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Z97 extreme6 slooooow boot

Printed From: ASRock.com
Category: Technical Support
Forum Name: Intel Motherboards
Forum Description: Question about ASRock Intel Motherboards
URL: https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=839
Printed Date: 25 Dec 2024 at 12:30am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Z97 extreme6 slooooow boot
Posted By: jglynn43
Subject: Z97 extreme6 slooooow boot
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 9:28am
OK I hope someone out there knows what is going on with this. I'm on my second Z97 extreme6 MB (the first was actually an ac board but I re-used the wifi mini board on the second). Both boards were set up just plain vanilla, no overclocking or tweaking and worked great with 2-3 second boots everytime. After some time (two months with board 1, one WEEK with board 2), on a reboot USB went away and boot time went to around 90 seconds. When I say boot time, I mean the time to boot into the OS loader. And when I say the USB went away, I mean none of the USB ports, except for the ASMedia ones, no longer had any power.

Since I only have a keyboard and mouse plugged into the USB ports, I don't think it's because I'm pulling too much power on that circuit. Why did I get another? I didn't see it happen the first time. The PC had shutdown and I wasn't sure what happened. The second time I watched the LED go dark on my mouse, never to light up again on that port.

What gives?



Replies:
Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2015 at 3:44pm
I have a Z97 Extreme6, and have never had your problems.

What Intel USB port(s) did you use, those on the IO panel or on the PC case via the USB headers on the board? Were they USB 2.0 ports, or USB 3.0?

What mouse are you using?

My guess about your problem is you have blown the fuses in the USB ports power channel/connection. There are small, non-user replaceable fuses on the board to protect the board and device connected to the USB ports from over current draw. There are specs for the maximum current draw on the USB ports, USB 3.0 has higher power specs than USB 2.0.

You would need to closely examine the areas on the board where the fuses would be, located somewhere near the USB ports. You would likely need a magnifying glass to find the fuses unless they left a tiny by visible burn mark. I don't know the exact location of the fuses on the board.

Why the fuses are blowing (IF that is correct) is another question. It seems you've had this happen now on two of these boards? Many possibilities, the first thing I would consider is the mouse itself. If a wired mouse, any possible wires shorting anywhere in the cable? Could be near either end or internally to the mouse.

Another thing is the metal plate that covers the connections on the IO panel, that comes with the board. The plate has small metal tabs on it that are meant to contact the outside of the various connectors. Those tabs are easily bent out of their correct position when inserting the board onto the mother board tray, and I have seen them actually sticking into the connector openings that are large, like USB ports or the network cable port.

The slow boot you described seems to be a long POST process, that happens before Windows starts to load/boot. Do you have the small POST beep speaker connected to the board, and the beep enabled in the BIOS? When POST completes successfully you get a single beep. Also, the Dr Debug display of the POST codes are probably showing POST testing the USB ports, which never completes due to lack of power. Somehow POST continues, which is Ok since the board will still work with dead USB ports.

If you answer my questions and maybe give some more information we can continue trying to discover what is happening.


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Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 9:28am
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query.

In both cases it was the USB 3 ports on the IO panel on the rear, but only the Intel ones not the ASMedia 3.0 ports right next to them. The USB 2 port next to the Dr Debug continued to work as did ports connected to the USB 3 header and USB 2 header on the bottom of the board.

The mouse is a standard 2 button scroll-wheel model (Dell branded); nothing fancy.

I suspect the reason for the long POST is that the MB is querying the ports and they never respond. It is also causing long boot times for the OS (Linux, BTW); most likely for the same reason since they still show up using lsusb.

I still have MB #1 so I can check it for burned up surface mount components. They are tiny and I do have a lighted magnifying glass on my workbench but it would be nice to know where to look :-).


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 11:42am
In general, the fuses will be close to the USB 3.0 ports that are apparently broken.

So if the USB 3.0 ports at the top of the IO panel in the same metal rectangular box as the PC/2 port are bad, then the area on the mother board just behind that box is the place to look. You'll find printing on the board in that area, "USB3_12" for USB 3.0 ports 1 and 2.

Beyond the general area, which is also partially blocked by one VRM heat sink, every board is laid out differently, so it is impossible to be specific. That part of the board has many small parts on it, making it more challenging. If you can read any writing on the board, parts have code letters and numbers to identify them. Fuses should be "Fx", where x is a number, such as "F101". Capacitors are 'C', resistors are 'R', and transistors and integrated circuit chips are 'Q' or "IC".

