I have a X470 Taichi Ultimate on my testbench and can't clock Samsung OEM sticks with anything else than standard frequency.

Whenever I raise or lower memory frequency the Taichi won't post. It just sits there, spins the fans but doesn't begin memory training. Even the reset button is unresponsive. I gotta clear CMOS and switch off the PSU to make it bootable again.

Any suggestions?

EDIT:

are those that ECC 2133mhz 1.2v without any heatsink rams?

maybe raising voltage could help, but ull need some heatsink first before u start overclock

anyway u did forgot to mention part number for your ram(s)

Thanks for the reply kerberos_20!

These sticks are all standard Samsung OEM, non-ECC, non registered and without XMP profiles.

What I intended to use on this board are 2x16GB DR C-die (M378A2K43CB1-CRC). But they are locked on their standard frequency just as M378A1K43CB2-CRC and M378A1K43BB2-CRC are.

It doesn't matter if I put anything in place (vDIMM, vSOC, procODT, RZQ dividers and so on) - the Taichi won't post. Not even if I lower the clock multiplier to DDR4-1866 or anything else. It's not the memory training that fails. The system doesn't even start up. So no memory training, no post, just total unresponsiveness.

Why would I need heatsinks? On my C6H I can run those C-die @3466-16-19-19-1T @1.365v and the sticks barely get warm.

did u check with infrared camera? :P

anyway if that doesnt work in any way outside of spd settings (even lower frequency) which is kinda odd

u may want to add some dummy xmp profile to it in linux (windows wont let u do that, linux is very friendly :-) )

spd rom can be accessed from smbus with reserved adresses 0x50 - 0x57

I did not and the OEMs also don't come with temp sensors, but they are 100% stable and don't even need extra air cooling @3466. Those ICs are made for high frequencies and low voltages. They lack a bit in the timing department though.

Heatspreader are overrated anyways. I thought about removing the heatspreaders of a 4x8GB Kit once, because the sticks are so tight to each other, that the heat can hardly dissapate. This is even more so on the Taichi Ultimate. The slots are so close to each other that there is only 1mm of space between the modules. Removing the heatspreaders would certainly help with temps there.

Are you sure, that I can program the SPD of those sticks with an XMP Profile?

I believe the paid version of Thaiphoon Burner let's you reprogram SPDs in Windows. I'll dig around and see if I can find some information on the matter.

sure u can, spd rom is big enough these days

well thaiphoon may be more user friendly than linux way, but in linux is it for free

and whats more inmportant, if u brick your ram (bad spd flash) u can still reflash it later as grub allows u to block bad ram from being accessed by OS, so easy to fix later in case something bad happen

These are great advices kerberos. I would not have thought about programming an XMP profile for these sticks. Many thanks!

Since I am a total noob to either programming and Linux as well, you don't happen to have a tutorial at hand that could guide me through the process?

not at all, i found that by accident when i flashed edid to one of my rams on notebook xD

tho tutorials on how to flash edid under linux are there plenty and its basicaly the same stuff

just that edid uses bytes 0-127 on 0x50 adress while ddr3/4 dimms have 256 byte spd flash device on 0x50-0x57 adresses (different i2c ofc)

bytes 0-175 are for SPD

bytes 176-185 Global Parameters for Intel Extreme Memory used across all profiles

bytes 186-218 XMP profile 1

bytes 218-255 XMP profile 2

http://www.softnology.biz/pdf/Intel_XMP_Spec_Rev1.1.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.softnology.biz/pdf/Intel_XMP_Spec_Rev1.1.pdf

here u can get info on each byte

found also this

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-how-to-overclock-and-change-timings-for-any-ram-on-most-laptops.805589/" rel="nofollow - http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/guide-how-to-overclock-and-change-timings-for-any-ram-on-most-laptops.805589/

Thanks again, kerberos! Really great advice!

@gizmic

It's not. All the OEM sticks I tried worked fine right out of the box with standard settings (i.e. fastest JEDEC profile, e.g. 2400-17-17-17 for the C-die). When I change memory frequency and nothing else to e.g. DDR4-1866 the board won't post. There is no memory training taking place, which would determine if a RAM OC fails or not. The board just sits there, does absolutely nothing and is totally unresponsive. Don't confuse POST with boot.

It doesn't matter if I go high or low on memory frequency, raise voltages or alter the termination resistance - the board won't post in any case and I need to clear CMOS. Btw clearCMOS is the only button that keeps working. Power and reset buttons are unresponsive.

Regular retail sticks with XMP profiles do not force this behaviour. With those you have to select the XMP profile to unlock the clock multiplier and you are then free to OC with no issues (though the X470 Taichi Ultimate is a terrible overclocker when it comes to RAM).

The difference between the OEM sticks and the retail ones is that the OEMs don't come with an XMP profile. The clock multiplier is unlocked right from the beginning but changing it leads to the aforementioned issue.

This is clearly a bug and it was also present in the initial BIOS (1.20).

The board does boot when I change BCLK, but you don't want me to raise BCLK to 140 Mhz to get a decent OC, don't you?

I can change the timings and everything else for that matter and it does boot fine, but it again fails to post as soon as I touch the clock multiplier.

as for the bclk changes to 1mhz will just prove mem freq is changeable. 

i can make same symptoms fiddling around with rams no post power botton unresponsive. That would require clear cmos.

I do have experience with OEM & naked kits overclocks just fine heck even UTT's

Sure it does. XMP always comes with a memory frequency.

