X99 Extreme4 does not detect Samsung Pro 950 M.2

tom wrote: Hi guys,   Just a success report: - X99 extreme 4 - samsung 950 pro 512 (nvme) - latest bios (3.30) installed I installed QubesOS 3.1 flawlessly - installer was able to see the nvme drive and use it, MB boot manager displayed both 'Samsung 950 Pro' and EFI boot entry for Qubes on the Samsung. Samsung drive has option ROM and seems able to boot even MBR - in fact I did not disable CSM. http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/minisite/SSD/downloads/document/Samsung_SSD_950_PRO_White_paper.pdf

Thanks for posting the link to the Samsung white paper about the 950 Pro, and how to configure a board's UEFI to use it as an OS drive. Samsung actually did what I was complaining about, documenting how to configure a UEFI booting OS installation.

Nothing new in the document regarding UEFI booting, at least from my perspective.

It's a shame Samsung has this document available on their business support download page, but not on their consumer support download page. It would really help if it was available in the consumer support section, but I suppose Samsung believes very few consumer 950 users will read it. I can't say they are completely wrong about that.

I must say that I disagree that a 950 Pro will boot from an MBR/legacy partition, although I agree that it seems that it does, given what you wrote about not disabling CSM, and your 950 Pro booting fine.

I recently tried setting CSM to Enabled, to see if a UEFI booting Win 10 installation would boot with an NVMe SSD using an MBR partition. The Windows installation program will put both a GPT and MBR partition on an OS drive when the UEFI/BIOS is configured for a UEFI booting installation. That is done to allow certain Windows tools that require an MBR partition to work with UEFI booting installations. If you do a UEFI booting installation on a standard SATA drive, you can switch between MBR and GPT booting by changing the CSM option. I did not think this would work with an NVMe drive, it should require to use the GPT partition.

I tested this on an Intel 750 NVMe SSD, and it did boot normally, but I noticed during POST the usual indication of a UEFI boot. That is, the screen resolution of the ASRock splash screen was in the higher resolution mode (appearing smaller on the monitor) of a UEFI/GPT boot. Another indication of this is the choices in the Boot order list. UEFI/GPT booting installations will always be "Windows Boot Manager" minimally, or that followed by the drive name. Also possible is the prefix "UEFI" followed by the drive name. MBR/Legacy booting entries in the Boot order will be the prefix "AHCI" or "RAID" followed by the drive name, or just the drive name will appear.

I believe I know what is happening.

When we install a UEFI version for our boards that have NVMe support, that support now includes the automatic configuration (behind the scenes) of the CSM option when an NVMe SSD is used as the OS drive. Manual configuration of CSM still works, but the automatic configuration makes things much easier for those users that are not familiar with UEFI booting. This brings us back to NVMe SSDs being plug and play devices, which was not the case at first. So instead of the CSM configuration needing to be done when installing an OS on an NVMe SSD, and resetting CSM after a UEFI clear or update, it is now transparent to the user.

Nice, but we don't learn anything, IMO.




Edited by parsec - 11 May 2016 at 3:05pm

I'm also using the X99 Extreme4, and I just got a 256gb Samsung 950 Pro. I may not be following the instructions correctly, but I just updated to ASRock's 3.3 BIOS, and I can't see the device in UEFI, under the M.2 storage list, nor in Windows 10 Drive Manager, and when I install the Samsung NVME Driver, it reports; "Samsung NVM Express Device is not connected. Connect the Device and try again."

Edited by MortarArt - 11 May 2016 at 11:49am

parsec wrote: Do you have at least UEFI version 1.80, or better, version 2.10 installed on your board? DON'T install the latest, 3.30, yet... please... Both 1.80 and 2.10 add NVMe support, and it looks like version 2.10 improved NVMe support. When you installed Windows on your 950, did you have any other drives connected to the PC and powered up? I have two 950 Pros, and I think I had one in my X99 Extreme6/3.1 board (I move drives so much, I can barely remember what I've done sometimes) and it worked fine. I have an Intel 750 NVMe SSD as the OS drive in that board now, works fine. I agree that dropping a 950 like you did would not seem to cause any damage. The darn thing's weight is fewer grams than in one ounce, a fraction of an ounce. I know you are using a video card, as is required in every X99 PC. Is your 950 under a video card, the video card in the PCIE1 slot? Have you ever monitored the temperature of your 950? They run warm, and if they get too hot, they will throttle their speed/performance. If you don't care about Secure Boot, you can disable it, as long as you have CSM disabled. On some boards the only way to disable CSM is to enable Secure Boot. That's why some guides tell you to enable Secure Boot, but that is the only reason they do that. Sorry for the semi-rant (semi-rant??) I wrote last time. It just bothers me that the NVMe SSD manufactures don't provide any guidance about using them as OS drives.