You could check another area of the board that is less "busy", like the USB headers for the PC case at the bottom of the board. You might be able to find a part marked "Fx", so you'll know what the fuse looks like.

Would I be surprised if Dell had some kind of proprietary mouse connection for their all in one PCs? Sounds crazy but they do that with their PC fans.

If a mouse is blowing USB 3.0 fuses, which have at least three times the power capability of a USB 2.0 port (and only work at USB 1.1 speed BTW), then that puts the mouse on the short list of suspects IMO.


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Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2015 at 12:30pm
The mouse is actually the only common denominator since I tossed the original keyboard after MB #1 blew up (at the time, the mouse was plugged into its extension port). According to the sticker on the bottom, it's 5V 100mA so it should be well within USB 3 spec. Lsusb shows it pulling 98mA right now. Maybe it has an intermittent short. I don't have the equipment to check and nothing looks broken from the outside.

The thing is, after the first failure and I got it to work again on the ASMedia ports or the front panel ones from the header, the mouse and keyboard work. And they worked there for two months on MB #1 until I got a spare $160 to try again. Now I have the same issue with MB #2. Intel USB 3 ports are dead but other than that it works. I'm using it right now.

Of course this does not mean that the mouse is not fubar, but it is odd that only this set of ports keeps breaking. I will definitely be looking at the MB closely this weekend. Gotta get ready for work now. 5 AM comes early :-)


Posted By: core9
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2015 at 2:59am
I'm seeing the same issue you are describing jglynn43. Slow boot 20-30 seconds to POST and the non-working USB. I need to inspect the board in more detail and post my findings.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2015 at 1:43am
I wanted to post a followup to this issue. First the usb ports do still have power. On a lark, I plugged my phone into one of the "dead" ports. The device was not recognized but it did charge. 

Secondly, due to an unrelated issue of an unrecognized IDE by the BIOS, I had to reset the CMOS. After 5 or 6 resets to get the IDE drive working, the Dr DOS USB error that I had been seeing was also gone. The formerly non-working USB ports now worked and the boot time was back to 2 seconds.

For about a week. Then it was back to broken and the CMOS reset trick doesn't seem to be working this time. Is there some undocumented factory reset I just happened to stumble on before?


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2015 at 5:38am
Look in Device Manager that you quite possibly have the ubiquitous "Unknown Device" listed please.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2015 at 6:33am
No Windows on this kubuntu box Smile and I'm starting to wonder if that might be part of the problem. Immediately prior to the last failure I had updated my kernel and rebooted. Perhaps the microcode update caused a problem with what was in the CMOS?


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2015 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by jglynn43 jglynn43 wrote:

No Windows on this kubuntu box Smile and I'm starting to wonder if that might be part of the problem. Immediately prior to the last failure I had updated my kernel and rebooted. Perhaps the microcode update caused a problem with what was in the CMOS?



re: microcode

Have you seen the below:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25512/Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-File


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 21 Dec 2015 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


re: microcode

Have you seen the below:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25512/Linux-Processor-Microcode-Data-File



Scratch that. Doesn't apply here


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 22 Dec 2015 at 9:31am
Yes that is what I was referring to. Ubuntu, at least, takes care of loading that when you enable third-part drivers. What I was wondering was what the heck did I do to "fix" it the last time? I wasn't really paying attention anymore since I did not expect it to work at that point but it was a different screen than I had seen before.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2015 at 8:25am
Clearing the CMOS seems to have fixed it again for now.


Posted By: drpaneas
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 2:27am
Hello guys,

I've just purchased mine, and after one week I have the exact same problem as you earlier mentioned. One way to fix the loooong POST is to disable the USB Legacy. But, if you do that, you can no longer go into BIOS (mouse and keyboard doesn't work). I've also checked *ALL* the possible combinations into USB bios settings but the Intel USB 3.0 ports are NOT working at all.

I've also sent an e-mail to ASRock waiting for a reply. This is ... lame.

PS: I've updated to the latest firmware. Nothing happened.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 12:36pm
I was too disgusted to post again after my last one because it happened again. Multiple times of clearing the CMOS until you get the initial setup screen will bring the Intel ports back. For some reason the ASMedia ports never have this problem, so you can use them until you get the fault cleared. 

