Print Page | Close Window

z370 Taichi/8700k OC voltages too high

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: OverClocking(OC) Zone
Forum Name: OC Technical Discussion
Forum Description: OC enthusiast's tech talk
URL: http://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6490
Printed Date: 10 Jun 2023 at 9:42pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: z370 Taichi/8700k OC voltages too high
Posted By: N.I.
Subject: z370 Taichi/8700k OC voltages too high
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 3:59am
" rel="nofollow - BIOS version 1.17
Z370 Taichi
8700k dellided/metal TIM
Win 10 set to Balanced power mode

If I set the CPU to 45 locked on all cores and set LLC to 1 and a fixed voltage of 1.200v I get min voltages of .665 but sustained voltage under load of 1.46.  If I set the LLC to anything other than 1 the voltages go higher (level 3 got to 1.54).  Load temps are in the mid 60s.

If I lock the CPU at 4.8 on cores, LLC 1, voltage at 1.200 I get the exact same results... .665 to 1.46
65c.

If I lock the CPU to 50 with everything the same I get same voltages but temps in the low 90s.

Is there some setting I am not seeing to get the voltages down under 1.4? This is really frustrating.


Forgot to mention... I reset BIOS back to default and I am getting VID .665 to 1.414. So basically this board seems to have its factory voltages set WAY too high... this is with Multicore Enhancement set to Disabled





Replies:
Posted By: N.I.
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 6:10am
" rel="nofollow - OK, I gave up on custom OCing and went over to the Optomized OC settings menu, but no matter what setting I set that to (even the lowest of 4.5 GHz) when I start Prime95 (latest version) it turns down the CPU to 4.295 GHz. This happens no matter what I set the BIOS OC setting to.
Temps never go above 70c

If I set the board to no OC and then just enable Multicore Enhancement it idles at 4.7 GHz and then under load goes down to 4.3 and voltages are pegged at 1.414
Temps do not go above 65c

Could this be bad board power management?




Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 8:57am
Originally posted by N.I. N.I. wrote:

" rel="nofollow - BIOS version 1.17
Z370 Taichi
8700k dellided/metal TIM
Win 10 set to Balanced power mode

If I set the CPU to 45 locked on all cores and set LLC to 1 and a fixed voltage of 1.200v I get min voltages of .665 but sustained voltage under load of 1.46.  If I set the LLC to anything other than 1 the voltages go higher (level 3 got to 1.54).  Load temps are in the mid 60s.

If I lock the CPU at 4.8 on cores, LLC 1, voltage at 1.200 I get the exact same results... .665 to 1.46
65c.

If I lock the CPU to 50 with everything the same I get same voltages but temps in the low 90s.

Is there some setting I am not seeing to get the voltages down under 1.4? This is really frustrating.


Forgot to mention... I reset BIOS back to default and I am getting VID .665 to 1.414. So basically this board seems to have its factory voltages set WAY too high... this is with Multicore Enhancement set to Disabled




If you're monitoring VIDs, that is not the true VCore. VIDs are normally much higher than the true VCore, and are not the actual voltage being used by the CPU. What are you using to monitor VCore? Is that the just in the UEFI, or in Windows?

VID is what the processor's VID table believes it needs, which is not necessarily (or at all) what the VCore needs to be. From experience with an i7-7700k, once you OC above 4.7GHz, the VCore requirement takes off. BTW, the highest VID programmed into these processors is 1.52V, and I've seen users run them at that voltage, suicide runs of course.

I suggest HWiNFO64 to monitor both VIDs and the actual VCore:

https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php" rel="nofollow - https://www.hwinfo.com/download.php



-------------
http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: N.I.
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2017 at 10:46am
I am using HW64, but thanks.
I just don't think the Taichi can do a proper OC at this point.

I have gone through every combination I can and no matter what either the voltages are too high or the CPU power throttles.  Temps are all within normal parameters though as this has been delidded.

I am also getting Yes on "IA: Max Turbo Limit" and "RING: Max VR Voltage, ICCmax, PL4" in HW64


Posted By: N.I.
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2017 at 12:23am
I reset the BIOS back to default, disabled multi core enhancement, set Windows to performance mode and HW64 is reporting an idle voltage of 1.395. Prime965 torture test spikes that to 1.414.

Went back into BIOS and set multiplier to 47 and voltages are idle 1.395 and spike to 1.519.

Can anyone tell me how to reduce voltages? Just going in and setting a manual voltage to 1.35 or whatever has no effect whatsoever.