The memory frequency certainly is not a problem. These sticks can clock over 1000 MT/s higher on Ryzen and other retail kits with XMP present can be overclocked just fine on the Taichi.

It's the DRAM Frequency setting in conjunction with the non XMP sticks, that is somehow at fault here.

As I pointed out above the Taichi is handling XMP and non-XMP sticks differently. With XMP sticks the DRAM Frequency setting is locked until I select an XMP profile. With non-XMP sticks DRAM Frequency is unlocked right from the start. So for me the most obvious logical explanation is that something is at fault with the Taichi's handling of non-XMP sticks.

Of course it might be some general incompatibility with Samsung sticks, but I'd consider this a bug too.

But please tell me how this is supposed to be a failed overclock if I don't overclock at all?

You either don't understand the problem or are not able to read. So I try to make it as simple as I can:

I start with Fail Safe Settings (default settings) and with only the automatic JEDEC profile active, which is 2400-17-17-17 @1.2v for those C-die sticks. I then alter only DRAM Frequency and the issue is there. This happens with every frequency I select, be it DDR4-2800 or DDR4-1866 or any other.

Everything else I can manipulate at will but only as long as I remain at DDR4-2400. I can lower the timings to 12-12-12-12 no problem, I can raise the voltages no problem, change BCLK, set procODT and the Rtt dividers - it all boots up nicely as long as I don't touch those DDR4-2400.

This is the same with all OEM sticks I tested: 3 C-die DR kits, 1 SR C-die kit, 1 SR B-die kit

I'm glad that you don't have the same problem with Samsungs OEM sticks on your Taichi, but that doesn't change the fact, that it is not working on my end.

Perhaps you can point me to a solution instead of accusing me of bad overclocking.

and you should understand all kits dont run in the same timings or freq from the factory even if they are the same type of chips which is why you can see sammy dies ranging from 2400-4000+

as to point you in the right direction the fastest 16X2 gskill 3200 in the qvl list only runs at 2933 assuming these kits are C-dies

you could just set its XMP settings and see if it boots. If it doesn't it may need more voltage or simply look for a lower mem freq xmp in the qvl list and run those.

You really don't understand what I'm saying.

I do not want to use XMP settings. All I want to do is change the clock multiplier for my C-die sticks. And btw memory frequency = BCLK * DRAM clock multiplier, so yeah, the multiplier is in the XMP.

There are no retail kits, that come with C-die. Samsung is using these ICs exclusively on their own OEM sticks. I have 10 dual rank C-die sticks here and I know perfectly well what they are capable of and what timings they require, since I have tested them all extensively. On my C6H six of them do 3466-16-19-19-1T @1.365v in a 1DPC config (100% stable). Over the course of the last 14 months I've been through roundabout 60 different DDR4 kits. I know my way around when it comes to overclocking RAM on Ryzen.

So for the very last time: There is no OC in place. Changing the DRAM clock multiplier does not work for Samsung OEM sticks on my X470 Taichi Ultimate.

can you say that again please...................................

ok so have you considered using a program to flash a higher spd to the firmware

maybe its just a bug in bios not playing nicely with the spd being changed in bios

Oh, I see. Sorry!!

I'll prolly use the timings that I have already identified. They work for all C-die and also transfer well to different motherboards. Just tRFC I'll keep very relaxed, since the Taichi demands a whopping 70 ns more for the refresh cycle than my C6H with retail B-die.

on the side note I've hit the wall on my current kit on this mobo which can easily doing 4000+ on the blue team. 

I bought a Thaiphoon Burner licence and added an XMP profile with my C-die timings to the worst stick in my collection. Worked like a charm.

I can now select the XMP profile on the Taichi and in consequence clock that stick to whatever frequency I want an set the timings to my liking.

Btw, I made an observational error before. Although the Taichi did let me change and save the timings on the non-XMP sticks, the settings were not applied.

So in summary: If there is no XMP profile present on your DIMMs, the X470 Taichi Ultimate won't allow any form of overclocking besides raising the bus clock.

I'd like to find out, if this is true by design for all X470 Taichi Ultimates and perhaps for other ASRock motherboards as well or if this a bug, that only affects certain boards in particular constellations.

i think the main problem was in "asrock OC" selection of mem freq isnt available when there isn't an xmp profile 

should be changeable in amd cbs settings

You're wrong, it's there in plain sight in OC Tweaker. It just ends in a hard lock after selecting, saving and then restarting.

Also the timings can be changed and saved (still are set after reboot), but they never come into effect. Only the timings from the JEDEC profile are actually used.

There is an option for memory frequency in CBS.

It is to be found in Advanced/AMD CBS/UMC Common Options/DRAM Timing Configuration. Yet setting a frequency there doesn't stick. On saving and rebooting -> the setting reverts to AUTO (DDR4-2400 again), even when the cold reset method is used (like for CLDO_VDDP in NBIO Common Options). So this route is a dead end as well.

EDIT: I need you gizmic. You said that you have tampered with OEM sticks that don't come with XMP profiles on your X470 Taichi Ultimate and that they are overclockable. Can you without doubt confirm, that setting the DRAM multiplier and the timings works on your end with sticks like this?

Which ones did you test?

I ask because what I see on my board very much feels like a restriction by design and not like a bug.

EDIT2: I forgot to change OC Mode Change Switch from ASRock Setting to AMD CBS Setting. With the latter in place I get my usual hardlock upon changing memory frequency in AMD CBS.