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New build unstability

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: AMD Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock AMD motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6309
Printed Date: 19 May 2024 at 1:24am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: New build unstability
Posted By: Cantine
Subject: New build unstability
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 5:27am
" rel="nofollow - Hi,

I've been facing a problem with my recent built, and I could need some help. To sum up, the computer randomly crashes, mostly when idling.

Here are my specs :

Windows 10, 64 bit
AMD R5 1600
Asrock AB350M Pro4 (Bios 3.1)
Gigabyte GTX 1080 G1
G.Skill Ripjaws V 2666 @ 15-15-15-35
Thermaltake 750w PSU

Here is what I tried so far :

Fresh Windows 10 install (3 times on 3 different drives, 2 ssd and one hdd)
Two diffent PSU (Corsair CX500 and Thermaltake 750W)
Two diffent GPU (GTX 1080 and R9 270)
Every combinaison of ram (A2-B2, A1-B1, A1, A2, B1, B2... With only one stick the computer crashed at Windows loading or before)
Lowering RAM speed (2400 and less)
Loosening Ram timing speed
Bumping vCore to 1.375
Using a diffent wall socket
Unplugging all USB devices except mouse and keyboard
All fresh drivers for all component
No OC (never did on this build yet)

Computer doesn't crash when on full load, I've been running Prime95 for 5 hours without any problem/error.

I'm aware (now) that my Ram ([Ripjaws V] F4-2666C15D-16GVR) is not in the Asrock QVL for my mobo. Could it be the explanation to my problem? Is there a way to make this set of RAM stable with my build?

Moreover I've found another user with the exact same problem (but the memory fault when using MemTest84)

http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6155&title=computer-acting-strange-x370-gaming-k4

He made a video showing what's happening when his computer crashes, just like mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGf5kYS3ID4&t=1s

Thanks for you help!






Replies:
Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 5:41am
" rel="nofollow - What BIOS version are you running? 

If it isn't the latest then try updating. Be sure to use the instant flash option, it is by far the safest method. Download the instant flash BIOS file from your board's product page and follow the instructions. 

You have done a great job troubleshooting so far. Let us know how the update goes (if you have not done so already).


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Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 5:49am
Originally posted by Xaltar Xaltar wrote:

" rel="nofollow - What BIOS version are you running? 

If it isn't the latest then try updating. Be sure to use the instant flash option, it is by far the safest method. Download the instant flash BIOS file from your board's product page and follow the instructions. 

You have done a great job troubleshooting so far. Let us know how the update goes (if you have not done so already).


I've already updated the bios to 3.1 using a thumb drive... It's one of the first thing I did.

Your help is welcomed :)


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 6:00am
" rel="nofollow - Is your windows 10 installation media a fresh download?

I had similar issues with my Taichi (random hanging then resuming) until I did a fresh install using a newly downloaded Win10 installation medium. The problem seemed to be coming from the Windows 10 anniversary update. Whenever I tried to install from my older media it would immediately give me issues once the anniversary update installed (after OS installation). By downloading a fresh install medium you get the update bundled with the install and for some reason that worked for me. I have been stable for months now with no crashes, BSODs or freezing. See my sig for my overclocks (except RAM that proved unstable over time so I am at 3200 now).


-------------


Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 6:08am
I downloaded Windows 10 installer 3 days ago from Microsoft and installed it using a USB drives. I did all the necessary updates too.

Just to clarify, I don't get BSOD or freezing. The monitor, keyboard and mouse shut instantly and everything else keep running, just like in the video above. I have to hard reset the computer from the PSU because even holding the front power switch for 10 seconds doesn't shut the computer.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 6:23am
Hmm, sounds like power but couldn't be given the 2 PSUs you tested.... It is remotely possible that they both have some issue with your board but unlikely. 

The other possibility is RAM as you mentioned. If you can get your hands on some other RAM to test with (preferably from the QVL) that would help nail it down. Ryzen has proven a tricky beast for a lot of people, in the end it is worth it however. I am loving my Ryzen system Wink

It's 2am here now so I am off to bed but good luck and let us know how you fare Thumbs Up


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Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 8:49am
" rel="nofollow - Have you installed the AMD Chipset drivers? It is a must.

The latest ones are at the bottom of the page at:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/download


"AMD Chipset, AHCI, USB 3.0 and RAID Drivers"


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:28am
" rel="nofollow - It seems unlikely that your memory is the problem if you can run stress tests for hours without any failures. Memory problems are also usually BSODs and do not cause the video signal to fail.

If the monitor goes blank, which does not happen for any kind of Windows failure or BSOD, I would suspect the video source. Windows 10 likes to install drivers unless you have it configured to not do so. When Windows installed video drivers, I had problems like this with the screen getting no signal.