Screen shot of 47 locked speeds with default voltages.  This is identical to the voltages if I go in and manually set the voltage to Fixed and 1.whatever...




Posted By: japau
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2017 at 11:23pm
" rel="nofollow - Hi N.I,

I got Asrock z370 Taichi allso with 8700k OC to 5.0-5.2 depending on heat i want to generate. Are you running on 1.10 / 1.17 / 1.20 BIOS?

I suggest first you do is Clear Cmos and then update to latest 1.20 BIOS.

Then on new bios you should first set LLC=1 (Asrock LCC is counter intuitive to other MB manufacturers)

Then try example offset -50mV and all core x46-50 and see where your Voltage lead from Intels VID table. Allso you can try manual 1.35V and see (HWINFO64 VCore) with example CPU-Z Stresstest (light load) what voltage your processor cores are using.

If after latest bios your voltages skyrocket i think your board is dud. better RMA for new.


With the latest BIOS i noticed my 50x multiplier (-30mV offset) run around 20mV more, so i had to reduce offset to -50mV. Seems i get a bit more fluctuation in voltage than with 1.17BIOS that i dont like. Mayby some Asrock emplyee can verify this?


PROBLEM: You are watching intel's VID table, that is not the real voltage your processor is using. Scroll down where you see VCore. Thats your voltage that you can alter with BIOS settings.


Posted By: N.I.
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2017 at 1:49am
Thanks japau, appreciate the info.
I stopped using HW64 because the vcore voltages were always ".665" volts so I could never tell what they really were. I have switched to CPU-Z and that seems to give accurate readings.
I am on 1.17 BIOS.
Right now I am stable at x48 with 1.315v and highest temp is 81c with Prime95 torture test.

I will try your above settings and see what I get, thanks again.




Posted By: japau
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2017 at 3:20am
" rel="nofollow - What cooler and what liquid metal are you using? I allso delided mine. I can run 50x  1.31V. 
Temps should be around same as voltages are pretty close.

Im using NH-D15s and get arround 70'c prime temps with 1.318v. 

Did you apply liquid metal on both surfaces (processor and heat spreader) before putting things back together, or only on the silicon side? Allways best connect when applied on both sides.

1.31V for stable x48 is good starting point.

For 50x stability other voltages i apply,

VCCIO 1.140 (1.160V read with HWINFO, asrock boost 20mV)
VCCSA 1.170 (1.200V read with HWINFO, asrock boost 30mV)
DRAM 1.38V (1.400V read with HWINFO, asrock boost 20mV) 

My RAM is running 4000-17-17-17-2T, Could not get 4133c19 any tighter nor really stable.


I would not stress too much full prime AVX temps as those you hardly ever encounter. Would rather find nice offset voltage so that with light loads your voltages drop and your fans dont have to run so loud.


Hardest part of Coffee lake OC was to try getting 4000+ memory timings correct and stable. With liquid metal theres allways room for temps if high AVX loads hit. with AVX loads even my 24/7 offset voltages jump to 1.36+V even when im fully stable with 1.32V.

Just a thought.




Posted By: N.I.
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2017 at 4:01am
Used Conductanaught on both die and lid, yes. Using same cooler D15 in a Carbide Air 540 case... basically the best airflow case ever made.

I can go x49 with 1.36v (temps in high 80s) and x50 with 1.40v but temps are in the mid to high 90s. Voltages any lower than this fail in Prime95 torture test about 8 minutes in.

I am starting to think my 8700k is a dud... I have a spare 8600k, maybe I should be trying that instead.


Posted By: delatroy
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 4:29am
Looks like I have the same issue:

Are you also seeing differences in voltages between CPUz, Core Temp and A-Tuning at idle and under load?

I'm on the 8700k, Taichi @5ghz LL1 @ 1.32v in bios and I get the following peak voltages under load:

* CPUz 1.328v
* Core Temp 1.4191
* A Tuning 1.318v

That's huge variance over bios even with ASRock LLC1's negative vdroop.
  • Is this a bug?
  • What's going on?
  • Is any correct
  • Why are they all different?




Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2017 at 11:48am
Originally posted by delatroy delatroy wrote:

Looks like I have the same issue:

Are you also seeing differences in voltages between CPUz, Core Temp and A-Tuning at idle and under load?

