Thanks to Asrock for solving a problem.

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Hello,

I have had a very bad experience with Asus motherboards. I would like to tell the tale ...

Decided to build a new computer. I am one of those who is a DIY, and enjoys it. So I purchased parts AFTER looking closely at all of the part(s) specifications.

The initial list of components :
    Motherboard      : Asus Crosshair V Formula Z
    CPU                   : AMD FX9590
    Power Supply     : EVGA supernova 1200P2 ( 1200 watt Platinum )
    Water Cooling    : Artic Liquid Freezer 240 ( 300 Watt Capacity )
    Memory             : Micron Crucial DDR3-1866 ECC ( 32Gg, 4 modules )

I put the system together when all the parts were present. First power up I updated the BIOS/UEFI to version 2201. Rebooted. Went into the BIOS/UEFI, set boot order, checked and set all CPU and memory ( voltage / timing ) settings to Auto. No Overclocking. CPU set to 4.7Ghz. Rebooted. Started to install Linux.

Thats when things started "going off the rails".

Had a strange snap / crackle / pop noise come from the case. Looked for the source, found nothing, no smoke either. Continued the install until I got to a good stopping place. Shut the system down. Unplugged the AC cord from the power supply. Looked again for anything odd in the case. Did not find anything. Plugged the AC cord back into the power supply.

When I turned on the computer, the Q-LEDs signaled CPU fault, and the computer refused to boot. Could not even get into the BIOS. Clearing the CMOS had no effect.

Did some web searching to see what could have gone wrong.

I discovered Asus had changed the specifications on the motherboard, without updating the BIOS/UEFI. Citation #1 is the motherboard manual. Unfortunately, I did not save a screenshot of the Asus web page. Citation #2 is the changed web page for specifications. Notice a slight difference in memory specifications?

After an RMA for the motherboard, to Asus, it was just sent back, no documentation of what was, or was not found wrong.

Purchased another AMD FX9590 CPU. I found an "Install Guide" written by AMD for FX9000 series processors ( on AMD's web site, Citation #8 ). Carefully followed directions. Replaced the memory with DDR3-1600 ECC from Micron Crucial ( 32Gg, 4 modules ). Turn on the computer, went into the BIOS/UEFI, set boot order, checked and set all CPU and memory ( voltage / timing ) settings to Auto. No Overclocking. CPU set to 4.7Ghz. Rebooted. Started to install Linux.

Had a strange snap / crackle / pop noise come from the case ( Again ). Looked for the source, found nothing, no smoke either ( Again ). Continued the install until I got to a good stopping place ( Again ). Shut the system down ( Again ). Unplugged the AC cord from the power supply ( Again ). Looked for anything odd in the case ( Again ). Did not find anything ( Again ). Plugged the AC cord back into the power supply ( Again ).

When I turned on the computer, the Q-LEDs signaled CPU fault, and the computer refused to boot ( Again ). Could not even get into the BIOS ( Again ). Clearing the CMOS had no effect ( Again ).

Did some searching ( web and otherwise ) to see what could have gone wrong ( Again ).

Went to download updated "Qualified Vendor List(s)" from Asus again. Citation #3. Got all three QVLs for comparison with user manual. Only ONE marked ECC memory test in all. Citation #4. Notice something about that memory listing ?

--------------------
ECC was only tested in ONE channel ( two modules MAX ). The QVL does NOT say 4 modules can be used. Only two modules.
--------------------

Soooo... Single channel ONLY ECC support from the Phenom & Phenom II CPUs was never fixed, just imported into the FX Series CPUs.

-------    Why was this not mentioned on Asus's specifications web page, the user manual install directions, or in the user manual specifications?

Searched further and noticed that all of the other AMD Certified Motherboards ( for FX9590 CPUs ) do NOT support ECC memory. Citation #5.

Then I found another trouble indicator ... Signs of DDR3-1600 on AMD having problems over at Asrock. Citation #6.

In the old Award BIOS an automatic DDR2 / DDR3 down-clocking safety worked. If both memory channels were used, the DDR2 / DDR3 frequency was dropped to the per. CPU appropriate standard. Citation #7. Often without noticeably telling the end-user.

-------    Is this AMI UEFI untested, bug ridden, and/or incomplete? Or is this a safety that was deliberately left out?

-------    Why was the information found in Citation #7 NOT available in the user manual, or on the Asus web site?

In the newer QVLs the DDR3-1866 / DDR3-1600 is all marked XMP. Huh? Does this mean in order to to run DDR3-1600 it must be set to XMP in the UEFI? Is this an undocumented fix for the missing DDR3 frequency down-clocking safety? Increasing timing (CL)/wait states to allow the use of 4 memory modules?