I use Linux for my OS and I have this problem every time the bootloader updates. Every. Single. Time. This is my last ASRock board. I already have a replacement from a different brand. I need a stable, reliable machine and this is not cutting it.


Posted By: parsec
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 1:46pm
Just sayin', Linux is not supported, which is the response you would get from support, sorry to say.

You must know as a Linux-type user, you're on your own getting the things you use to work correctly. Zero mention of Linux in the Specifications, this and other ASRock boards are not marketed towards Linux users.

Mother boards are becoming less generic, at least with Intel processors and chipsets. The new Intel 100 series chipsets do not support Windows 7 100%, you must add the USB 3.0 drivers to the Windows 7 installation package.

Can you install Linux with an EFI bootloader? Disable CSM in the UEFI, or at least use the EFI Storage Option ROM? Either of these things will reduce POST time. That of course assumes Linux storage drivers can work with Intel EFI storage Option ROMs.

How does Linux interface with the Intel Management Engine firmware that is part of the UEFI?

If an Intel 9 series chipset (Z97) board is giving you grief with Linux, don't go to the new 100 series chipset boards, they will likely be even less cooperative.

Will a different board manufacture help? IMO, no.


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Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 4:30pm
Almost no one says they support Linux. So what. This is hardware. Yes, UEFI is supported in all distros that I know of. Linux is not the problem. It works great until you have to update. You just do that more often with Linux than other OS's. I suspect the other ones will have the same problem in that instance. Stop being a fanboi. This design sucks.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 4:44pm
I hate to respond to my own post post but wow did you completely miss the whole point of this thread. The USB ports stop working. Completely. Even before the OS is loaded. So how is that related to the OS smartguy?


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 4:57pm
I am sorry but I see no fanboism here. The simple fact is that you are using an unsupported OS that for whatever reason is conflicting with your hardware and causing an issue. It is not a hardware fault, if it were we would be seeing numerous other posts complaining about similar behavior in Windows. Linux is a crowd developed OS and does not offer the same degree of hardware compatibility as Windows. I can understand your frustration and desire to switch brands given the product you purchased is not living up to your expectations, that is fair enough but to say it is badly designed or defective is unfounded and inaccurate. Its like buying a car you plan to convert to LPG only to discover that that particular model is not compatible with the modification, it is hardly the manufacturers fault that a third party has not made a conversion kit for that particular model yet. Just because UEFI is supported by all distros does not mean there are no bugs. If you are an avid linux user you should already be well aware of this fact. Linux is not an install and forget OS and while it is a fantastic piece of software it is not without it's faults.

Before you fly off the handle and start accusing moderators of being fanbois try contacting tech support directly with your issue and see if they are able to help you. Even though linux is not a supported OS there may well be something that can be done, be it reverting to a previous BIOS version or some workaround. 

[edit] The OS effects the UEFI so yes, it can be OS related. Unlike the old simple BIOS system the UEFI is designed to interact with the OS. Now it may not be the OS but the only way to rule it out is to install Windows and check if the problem persists. Please cease the inflammatory comments, the people posting here have been trying to help you and do not deserve to be insulted for taking the time to reply to you.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 5:39pm
Thank you for responding. I'm not trying to insult the moderators. It's just that they (including you) are missing the point. It's not about Linux vs whatever. It works great when first installed. No issues at all. It's just that after any update to the kernel all the USB ports are dead. This requires a reset of the motherboard to factory defaults to reactivate them. Other OS's e.g. Windows, OSX, do not update the boot partition with the regularity that Linux does. 

There is no way a bootloader update should cause my USB ports to stop working without a fault of some kind. This is a defect and if done by design, a design flaw. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear that.

[edit] Just saw your edit. The only people who tried to help me were the noobs. You guys all blew me off.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 6:20pm
Lacking the understanding needed to help I saw no point in posting arbitrary non helpful advice. I am not familiar with the intricacies of how the linux kernl and boot loader operate and had nothing of use to offer. 

In your situation I would try and rule out hardware being the issue by doing as I stated, install windows and see if your ports fail there too. If that is the case then your particular board may have a defect or BIOS issue in which case an BIOS update or RMA would be warranted. Given the issue arises only when you perform an update it is fairly clear that Linux is making a change to the UEFI that is causing this problem. It may be enabling or disabling legacy USB support for example or any number of inaccessible, hidden controls within the UEFI that can only be set by the OS.  I think the misunderstanding here is stemming from the fact that you were not aware of how much the OS interacts with the UEFI. We understand what you are saying and are trying to provide info as to what we think may be the issue.

