along with MisterJ's ask, please include the rooms ambient temp and idle temp in said room. |
Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2017 at 10:40am
Thanks for your answer my system is a Mini Itx system so im very limited with the space. this is the working computer:  I wish i can fit this one but it's too big for the case:  My system: CPU: AMD Ryzen 1800x at stock speed. GPU: Nvidia 1080 ti RAM: 16GB DDR4 3600MHz MOBO: Asrock AB350 Gaming-ITX/ac HDD: 9TB CPU Cooler: Cryorig C7  And my bios is the last one, a few days ago i updated the bios. this is the idle temp:  MOBO:  20 min full load:  Inside:  Here is the MOBO Manual: http://asrock.pc.cdn.bitgravity.com/Manual/Fatal1ty%20AB350%20Gaming-ITXac.pdf" rel="nofollow - Manual And today 13°C Thanks! |
MisterJ wrote:Posted By: TooQik
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 10:19am
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" rel="nofollow - Looking at the picture you've provided of your build, I would hazard a guess that the problem isn't the CPU cooler itself, as the Cryorig C7 is rated for 100W TDP, but rather the case is trapping the hot air inside. Are you able to provide some details on what case you're using and whether it currently has fans to exhaust the hot air? |
Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 12:44pm
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I would love to see an AMD specification document that shows the maximum temperature of a Ryzen 7 1800X. Or of any Ryzen processor. There are multiple safety features to protect a processor. Two are built into the processor itself. One is built into the mother board. Thermal throttling, which is reducing the CPU core speed to stop the CPU temperature from continuing to increase once it reaches a certain temperature, is a safety feature built into the CPU by the manufacture of the CPU. The CPU still operates in this situation, just at a lower core frequency/speed. If the CPU temperature surpasses a certain maximum allowed temperature, both the mother board and the CPU can turn off the CPU to protect it. Usually the mother board will turn off the CPU before the CPU does it by itself. The PC stops working completely in this situation. It is not clear to me which type of thermal safety feature is active in your PC. Is it thermal throttling, or does the PC shut off? The UEFI/BIOS of some mother boards allow you to change the thermal shutdown temperature. I have not seen that feature so far in the UEFI of my ASRock X370 board. There may be a reason for that. The Cryorig C7 is not as good a CPU cooler as the AMD Wraith coolers are. The C7 is rated in testing to be only a little bit better than the Intel stock CPU cooler, which is considered one of the worst CPU coolers we can use. Current Intel CPUs begin to thermal throttle at ~100° C. In a very small PC case like yours, using a C7 with virtually no ventilation at all, I'm not surprised your 1800X is reaching 75° C. If we subtracted the 20°C offset of Tctrl from your idle temperature of 34° C, do you really believe your idle temperature is 14° C with a C7? I don't trust the CAM software, I've read too many bad things about it. At least run the Ryzenmaster software to verify that CAM is correct. http://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master" rel="nofollow - http://www.amd.com/en/technologies/ryzen-master ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 12:47pm
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thanks for your reply, this is my case SilverStone RAVEN https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-Mini-ITX-Computer-RVZ02B/dp/B0161UXXN8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1506919304&sr=8-4&keywords=SilverStone%2BRAVEN&th=1 for that reason i'll buy a new fan to put in the case. but even if i leave the case open, the temps are the same. and by the reviews that's are more or less the temps of c7. Thanks again. |
Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 1:01pm
i see all the temps beatween cam and ryzen master, and are the same, so it shows the real temps, but for the motherboard and the thermal throttling are 20C higher and i cannot see that. and in old bios there is more commun to see the power off at the temp xx. here is thermal throttling, there is a menu for that but not for disabling or correct the temps. and if i disable the c states or whatever, nothing happens. just the same thing at 75C. |
Posted By: TooQik
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 1:23pm