-------    If XMP memory profiles use is required, why is this information NOT present on the Asus web page for product specifications?

-------    If XMP memory profiles use is required, why is this information NOT present in an updated user manual?

-------    Why as an Asus customer, did I have to learn about this, in the first place, by digging through the Asrock web site?

Which leads me to wonder about how Asus came up with the QVLs ...
The three possibilities for the QVL testing process are as follows ...

    #1 : Tested ALL configurations. ( In that case they fried a lot of CPUs. Would have been highly documented in some form. Never happened. )

    #2 : Targeted testing aimed at XMP / AMP memory profiles only. ( Likely, in hindsight. No updated user manual though.)

    #3 : The test was less than 5 seconds, and only for a few "known good" memory modules. ( Possible, and a BAD QA process! )

-------    Personal Opinion : The correct choice seems to be either #2 or #3.

The last big question :

-------    Why as an Asus customer, am I required to BUY and FRY an unlimited number of CPUs to discover what you will NOT document?

The tale ends with a $750 total loss ( ruined computer parts = 2 CPUs and a motherboard ). Micron Crucial was VERY gracious in allowing a refund for the memory.

Asrock gained a customer. ( the replacement motherboard, to be exact. )

Asus, you lost more than a customer. You lost an advocate as well.

Citations
--------------------
#1 Citation Reference :

Motherboard User Guide E8049 Specifications by Asus ( page x )

4 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR3 2400(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz ECC, Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory
Dual Channel Memory Architecture 

--------------------
#2 Citation Reference :

Asus Web Page Crosshair V Formula Z Specifications
https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/CROSSHAIR_V_FORMULAZ/specifications/

4 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR3 2400(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1600/1333/1066 MHz ECC, Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory
Dual Channel Memory Architecture 

--------------------
#3 Citation Reference :

Qualified Vendor Lists Downloaded :
C5F-Z_DRAM_QVL_201406.pdf
C5F-Z_DRAM_QVL_0909.pdf
Crosshair_v_formula-z-memory-QVL.pdf

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/CROSSHAIR_V_FORMULAZ/HelpDesk_QVL/

--------------------
#4 Citation Reference :

Quote from Motherboard User Guide E8049 QVL by Asus ( page 1-18 )

DDR3-1333 ACTICA ACT1GHU72C8G133S 1GB SS SAMSUNG K4B1G0846F(ECC) DIMM Socket Support 2

--------------------
#5 Citation Reference :

AMD FX??9000 Series Processor System Requirements
http://support.amd.com/en-us/search/faq/295#

--------------------
#6 Citation Reference :

Asrock Web Page 990FX Extreme9 Specifications
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/990FX%20Extreme9/?cat=Specifications

--------------------
#7 Citation Reference :

DDR3 Memory Frequency Guide
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/ddr3memoryfrequencyguide.aspx

--------------------
#8 Citation Reference :

AMD FX-9000 Installation Guide ( PDF )
http://www.amd.com/Documents/FX-9000-Installation-Guide.pdf