We sadly do not have any linux gurus here, or at least none that post regularly. You have to understand that this is not tech support, it is a support forum that is largely responded to by the community and on rare occasion a representative from ASRock's Tech department when there is a major update or common problem that they feel needs to be addressed, like the non-Z overclocking and windows 10 issues recently. This means that the advice shared is restricted to the knowledge base of the community. For dedicated Tech Support you should use the official support page to send a support request. The forums are a supplementary service that allows users to help each other out with common issues or non manufacturer based faults. Even the moderators here are community members, we are not in the employ of ASRock.

Given your issue is regarding how the OS is changing settings in the UEFI, Tech Support may well be able to help you as it is UEFI related. I can't say for certain but it is worth a shot.


  


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 7:10pm
Thanks for that reply. Really, I mean it.

It's not so much as Linux as GRUB which gets updated. But here's the thing, even if GRUB is doing something wrong, which it may be, why can't I fix it even inside the BIOS config? And why does it only affect the Intel USB hub and not he ASMedia one? Or more generally, why is only USB effected? This is the cause of the slow boot BTW. The ports are there but they never respond.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 7:38pm
Happy to try and help Wink

As I said in my last post, there are more functions available in the UEFI than are present in the UI. Many of these features are only accessible by the OS/bootloader and are not alterable by the user. All kinds of things are determined by the UEFI and many of these settings could damage the system if the user were able to access them and alter them. The issue in your case seems to be stemming from the intel USB controller that is built into the chipset. As it is chipset based it is far more intricately connected to the UEFI than the Asmedia controller which has its own separate IC. It has been a long time since I delved into the inner workings of the BIOS but if I had to guess, GRUB may be trying to alter a setting related to bootable USB devices. This change is obviously not working correctly with ASRock's UEFI, possibly due to outdated coding in the GRUB system or because compatibility for your board is not properly implemented. 

Once you clear CMOS after an update the system functions as it should until another update is required. This is a good thing as it means the issue is likely external, stemming from something GRUB is changing. It should be easy to test if it is GRUB causing the issue by setting a hidden UEFI flag incorrectly. Next time you perform an update and the issue occurs (it may not if the update includes a fix for the issue) try resetting to factory defaults within your UEFI. If this works then the problem is likely a setting you have missed as it will reset all user alterable values. If it does not work but clear CMOS does then you know for certain the GRUB is altering something you cannot access. Clear CMOS resets all data including hidden registers and variables. This is the reason both exist and the further battery removal method will additionally reset the Real Time Clock or RTC as it is usually referred to.

If this is the case then your best bet is posting your issue on your distro's user forums and seeing if anyone there can help you. You can try Tech Support here directly and they may be able to help you but bare in mind they are not obligated to do so given the issue stems from an unsupported OS. Generally though ASRock's tech support is very helpful and eager to resolve user issues whenever they can.

I hope this helps clarify how intricately connected the OS, bootloaders and UEFI are. 


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2016 at 7:45pm
What USB devices do you have plugged in?

Where plugged into?

USB 2.0 and or 3.0 devices acting this way?

Which ones?


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 3:14am
@wardog -- just a keyboard and mouse and it's all the Intel USB ports except for the socket on the board next to the power switch. There must be something special about that one.

@Xalter -- that's the clearest explanation yet. I don't need to reset the BIOS to factory defaults because I never change anything there but I tried that anyway Smile. It requires a CMOS reset to get the Intel ports working again. So it's not the hardware itself. At this point it *seems* to be a combination of GRUB setting something it shouldn't and ASRock UEFI letting it do something it shouldn't. Thank you. You've been very helpful.


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 3:42am
Glad to be of help, hopefully your distro will address the issue if they are made aware of it Wink


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 5:27am
As an experiment, plug a couple short, 2' - 4', shielded USB 3.0 extension cables in, separate the ends out distance wise, and connect the KB and mouse to the cables.

I've yet to see the RF/EMI that USB 3 emits actually do what you explain, yet it is thoroughly possible due to sensitivity.


Post back you findings please.





Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 6:27am
Thanks I will try that the next time it breaks. I never hurts to get more data.