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Thanks for the case details. I've had a look at your case specifications which shows that there are no provisions for exhaust fans so you would have to make modifications to fit a fan to remove the hot air. In your picture I noticed that you have a hard drive sitting below the CPU. This does not seem to be mounted and from the pictures I've seen of the case would be sitting on one of the passive vents. Is this correct? If so, it might be worth moving this hard drive so it doesn't block the CPU vent and trial the PC laying horizontally to see if this affects the temperatures in any way. I actually think that this case isn't a good fit for a high end CPU as it only allows for a CPU cooler height of 58 mm and only has passive ducting. If I were going to spend any money on trying to bring down the CPU temperatures I would look at investing in a new case as a first step. |
Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2017 at 10:00pm
I'm still not sure what is happening, you said thermal throttling, which is the CPU itself reducing its core speed to reduce its temperature, while the PC still works. Does the PC shut off, or does it still work when the CPU temperature is 75° C? It seems you have thermal throttling, the core speed is reduced, but the PC still works. Is that right? C States are a CPU power saving option, which is not related to thermal throttling or thermal shutdown of a CPU. Disabling C States actually causes a CPU to be hotter, since it can't go into a lower power state when it is idle. Disabling random things in the BIOS won't help you. I'll check the thermal throttling options in my X370 board. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2017 at 3:52am
1) Yes im goin to put this thing (dont know how to call it)  to fit a fan in the case. 2) My case is vertically and the CPU is on the bottom of the case so the hard drive is on the bottom of the case, not in the top. this way the graphic card is on top. 3) I investing in that case, but the Cryorig says 100W of tdp, i dont think i'll have this problem. this case can handle my graphics card and the cpu. i think is a good case. |
Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2017 at 3:57am
the disabling of the c states wasnt a ramdom thing xd i dont do that https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/552175-how-to-disable-throttling/ but i dont know if was my mistake on the reading xd Thanks for your help |
Posted By: datonyb
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2017 at 2:23am
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well the best fan i know of for these tiny cases is this http://noctua.at/en/home-product/nh-l12s/specification" rel="nofollow - http://noctua.at/en/home-product/nh-l12s/specification and that states with the 95w am4 YOU MUST ALSO HAVE GOOD CASE VENTALATION basically you need some form of fans on case to get air flowing through it as well and as for your link its not telling you how to prevent thermal throttling its telling you how to force the cpu to run flat out (this as mentioned will make it even hotter) and thats when the hardware will insist on throttling for safety of componants ------------- [url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250]  [/url]3800X, powercolor reddevil vega64, gskill tridentz3866, taichix370, evga750watt gold |
Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 11:18am
hi, thanks for your tip i just bought a https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002CYRROY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 that for fan, it's a very good fan but the result is almost the same, even with CPU and chassis fan at 100%, the CPU still throttle. so this days I'm searching a good cooler and i found this one https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA59T1R00547 seems really good and fits in my case, but the thing now is the ram. first I have this RAM:  https://www.pcfactory.cl/producto=22359 so i think the RAM will not fit with that cooler, any ways i have other RAMs, but I'd like to have this one for myself. and i know the RAM in most cases doesn't need a cooler or something, so in theory I can take off and use the same ram. but if I am arriving at that point I'll put something at the sides like this https://www.falconcomputers.co.uk/media/product/709/400/400/desktop-ddr-sdram-aluminum-memory-ram-heatsink-and-cooler---blue |
Posted By: PetrolHead
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 1:11am
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" rel="nofollow - Wasn't the 20C offset fixed/removed? At least I remember reading it's applied only under load, when it would affect the fan speeds, so idle temps should be close to what they actually are. That being said, the max temp is (AFAIK) 95 C _including_ the offset, so in reality the max temp is 75 C (for short periods) and if your temp reading does not include the offset (may depend on the software you're using), then you're hitting the limit. ------------- Ryzen 5 1500X, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 2x8 GB G.Skill Trident Z 3466CL16, Sapphire Pulse RX Vega56 8G HBM2, Corsair RM550x, Samsung 960 EVO SSD (NVMe) 250GB, Samsung 850 EVO SSD 500 GB, Windows 10 64-bit |
Posted By: warman675
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 2:12am