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assemblerhead Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 14 Apr 2016 Location: Texas, USA Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote assemblerhead Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Thanks to Asrock for solving a problem. Posted: 14 Apr 2016 at 12:37am
	[ Note to Moderator : if posted in wrong forum, please move to the correct forum. Thanks ] Hello, I have had a very bad experience with Asus motherboards. I would like to tell the tale ... Decided to build a new computer. I am one of those who is a DIY, and enjoys it. So I purchased parts AFTER looking closely at all of the part(s) specifications. The initial list of components : Motherboard : Asus Crosshair V Formula Z CPU : AMD FX9590 Power Supply : EVGA supernova 1200P2 ( 1200 watt Platinum ) Water Cooling : Artic Liquid Freezer 240 ( 300 Watt Capacity ) Memory : Micron Crucial DDR3-1866 ECC ( 32Gg, 4 modules ) I put the system together when all the parts were present. First power up I updated the BIOS/UEFI to version 2201. Rebooted. Went into the BIOS/UEFI, set boot order, checked and set all CPU and memory ( voltage / timing ) settings to Auto. No Overclocking. CPU set to 4.7Ghz. Rebooted. Started to install Linux. Thats when things started "going off the rails". Had a strange snap / crackle / pop noise come from the case. Looked for the source, found nothing, no smoke either. Continued the install until I got to a good stopping place. Shut the system down. Unplugged the AC cord from the power supply. Looked again for anything odd in the case. Did not find anything. Plugged the AC cord back into the power supply. When I turned on the computer, the Q-LEDs signaled CPU fault, and the computer refused to boot. Could not even get into the BIOS. Clearing the CMOS had no effect. Did some web searching to see what could have gone wrong. I discovered Asus had changed the specifications on the motherboard, without updating the BIOS/UEFI. Citation #1 is the motherboard manual. Unfortunately, I did not save a screenshot of the Asus web page. Citation #2 is the changed web page for specifications. Notice a slight difference in memory specifications? After an RMA for the motherboard, to Asus, it was just sent back, no documentation of what was, or was not found wrong. Purchased another AMD FX9590 CPU. I found an "Install Guide" written by AMD for FX9000 series processors ( on AMD's web site, Citation #8 ). Carefully followed directions. Replaced the memory with DDR3-1600 ECC from Micron Crucial ( 32Gg, 4 modules ). Turn on the computer, went into the BIOS/UEFI, set boot order, checked and set all CPU and memory ( voltage / timing ) settings to Auto. No Overclocking. CPU set to 4.7Ghz. Rebooted. Started to install Linux. Had a strange snap / crackle / pop noise come from the case ( Again ). Looked for the source, found nothing, no smoke either ( Again ). Continued the install until I got to a good stopping place ( Again ). Shut the system down ( Again ). Unplugged the AC cord from the power supply ( Again ). Looked for anything odd in the case ( Again ). Did not find anything ( Again ). Plugged the AC cord back into the power supply ( Again ). When I turned on the computer, the Q-LEDs signaled CPU fault, and the computer refused to boot ( Again ). Could not even get into the BIOS ( Again ). Clearing the CMOS had no effect ( Again ). Did some searching ( web and otherwise ) to see what could have gone wrong ( Again ). Went to download updated "Qualified Vendor List(s)" from Asus again. Citation #3. Got all three QVLs for comparison with user manual. Only ONE marked ECC memory test in all. Citation #4. Notice something about that memory listing ? -------------------- ECC was only tested in ONE channel ( two modules MAX ). The QVL does NOT say 4 modules can be used. Only two modules. -------------------- Soooo... Single channel ONLY ECC support from the Phenom & Phenom II CPUs was never fixed, just imported into the FX Series CPUs. ------- Why was this not mentioned on Asus's specifications web page, the user manual install directions, or in the user manual specifications? Searched further and noticed that all of the other AMD Certified Motherboards ( for FX9590 CPUs ) do NOT support ECC memory. Citation #5. Then I found another trouble indicator ... Signs of DDR3-1600 on AMD having problems over at Asrock. Citation #6. In the old Award BIOS an automatic DDR2 / DDR3 down-clocking safety worked. If both memory channels were used, the DDR2 / DDR3 frequency was dropped to the per. CPU appropriate standard. Citation #7. Often without noticeably telling the end-user. ------- Is this AMI UEFI untested, bug ridden, and/or incomplete? Or is this a safety that was deliberately left out? ------- Why was the information found in Citation #7 NOT available in the user manual, or on the Asus web site? In the newer QVLs the DDR3-1866 / DDR3-1600 is all marked XMP. Huh? Does this mean in order to to run DDR3-1600 it must be set to XMP in the UEFI? Is this an undocumented fix for the missing DDR3 frequency down-clocking safety? Increasing timing (CL)/wait states to allow the use of 4 memory modules? ------- If XMP memory profiles use is required, why is this information NOT present on the Asus web page for product specifications? ------- If XMP memory profiles use is required, why is this information NOT present in an updated user manual? ------- Why as an Asus customer, did I have to learn about this, in the first place, by digging through the Asrock web site? Which leads me to wonder about how Asus came up with the QVLs ... The three possibilities for the QVL testing process are as follows ... #1 : Tested ALL configurations. ( In that case they fried a lot of CPUs. Would have been highly documented in some form. Never happened. ) #2 : Targeted testing aimed at XMP / AMP memory profiles only. ( Likely, in hindsight. No updated user manual though.) #3 : The test was less than 5 seconds, and only for a few "known good" memory modules. ( Possible, and a BAD QA process! ) ------- Personal Opinion : The correct choice seems to be either #2 or #3. The last big question : ------- Why as an Asus customer, am I required to BUY and FRY an unlimited number of CPUs to discover what you will NOT document? The tale ends with a $750 total loss ( ruined computer parts = 2 CPUs and a motherboard ). Micron Crucial was VERY gracious in allowing a refund for the memory. Asrock gained a customer. ( the replacement motherboard, to be exact. ) Asus, you lost more than a customer. You lost an advocate as well. Citations -------------------- #1 Citation Reference : Motherboard User Guide E8049 Specifications by Asus ( page x ) 4 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR3 2400(O.C.)/2133(O.C.)/1866/1600/1333/1066 MHz ECC, Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory Dual Channel Memory Architecture -------------------- #2 Citation Reference : Asus Web Page Crosshair V Formula Z Specifications https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/CROSSHAIR_V_FORMULAZ/specifications/ 4 x DIMM, Max. 32GB, DDR3 2400(O.C.)/2000(O.C.)/1600/1333/1066 MHz ECC, Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory Dual Channel Memory Architecture -------------------- #3 Citation Reference : Qualified Vendor Lists Downloaded : C5F-Z_DRAM_QVL_201406.pdf C5F-Z_DRAM_QVL_0909.pdf Crosshair_v_formula-z-memory-QVL.pdf https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/CROSSHAIR_V_FORMULAZ/HelpDesk_QVL/ -------------------- #4 Citation Reference : Quote from Motherboard User Guide E8049 QVL by Asus ( page 1-18 ) DDR3-1333 ACTICA ACT1GHU72C8G133S 1GB SS SAMSUNG K4B1G0846F(ECC) DIMM Socket Support 2 -------------------- #5 Citation Reference : AMD FX??9000 Series Processor System Requirements http://support.amd.com/en-us/search/faq/295# -------------------- #6 Citation Reference : Asrock Web Page 990FX Extreme9 Specifications http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/990FX%20Extreme9/?cat=Specifications -------------------- #7 Citation Reference : DDR3 Memory Frequency Guide http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/ddr3memoryfrequencyguide.aspx -------------------- #8 Citation Reference : AMD FX-9000 Installation Guide ( PDF ) http://www.amd.com/Documents/FX-9000-Installation-Guide.pdf