Did you install the video driver yourself? Do you have Windows 10 configured to not install drivers? Do you still have the same video driver version installed that you installed, if you did it yourself? I had problems with my video card until I made sure that Windows 10 did not install any drivers

If the monitor goes blank, how do you know that the mouse and keyboard are not working?

I also wonder about the PSU IMO. 500W is the usual minimum for a GTX 1080, and that Corsair CX500 is a basic PSU. The Thermaltake might be 750W, but I'd like to know the model number to check the voltage rail specs.

I've seen Ryzen users say Ripjaws V DDR4 memory works fine, and other that said it doesn't. No G.SKILL model number so we don't know which type you have.


-------------
http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:35am
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

" rel="nofollow - Have you installed the AMD Chipset drivers? It is a must.

The latest ones are at the bottom of the page at:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/download


"AMD Chipset, AHCI, USB 3.0 and RAID Drivers"

This ^

Once installed, set Ryzen balanced power plan, disable USB and Pcie power savings inside the plan.

Boot to UEFI, disable CPU C6 state. Reboot and let us know how it did.

Cheers.


-------------
R7 1700 @3.90 1.25v - GSkill TridentZ 3200c16 Hynix MFR @2933 14-16-16-32 - Fatal1ty Gaming X370 K4 - Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 - WD 256 Black M2 Nvme as Windows 10 boot drive - EVGA Gold 650W


Posted By: johndms
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:36am
This is a new one. I think I see where wardog may be going with the suggestion of the AMD chipset drivers. This will also install the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan which will, by default, prevent the CPU frequency from dropping below 90% at idle.

It doesn't makes sense, but I guess if it only crashes at idle, I'm guessing Windows's default balanced power plan lowers the CPU frequency and voltage a bit too much to conserve power/reduce heat. I'm wondering if disabling Cool and Quiet, and C6 State would also stop this from crashing at idle as it'd keep the voltage from dropping so low.


Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:42am
Originally posted by johndms johndms wrote:

This is a new one. I think I see where wardog may be going with the suggestion of the AMD chipset drivers. This will also install the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan which will, by default, prevent the CPU frequency from dropping below 90% at idle.

It doesn't makes sense, but I guess if it only crashes at idle, I'm guessing Windows's default balanced power plan lowers the CPU frequency and voltage a bit too much to conserve power/reduce heat. I'm wondering if disabling Cool and Quiet, and C6 State would also stop this from crashing at idle as it'd keep the voltage from dropping so low.

John, you can lower the min CPU power state inside the plan to whatever you want. I have mine set to 20% and my CPU idles at 1550Mhz and goes all the way up to my max OC.

In my findings, theres seems to be a problem when Windows puts some devices, including the CPU cores, in a low power state mode.

You want to leave C&Q enabled for the automatic CPU power savings. Only disable C6 state to not let Windows shutting down your CPU cores.


-------------
R7 1700 @3.90 1.25v - GSkill TridentZ 3200c16 Hynix MFR @2933 14-16-16-32 - Fatal1ty Gaming X370 K4 - Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 - WD 256 Black M2 Nvme as Windows 10 boot drive - EVGA Gold 650W


Posted By: johndms
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:49am
Originally posted by nangu nangu wrote:

John, you can lower the min CPU power state inside the plan to whatever you want. I have mine set to 20% and my CPU idles at 1550Mhz and goes all the way up to my max OC.

In my findings, theres seems to be a problem when Windows puts some devices, including the CPU cores, in a low power state mode.

You want to leave C&Q enabled for the automatic CPU power savings. Only disable C6 state to not let Windows shutting down your CPU cores.
I'm aware you can change it, but by default it's at 5%. This person's experiencing crashes at idle. My train of thought is Windows may be dropping the voltage too low.
Your findings may be correct and the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan by default prevents the frequency from going below 90%, instead of 5%, thus hopefully fixing the problem.
YOU may want to leave CnQ and C6 enabled, but it's not mandatory. While troubleshooting, it's sometimes necessary to give people additional options and suggestions to try should other ideas fail.


Posted By: nangu
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 11:23am
Originally posted by johndms johndms wrote:

Originally posted by nangu nangu wrote:

John, you can lower the min CPU power state inside the plan to whatever you want. I have mine set to 20% and my CPU idles at 1550Mhz and goes all the way up to my max OC.

In my findings, theres seems to be a problem when Windows puts some devices, including the CPU cores, in a low power state mode.

You want to leave C&Q enabled for the automatic CPU power savings. Only disable C6 state to not let Windows shutting down your CPU cores.
I'm aware you can change it, but by default it's at 5%. This person's experiencing crashes at idle. My train of thought is Windows may be dropping the voltage too low.
Your findings may be correct and the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan by default prevents the frequency from going below 90%, instead of 5%, thus hopefully fixing the problem.
YOU may want to leave CnQ and C6 enabled, but it's not mandatory. While troubleshooting, it's sometimes necessary to give people additional options and suggestions to try should other ideas fail.