I'm on the 8700k, Taichi @5ghz LL1 @ 1.32v in bios and I get the following peak voltages under load:

* CPUz 1.328v
* Core Temp 1.4191
* A Tuning 1.318v

That's huge variance over bios even with ASRock LLC1's negative vdroop.
  • Is this a bug?
  • What's going on?
  • Is any correct
  • Why are they all different?




First, VID is NOT the actual VCore. They are two different things.

Core Temp labels the reading as the VID. VID is the easiest thing to read from an Intel CPU, since it comes from an internal register whose ID/location is known and easily read. VID is the voltage requested by the processor from Intel's built in VID table, for the core speed, CPU load, etc. Note there is a VID for every core, but whichever core requests the highest VID voltage, that is what will be provided to the processor.

VID voltage is usually if not always more than the actual VCore required by the cores in a CPU. Intel over compensates the VID voltage values to insure the processor will always operate.

The actual VCore voltage being used by the board is normally always lower than the actual VCore voltage being provided to the CPU. If your board has CPU VRM voltage sensor outputs, only shown by a few programs (HWiNFO64 will show CPU VRM output voltage if the board provides it), you'll see that voltage is below that of the VID, and very close to the actual VCore.

Reading the actual VCore provided to a CPU takes specific programming for EVERY make of board, and possibly different between different models of the same make of board. That's why you see just the VID being displayed by some programs, it's easy to do.

Facts about monitoring programs:

Is the VID or "VCore" reading a continuous, analog meter type of reading? No, it is a sample reading done at specific programmed intervals, such as once every two, three, or five seconds. Each monitoring program has its own VID/VCore sample interval programmed into it. HWiNFO64's sample interval can be set by the user, the default is 2,000ms/2 seconds.

When running multiple monitoring programs at the same time, do they have their sample intervals synchronized? How could they be synchronized, when they can have different intervals between samples?

Next, if two monitoring programs try to read a sample at the same time, for some reason that results in one or both programs receiving bad data. That is just a reality of the sensor chips used in mother boards to provide readings like VCore. So monitoring programs that are programmed correctly use a read instruction that waits its turn to get the data. So we are assured that the sample read by each program is not read at exactly the same time.

Adding these three things together, results in the differences between readings of multiple monitoring programs. Include a VID reading instead of the true VCore, we have another difference.

Now consider the CPU itself. Is it using the same VCore constantly? It may or may not. If any of the CPU performance and/or power saving options are enabled (Turbo, Power Saving Mode, SpeedStep, C1E, C States, etc), and the Windows Power Plan is not set to High Performance, the VCore will change constantly, except when under a constant load. In this scenario, the VCore will change thousands of times a second. Multiple monitoring programs each reading this dynamic VCore at different times will result in different readings. This does not take into consideration the CPU Cache Ratio, Long and Short Term Power and Current option settings, etc, which all affect the VCore.

How do we get a static (or as close as possible), non-changing VCore? Only by using Fixed Voltage as the VCore mode, none of the CPU power saving features enabled, Turbo not active by an all core OC at or beyond the max rated Turbo frequency, LLC set to the highest level, and the Long and Short Term current and power setting set high enough, etc. With  the Windows Power Plan set to High Performance, of course, and a high quality PSU whose +12V rail will not droop much under high loads.

Which is correct? They all probably are, for the reasons I just explained. When each program read the VID or VCore, that's what it was when it took its sample, each at a slightly different time in human terms, but in CPU terms, very far apart. Core Temp read the VID, the other two the actual VCore, each in turn.

We'd like to believe that a VCore reading is simple just like the speedometer reading in our cars. But it is for more complicated than that. By the time we see it on the program's display, it has changed many, many times, unless we have it locked down statically.





-------------
http://valid.x86.fr/48rujh" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: delatroy
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2017 at 5:45am
Many thanks for your detailed reply - very informative. I'm getting the hang of it more and I'm going by CPUz and A-Tuning for the load numbers.

Provisionally I'm at
50 at 1.275v bios / 1.280v CPUz load LLC1
51 1.380v bios / 1.396v CPUz load LLC1

Is there any way on the Taichi to measure VRM temperatures?






Posted By: amd7674
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2017 at 8:43am
" rel="nofollow -
Originally posted by delatroy delatroy wrote:


Is there any way on the Taichi to measure VRM temperatures?



+1... Does anyone know how to read VRM temps?


Posted By: Dikonou
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2018 at 4:09am
" rel="nofollow - Have a similar issue here.....