parsec Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 04 May 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4996	Post Options Post Reply Quote parsec Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:49am
	Wow, that is quite a story! I'm sorry you ruined two CPUs using the Asus board. Did you test those CPUs in other boards or somehow to verify their destruction? I'm wondering, you said ASRock gained a customer after your experience, does that mean your ASRock board worked fine for you the first time? No problems with it as you unfortunately had in the past? The popping and crackling sound is usually caused by the thermal pads used for the VRM chips, instead of TIM between them and the heat sink. In your case the CPU was destroyed, but the VRM seemed fine? Of course you never knew after the RMA you did. I must say that the specifications supplied by AMD for their processors are rather poor. How you could even come to a conclusion about the support for ECC memory from the AMD specs, I don't know. Perhaps because no mention of support for ECC memory? Intel has a specific line about ECC support for many of their processors, for example: http://ark.intel.com/products/82932/Intel-Core-i7-5820K-Processor-15M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz The installation documentation from AMD is rather poor IMO. One thing that is critical that is included is the need for a fan with a minimum of 35 CFM capacity being mounted by the CPU VRM heatsink. That is a tremendous requirement when using a liquid CPU cooler, as required for a FX-9590 processor. I did that on my FX-9590 build, using a board of semi-questionable support for the 9590, an ASRock 970 Performance/3.1. I had a fan blowing air directly on the VRM heatsink. I had more difficulty with the CPU temperature than the VRM temperature, the latter was fine. I quit on Asus due to a small issue compared to yours, their cheating on the CPU temperature reading for an Intel mother board, via a UEFI/BIOS update. I figured if they could cheat on that so blatantly without an explanation, what else were they doing? Now I know, thanks to you. At least something good came from your experience.


assemblerhead Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 14 Apr 2016 Location: Texas, USA Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote assemblerhead Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 May 2016 at 5:42am
	--------- Tested both CPUs in the new Asrock board, memory controllers were "dead". --------- According to Asus and AMD, that processor supports ECC. They don't ever mention that it is only single channel though. --------- I purchased an Asrock 990FX Extreme6 as the replacement. The memory ( 32 Gb of DDR3-2133 / Micron Crucial ) worked just fine. Asrock had the UEFI properly setup to load the CORRECT memory info ( i.e. SPD ... XPM 1.3 profile ). Very happy with this board. Using an Arctic Liquid Freezer 240 on the CPU. ( AMD FX-9590 CPU ) Not overclocking it though. Haven't yet caught the CPU temp over 98 F. The case is open with a large utility fan blowing directly into the system. Learned that lesson the hard way. Have an old K6-3 that got "heat sensitized" ( won't boot until the Tyan MB gets warn enough. ) Beware the AMD warranty. They don't really honor it. The "approved/supported components list" is regularly changed and NOT openly posted. You have to make a warranty claim to get a single copy. Which quickly goes out of date. Asus warranty service leaves you wondering if the defective you sent was ever checked. They give you NO INFO AT ALL. Just ship it back.