for that reason i want to change the cooler, and the 20C offset still there, but in one time disabling things in bios, i can go up or skip that, but i was scared becouse i dont want to burn my cpu, so i restart again and put everything like before, and search a new cooler, and i found one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx%3cItem=9SIA59T1R00547%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA59T1R00547 but as i said before, if i use that cooler, probably my RAM will not fit anymore, and as far as i know, the heat spread of the RAM is only for a nice looking, and i wondering if i can remove it and use the RAM widhout the heat spread. and my ram is https://www.pcfactory.cl/producto=22359" rel="nofollow - https://www.pcfactory.cl/producto=22359 Thanks for your reply :) PD: sorry for my english i don't use a corrector :D xd |
Posted By: PetrolHead
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 4:24am
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" rel="nofollow - Hmm. I'm not sure if removing the heat spreaders would cause any issues. At stock clocks and voltages you might be fine, but you'd void any warranty those RAM sticks have. Have you considered undervolting your CPU? That would be a way to lessen the heat load your cooler has to deal with. ------------- Ryzen 5 1500X, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 2x8 GB G.Skill Trident Z 3466CL16, Sapphire Pulse RX Vega56 8G HBM2, Corsair RM550x, Samsung 960 EVO SSD (NVMe) 250GB, Samsung 850 EVO SSD 500 GB, Windows 10 64-bit |
Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 9:47am
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I have these temperature related throttling options in the UEFI/BIOS of my X370 Killer SLI/ac board. I'm not sure if your board's UEFI will have these screens and options: Advanced\AMD CBS\Zen Common Options\Custom Pstates / Throttling: Relaxed EDC Throttling (default value Auto, settings of Auto, Enabled, Disabled) According to this option's description, when set to Disabled, full throttling protection is enabled. Enabled means reduce the amount of time the processor will throttle. Auto is AMD recommendation, which is the same as Disabled. So the default setting is full throttling enabled. So it seems if you set this option to Enabled, the processor will throttle less, which I assume means it allows a higher CPU temperature. H/W Monitor: Over Temperature Protection (default is Enabled, settings of Enabled, Disabled) This option when enabled will shut off the PC when the mother board is over heated. No temperature is specified. Seems strange to me that it is the mother board temperature that is monitored, and not the CPU. You could try to disable this option to check if you can go above 75° C. Those are the only options about temperature throttling of the CPU or any other component. One interesting thing to note in the H/W Monitoring screen. Each fan header has an option called Critical Temperature. When the CPU temperature or whatever temperature the fan header is set to monitor reaches this temperature, the fan on that header will run at 100% or full speed. The default Critical temperature for every fan header is 80° C. If the throttling temperature of the CPU is 75°C, setting Critical Temperature to 80° C by default does not seem to make sense. It should be 75° C, or less, perhaps 70°C. I suggest setting this option to 70° C at least for the CPU Fan, so it runs at 100% when the CPU temperature approaches 75° C. I'm still not certain if Ctcl is being monitored instead of Tdie, although AMD states Tctl is the correct temperature for fan speed control for the 1800X CPU. Nothing is said about the maximum CPU temperature. I have found statements on various websites that the Ryzen throttling temperature is 95° C, but never in something directly from AMD. That is why I still wonder what is correct. https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update" rel="nofollow - https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2017/03/13/amd-ryzen-community-update Your new CPU cooler should help you keep your 1800X cooler, below 75° C, so you may not need to change anything related to CPU throttling. The new CPU cooler might not touch the memory, but it will be close. You should be able to remove the heat spreaders on your memory without damage. My G.SKILL Trident Z and FlareX memory have temperature sensors that are read by HWiNFO64, and are always at ~30° C. That is in a large well ventilated PC case, but memory temperature should not be a major problem. As PetrolHead said, you should check the VCore that is currently set in the UEFI/BIOS for the CPU. The Auto default value is always more than is necessary, and increases the CPU temperature. At stock clock speeds of an 1800X, you should be able to use 1.3V or less for the VCore. The Auto VCore can be as high as 1.5V. ------------- http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">
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