HWinfo64 shows vcore 1.344 max and core VID 1.439 but
on CPU-Z while stress testing with cinebench15 on CPU test vcore never went above 1.216!

no OC.... but i run with Cstates off and the core multiplier enabled... 4.7Ghz

Which one should i take for correct?


Posted By: TAMW
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2018 at 1:26pm
" rel="nofollow - A bit off topic here, but didn't want to make a separate thread for one question..

The Z370 Taichi, I can buy a i7 8700 non K and still overclock it freely via bclk like the old days? Or am I mistaken?


Posted By: SkyCorrigan
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 10:33am
" rel="nofollow - I believe so. There is a TekSyndicate video where they mention that exact thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Ya6wUAsTg


Posted By: SkyCorrigan
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2018 at 10:36am
" rel="nofollow - You have a fixed voltage set and your voltage during idle would go down adaptively? Are you sure you are not running offset? That would explain why your vcore would go very high


Posted By: Anth_iv
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 8:17pm
" rel="nofollow - Should I start thinking it?ôs my motherboard and not my CPU causing me to not hit 5ghz?

8700k delidded
Taichi of course
H115i pro
Tridentz 3000/15

I try 1.37 V in bios and 50 multiplier. Running x264 for about 10 seconds max and get BSOD. Temps during that short time are about 74C

I should be able to do better than this. :(.


Posted By: chinmoypborah
Date Posted: 28 Oct 2018 at 3:28pm
Thanks?

Originally posted by Moderator Moderator wrote:

Banned


-------------
chinmoypborah


Posted By: Globespy
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2018 at 7:14am
Originally posted by chinmoypborah chinmoypborah wrote:

Thanks?
Originally posted by Moderator Moderator wrote:

Banned

Why do you post this trash here


Posted By: arso96
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2018 at 10:19pm
" rel="nofollow -
reasonable is relative to your computer. Your temps are fine, delidding will obviously help.

LLC explanation (I keep mine @ llc1 w/ taichi as well)= https://youtu.be/NMIh8dTdJwI

Increasing clock speeds will increase fps as long as it's stable. Increasing your ram speed will also yield more fps, same with OC'ing GPU(your results will vary depending on hardware). Your best bet is to OC them all, why buy all that expensive gear to just let it run at stock? Pascal gpu's don't OC too well if you already have a factory oc'ed card, but it can still help fps and frametimes(1% and .01% lows which are different than just fps). You can youtube basically all these questions and see the difference with graphs.

Real bench is fine. Prime is stupid and makes your computer do things it will never do(opinion, but a strong one)


Posted By: Globespy
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2019 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by amd7674 amd7674 wrote:

[URL=][/URL]
Originally posted by delatroy delatroy wrote:


Is there any way on the Taichi to measure VRM temperatures?
<span style="margin: 0px auto; border: 2px dotted rgb255, 165, 0; : ; : 2147483647; visibility: ; left: 319px; width: 1px; top: 129px; height: 1px;"></span><span style=": 2147483647; : ; visibility: ; left: 305px; width: 50px; top: 115px; height: 20px; font-size: 10px; color: black;"></span>


+1... Does anyone know how to read VRM temps?


Yep.
Get latest HWInfo64 and launch with 'sensors only':

There will be 2 entries for 'Renesas ISL69138' controller, and you can get rid of one of these simply by comparing 'VR Loop1' with the 'VR VCC Temp (SVID)' reading from your CPU.
If they match, then this is the correct controller.
'VR Loop1' is your VRM temps.

Also of note is the 'VR VOUT' reading under the same 'Renesas ISL69138' controller - this is your real vCore reading, as it's much closer to the CPU and bypasses circuit resistance.
Assuming you are running fixed voltage OC (the offset on this board is a joke) and LLC1, you will see under stress testing that 'VR VOUT' will show a lower value than 'vCore', showing just how garbage this board's tightest LLC option is, with variances in the 200mv range.

AsRock won't tell you anything about this 'VR VOUT' sensor or the Renesas Controller, saying some stuff about 'secret proprietary' info they can't divulge.
Thankfully the guy who developed HWInfo64 knows an insider who has successfully measured this data using a very expensive, calibrated oscilloscope and the 'VR VOUT' is the real vCore reading.

AsRock's complete lack of customer tech support is pretty shady, and it's difficult to understand why they even bother putting quality components in enthusiast level boards when they provide virtually no tech support.
My next PC will use Asus or Gigabyte board, with real adaptive voltage and tight LLC options that can help stabilize a higher level OC.



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net