parsec wrote: GODenergy wrote: ITKosta829 wrote: OK i kinda figured it out myself and got windows 8.1 installed after i disabled CSM and disabled my sata controllers temporarily. this video helped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ct8pQcIg I still want to know why the M.2 Drive isnt detected in BIOS... Ugh, well I just installed my Samsung 950 Pro 256GB into my ASROCK X99 Extreme4 aswell. It was NOT detected in the BIOS under storage but however was in the "BOOT OPTIONS" for some reason. Of course, when I booted off my USB external CD/DVD drive and launched Windows 8, it was NOT detected there either. I followed the instructions off that youtube video and managed to atleast install Windows 8 on the M.2 Samsung 950 using the USB Windows 8 UEFI per the video and disabling the CSM option in BIOS and deleting the boot keys. The m.2 samsung 950 is still not showing up in BIOS though. I even installed the Samsung 950 PRO driver off the samsung website, but that seem to do literally nothing ( what does it even do?) Can anyone explain why does CSM need to be disabled and what does deleting the secure boot keys do? I had some buggy stuff too happen where I went to power down the PC after installing Windows 8 on the M.2 drive and the screen went black and never powered down. And upon booting up i had some visual glitches (LAN icon got duplciated bottom left): http://i.imgur.com/PrhS0Tz.jpg Why does CSM need to be disabled? That takes some explanation. The main reason is, disabling CSM will cause Windows to use the EFI Boot Loader instead of the Legacy Boot loader. This is also called UEFI or EFI Booting. Use of the EFI Boot Loader is required in order for a PCIe NVMe SSD to be able to be an OS drive. If you want more technical explanation than that, I could do so but it won't make much difference in understanding all this. We have been spoiled for a long time now with plug and play storage drives. NVMe SSDs are not plug and play storage drives, particularly when used as OS drives. Deleting the Secure Boot keys in general is not related to disabling CSM, unless a board's UEFI has the two connected for some reason. I have never done anything with Secure Boot or secure boot keys on my ASRock boards to configure UEFI booting, never deleted a key or created one. Enabling the Secure Boot option (that uses the keys) has a side affect of disabling CSM, since Secure Boot only works with the EFI Boot Loader. I suppose a UEFI that does not have the CSM option available (older boards) would force you to enable Secure Boot so CSM will be disabled automatically. As I said above, NVMe is a different storage and interface protocol than SATA. We can't expect a device that has a different interface to be listed with SATA devices. USB flash drives are not SATA devices, do we see those listed in the Storage Configuration screen? Where do we see USB flash drives listed in the UEFI/BIOS? Only two places, in the Boot Order, and in the System Browser tool. Yes, the M.2 ports are listed in the SATA Storage Configuration screen. But SATA M.2 SSDs exist, Samsung makes M.2 850 EVO equivalent SSDs. Intel also makes SATA M.2 SSDs, as well as Crucial, Plextor, and others. If you used one, it would be listed in the SATA Storage Configuration screen. If you did not have an NVMe storage driver installed, you could not use your NVMe SSD. Same thing is true for a SATA driver and SATA SSD or HDD. Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 have a built in NVMe driver. So if you don't install the Samsung NVMe driver with the Install Driver option in a Windows Custom installation, the Windows NVMe driver is used. Samsung does not provide the typical "F6" type driver files with their NVMe driver, used for the Install Driver option. Intel has their own NVMe driver, and includes the "F6" drivers. Windows provides standard SATA IDE and AHCI drivers, which are installed automatically if we don't install one ourselves. Believe me, if ANY of these drivers did not exist, we would not be using these drives, SATA or NVMe. You said the NVMe driver seems to do nothing. What does a SATA driver do? I understand the frustration of things not being the same when using NVMe SSDs. But consider this, does Samsung (for example) provide any information about how their NMVe SSDs must be installed, and how they will interact with a board's UEFI/BIOS? Do they provide any information about the Windows installation configuration needed to make these drives able to boot an OS? The answer to both of those questions is a simple NO, they don't. Samsung has a guide to installing their NMVe driver, but it all does is walk you through the driver installation prompts. In other words, worthless. Does Microsoft have a guide to installing NVMe SSDs on their products? I've never found one. I learned about it by studying UEFI booting a few years ago. I picked up a piece of information here and there, that when put together, works. I have a guide to installing Windows on PCIe SSDs as a sticky in this forum. Yes, you can use UEFI booting with SATA SSDs, and it is the only way I install Windows if I can (AMD... OMG get with it ) By coincidence, UEFI booting is required for using an NVMe SSD as an OS drive. There are other reasons for using UEFI booting, but that is another topic. Intel is no better in providing a guide than Samsung and Microsoft. So then what happens? Who gets to deal with it? Mother board manufactures, that don't manufacture NVMe SSDs. You may then say, where is a guide from ASRock on this topic? So a mother board manufacture is then responsible to provide a guide for two products (NVMe SSD and OS software) that they neither manufacture or sell, while the manufactures of those two products themselves do not provide that information? Plug and play means very little or nothing to deal with when using a device. Again, NVMe SSDs are not plug and play devices. No one told you that? Me too!