I have everything working for now and I really don't want to intentionally cause a fault. My desktop is mounted inside a wooden cabinet so it's a real PITA to disassemble it and reset it. Besides I already know that if I run the GRUB installer (which happens every time there is a kernel update) this problem recurs. In fact, the last break was due to uninstalling an old kernel. So, it was the same exact kernel and just running  GRUB to remove an older unused one caused the fault. It's very repeatable but I don't want to repeat it again unless I have to. Only once of the five times this has happened was I able to *just* clear the CMOS and have everything work. The other times I've had to disconnect all the drives and remove my video card, clear it and then re-assemble it. Clearing the CMOS seems to be like driving a tack with a sledgehammer. This may explain some of my obvious frustration in earlier posts. If I have offended anyone, I am sorry.

I still don't know if GRUB is the culprit or merely the catalyst and I don't want to point fingers anyway. I'm just trying to get as much information out as I can. This is a real issue. Who's issue it belongs to is still open and to me irrelevant. I'm not a GRUB developer or a firmware engineer so who get's the workaround doesn't matter to me.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 7:09am
I'm thinking kernel changes and or that it's located in a wooden box are a catalyst that exaggerates/exasperates the RF/EMI.

As you imply, the mouse is the affected device. As might be expected, due to the great amount of info traveling along the mouses cable as you move it to and fro and click this and that, RF/EMI could very well be the interruption that begins your woes. The mouse would be more succeptable to this when compared to a keyboards simple instructions sent down the cable.

Does your KB have USB ports on it?

Are you using a USB hub somewhere?

Hardwired networking, or a USB Wi-Fi adapter/dongle?
A USB Wi-Fi adapter could be along the same lines, RF/EMI, considering it's in a wooden box!

Too bad you have these two plugged into the 3.0 ports instead of the usual 2.0 ports. You might maybe could have simply entered the BIOS to disable the 3.0 ports as a test.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 10:10am
lolwhat?

Dude if you think wood cages influence RFI you need to talk to Mr Faraday. Maybe if it was ironwood ...

I think you mean well but you're tilting at the wrong windmill here. I will try your experiment when it breaks again because why not, it's already broken.


Posted By: wardog
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2016 at 4:24pm
Mr Faraday doesn't have anything to do with this.

I base that conclusion on that it is in a too small enclosure for proper airflow. As you state it's a PITA to remove. While keeping everything neat and tidy it does nothing for air circulation and causes heat buildup. Let me guess, a rather smallish exit at the back for the cables?

I'll reiterate my point, "it's in a wooden box"


Posted By: jrnewell
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2016 at 9:04am
I have the Z97 Extreme 6 and triple boot Ubuntu, Windows and OS X.  I noticed this happening to me too when installing and occasionally upgrading my ubuntu distro - all of the sudden it would take a really long time to post and then my mouse and/or keyboard would stop working.  Seems to be something with this MB and linux because I don't see it with Windows and maybe only once or twice with OS X.

Often this is what I do to resolve it:  shutdown the computer and switch off the power supply.  Pull out all USB peripherals, and then press and hold the power button to completely discharge the M/B capacitors (should turn on for like a half a sec).  I then turn it all back on without the keyboard/mouse.  Sometimes this fixes it immediately or after a restart or two - no need to reset the CMOS.  Not sure if being able to boot into a non-linux OS helps my cause or not.  Hopefully this will help some of you recover quicker from this USB port issue.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2016 at 10:00am
Thanks I will try that. I also use ubuntu (technically kubuntu).

There was a kernel update today and also a grub&efi update but I have not rebooted yet. I'll wait till the weekend since I also use this machine for work. I can't afford to risk a several hour delay if I have to pull it apart again and reassemble it.

DIY OS X eh? Sounds interesting! My last laptop was OS X with Linux and Windows VMs but I never tried native dual/triple boot with it. Topic for another thread perhaps.


Posted By: jglynn43
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 6:42am
Well here it is Friday after work so I rebooted the machine. It failed again but thanks to the tip from jrnewell, Recovery was much faster. Still undecided if I want to put up with this annoyance with every kernel update. My other desktop with same OS, and hardware (except for the MB) has no problems at all. It's a shame. I really liked this one because it is so customizable. I'll wait a bit before dropping some coin since there's no rush with the mystery solved. Maybe I'll decide I can live with it.

Thanks to everyone that has helped!


Posted By: Xaltar
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 3:05pm
Linux distros take a while to catch up with new hardware generations. If it is simply a compatibility issue with linux then it will get sorted out eventually once hardware support catches up on the distro/s you use.



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