5% default is the Windows balanced power plan, not the AMD Ryzen one. The AMD tuned power plan is 90% minimum, so you need to tune it if you want lower frequencies at idle.

I agree with you about suggestions, but try one at a time because all suggestions at once is a mess in the end, and you didn't find what was the real cause of the instability.

I suggested to try all of that at once because it's the only combination which worked on my end to avoid random freezes and mouse stutters at idle and after long sleep periods.

Cheers.


-------------
R7 1700 @3.90 1.25v - GSkill TridentZ 3200c16 Hynix MFR @2933 14-16-16-32 - Fatal1ty Gaming X370 K4 - Gigabyte GTX 1070 G1 - WD 256 Black M2 Nvme as Windows 10 boot drive - EVGA Gold 650W


Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2017 at 10:44pm
Thank you for your help guys,

I just reflashed the bios just to make sure

Installed AMD Chipset drivers

Set Ryzen power plan as suggested

Disabled C6 state and Cool'n'quiet

Will see how it holds and report back....


Posted By: johndms
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 3:30am
Originally posted by Cantine Cantine wrote:

Thank you for your help guys,

I just reflashed the bios just to make sure

Installed AMD Chipset drivers

Set Ryzen power plan as suggested

Disabled C6 state and Cool'n'quiet

Will see how it holds and report back....
I fear you may have combined two suggested methods of fixing the crashing based on my thoughts and ramblings. If you install the AMD chipset drivers, it'll install the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan. If you're not overclocking the CPU and are using that specific plan, you will not want to disable Cool'n'Quiet or C6 State options. Those were alternative suggestions if the Ryzen plan didn't work; a "one or the other" scenario, but not both. Sorry if my thought process wasn't able to be followed. :)


Posted By: Ivan_83
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 9:52pm
" rel="nofollow - http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4593&title=x370-taichi-goes-blank-code-00

Last few messages.
1. I change CPU to manufactured on 25 week.
2. I remove thermal pads "oil" around chipset.


Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 12:59am
Originally posted by johndms johndms wrote:


I fear you may have combined two suggested methods of fixing the crashing based on my thoughts and ramblings. If you install the AMD chipset drivers, it'll install the Ryzen Balanced Power Plan. If you're not overclocking the CPU and are using that specific plan, you will not want to disable Cool'n'Quiet or C6 State options. Those were alternative suggestions if the Ryzen plan didn't work; a "one or the other" scenario, but not both. Sorry if my thought process wasn't able to be followed. :)


Thank you John,

I tried your two solutions separately, and it still chashed.

It's now freezing while playing games too... Monitor doesn't shut, but everything freezes.

I tried going back to bios version 2.5 and the crashes (monitor and keyboard shutting) were less frequent.


Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 1:00am
Originally posted by Ivan_83 Ivan_83 wrote:

" rel="nofollow - http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4593&title=x370-taichi-goes-blank-code-00

Last few messages.
1. I change CPU to manufactured on 25 week.
2. I remove thermal pads "oil" around chipset.


I'll have a look at it.

What do you mean by "change CPU to manufactured on 25 week" ?

What did you use to remove the oil?

Thanks


Posted By: Ivan_83
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 2:01am
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6scnlg/ryzen_reading_your_production_batch_number/" rel="nofollow - https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6scnlg/ryzen_reading_your_production_batch_number/
https://i.imgur.com/bwpKVrr.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://i.imgur.com/bwpKVrr.jpg


Posted By: Ivan_83
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 3:54pm
PS: AB350M Pro4, AB350 Pro4, AB320M Pro4 does not have thermal pad on chipset, there is some sort of compound, without oil. At least on mine AB350M Pro4.


Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 7:44pm
Everything was clean.... No oil at all...


Posted By: Cantine
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2017 at 10:46am
UPDATE

I finally found the problem!

After trying eventhing you suggested me and more, I resigned and ordered new RAM (G.Skill FlareX 2400) which was on the Asrock AB350M QVL. To my surprise (and disapointment), it did not help at all. Even worst, my cumputer was crashing more often than never.

The only thing left to this point was to try a different motherboard. So I went and bought another motherboard (not an Asrock this time).

The computer have been running stable for more than 72 hours as of now.

All in all, I'm glad I found where the problem was coming from. On the other side, it's really frustrating because I spent way more money on the build than I had planned to. Add the cost of the not needed new PSU + the not needed RAM + not supposed to be needed Mobo and you get the portrait.

I'm now debating with myself if it would be worth the effort to RMA the Asrock mobo. The process seems to be really complicated, and according to what I've red, I'll have to spend another 30$ to have the mobo shipped (I'm in Canada) to Asrock.

Again, thanks to all of you guys who tried to help me, that was really appreciated.



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