GODenergy wrote: ITKosta829 wrote: OK i kinda figured it out myself and got windows 8.1 installed after i disabled CSM and disabled my sata controllers temporarily. this video helped: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No-ct8pQcIg I still want to know why the M.2 Drive isnt detected in BIOS... Ugh, well I just installed my Samsung 950 Pro 256GB into my ASROCK X99 Extreme4 aswell. It was NOT detected in the BIOS under storage but however was in the "BOOT OPTIONS" for some reason. Of course, when I booted off my USB external CD/DVD drive and launched Windows 8, it was NOT detected there either. I followed the instructions off that youtube video and managed to atleast install Windows 8 on the M.2 Samsung 950 using the USB Windows 8 UEFI per the video and disabling the CSM option in BIOS and deleting the boot keys. The m.2 samsung 950 is still not showing up in BIOS though. I even installed the Samsung 950 PRO driver off the samsung website, but that seem to do literally nothing ( what does it even do?) Can anyone explain why does CSM need to be disabled and what does deleting the secure boot keys do? I had some buggy stuff too happen where I went to power down the PC after installing Windows 8 on the M.2 drive and the screen went black and never powered down. And upon booting up i had some visual glitches (LAN icon got duplciated bottom left): http://i.imgur.com/PrhS0Tz.jpg

Why does CSM need to be disabled? That takes some explanation.

The main reason is, disabling CSM will cause Windows to use the EFI Boot Loader instead of the Legacy Boot loader. This is also called UEFI or EFI Booting. Use of the EFI Boot Loader is required in order for a PCIe NVMe SSD to be able to be an OS drive. If you want more technical explanation than that, I could do so but it won't make much difference in understanding all this.

We have been spoiled for a long time now with plug and play storage drives. NVMe SSDs are not plug and play storage drives, particularly when used as OS drives.

Deleting the Secure Boot keys in general is not related to disabling CSM, unless a board's UEFI has the two connected for some reason. I have never done anything with Secure Boot or secure boot keys on my ASRock boards to configure UEFI booting, never deleted a key or created one. Enabling the Secure Boot option (that uses the keys) has a side affect of disabling CSM, since Secure Boot only works with the EFI Boot Loader. I suppose a UEFI that does not have the CSM option available (older boards) would force you to enable Secure Boot so CSM will be disabled automatically.

As I said above, NVMe is a different storage and interface protocol than SATA. We can't expect a device that has a different interface to be listed with SATA devices. USB flash drives are not SATA devices, do we see those listed in the Storage Configuration screen? Where do we see USB flash drives listed in the UEFI/BIOS? Only two places, in the Boot Order, and in the System Browser tool.

Yes, the M.2 ports are listed in the SATA Storage Configuration screen. But SATA M.2 SSDs exist, Samsung makes M.2 850 EVO equivalent SSDs. Intel also makes SATA M.2 SSDs, as well as Crucial, Plextor, and others. If you used one, it would be listed in the SATA Storage Configuration screen.

If you did not have an NVMe storage driver installed, you could not use your NVMe SSD. Same thing is true for a SATA driver and SATA SSD or HDD. Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 have a built in NVMe driver. So if you don't install the Samsung NVMe driver with the Install Driver option in a Windows Custom installation, the Windows NVMe driver is used. Samsung does not provide the typical "F6" type driver files with their NVMe driver, used for the Install Driver option. Intel has their own NVMe driver, and includes the "F6" drivers.

Windows provides standard SATA IDE and AHCI drivers, which are installed automatically if we don't install one ourselves. Believe me, if ANY of these drivers did not exist, we would not be using these drives, SATA or NVMe. You said the NVMe driver seems to do nothing. What does a SATA driver do?

I understand the frustration of things not being the same when using NVMe SSDs. But consider this, does Samsung (for example) provide any information about how their NMVe SSDs must be installed, and how they will interact with a board's UEFI/BIOS? Do they provide any information about the Windows installation configuration needed to make these drives able to boot an OS?

The answer to both of those questions is a simple NO, they don't. Samsung has a guide to installing their NMVe driver, but it all does is walk you through the driver installation prompts. In other words, worthless.

Does Microsoft have a guide to installing NVMe SSDs on their products? I've never found one. I learned about it by studying UEFI booting a few years ago. I picked up a piece of information here and there, that when put together, works. I have a guide to installing Windows on PCIe SSDs as a sticky in this forum.

Yes, you can use UEFI booting with SATA SSDs, and it is the only way I install Windows if I can (AMD... OMG get with it ) By coincidence, UEFI booting is required for using an NVMe SSD as an OS drive. There are other reasons for using UEFI booting, but that is another topic.

Intel is no better in providing a guide than Samsung and Microsoft.

So then what happens? Who gets to deal with it? Mother board manufactures, that don't manufacture NVMe SSDs.

You may then say, where is a guide from ASRock on this topic? So a mother board manufacture is then responsible to provide a guide for two products (NVMe SSD and OS software) that they neither manufacture or sell, while the manufactures of those two products themselves do not provide that information?

Plug and play means very little or nothing to deal with when using a device. Again, NVMe SSDs are not plug and play devices. No one told you that? Me too!