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Z170 OC Forumla 6 GPU detection on Windows 10 |
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parsec 
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 Topic: Z170 OC Forumla 6 GPU detection on Windows 10Posted: 18 Sep 2016 at 2:22am |
That is the problem, there isn't a TOLUD option in your board's UEFI, or most if not all boards of this type. You lost me on this: "The bios only allows for dynamic, 2.5, or 3.5". What option is that, in the BIOS? If you haven't tried Dynamic yet, try it. Dynamic usually means the amount of space is adjusted to allow what is required to work correctly, providing more when necessary. Changing TOLUD to a lower value in theory allows for a larger PEG memory space. But if you read that document, you'll see we may not really have control over how much memory will be given to the PEG memory space. |
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whiplashtony
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Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 1:07pm |
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Thank you! Yes, I'll keep reading about TOLUD, I think we agree that's probably the issue.
The bios only allows for dynamic, 2.5, or 3.5. I have it set to 3.5 at the moment, and it's working with 5 cards. I'm not quite sure how as that is over 16G of RAM ... I think my memory screenshot makes more sense now. The standby memory is over 11G ram so 2.5 x 4 - and no idea on the other card. I'm also not quite sure why my resource monitor for memory looks more like yours now - https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mfb1nkn88sdu18/Screenshot%202016-09-17%2000.04.45.png?dl=0. Almost 12G free. If I set it to dynamic, then Windows will recognize all the cards, up to 6 - but will not allocate resources. So how can I set TOLUD, if I can't do so in the BIOS? I noticed this TOLUD setting wasn't even mentioned or in the screenshots for book that came with the motherboard. I guess I'll stick with 5, and start researching a board correctly about PCIE lanes before I go on any buying sprees. Thanks again for all the help.
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parsec
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Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 10:01am |
Changing TOLUD can increase the amount of memory available for use in the "PCI Express Configuration Space". That area appears to be 256MB usually, but not guaranteed. TOLUD must be decreased, not increased, to potentially increase the amount of memory available for "PEG addresses", more on that below. I thought for a moment that this DRAM memory area may not be your problem, but I'm not sure. Here's what my memory looks like in Resource Monitor:  We both have 16GB of memory. Compare your amounts of Standby and Free to mine. My Free: 13405MB. Your Free: 328MB. My Standby: 792MB. Your Standby: 11123MB. I know, why is it like this? I don't have an answer for you. Your current TOLUD setting may be doing this, set that back to the default ASAP! This is a more complex subject that is not something we usually deal with. Very simplified, there is DRAM memory reserved for the OS to deal with PEG addresses, where PEG is PCI Express Graphics attached. If there are too many PEG addresses to deal with in the DRAM memory reserved for that purpose, that is an out of resources condition. If you want to read about this, go to page 23, section 2.3.3, of this document. A good picture of this is on page 24. Don't expect it to be easy: http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/datasheets/3rd-gen-core-desktop-vol-2-datasheet.pdf |
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whiplashtony
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Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 5:02am |
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So I tried flashing to the latest BIOS and I tried playing with the TOLUD setting some more with 64 G of RAM.
Nothing worked. I searched the entire interweb web and couldn't find anyone else experiencing this issue except for one guy - https://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/5137/issues-with-mobo-asus-z170-pro-gaming-cant-detect-6-gpus. Username "karthunk" - Looks like the same issue. I'm still unclear what TOLUD is doing exactly. Why would the OS need to reserve RAM relative to the Video RAM - are they not independent? I've accepted defeated. |
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whiplashtony
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Posted: 17 Sep 2016 at 2:20am |
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Thanks again for the response. I haven't built a PC in over 10 years. These issues are frustrating, and it helps to have a discussion - to potentially resolve it, or for my sanity.
That was a typo, yes MAX VLOUD is set to 3.5. The only settings available are "dynamic, 3.5, and 2.5". When dynamic is set - I can only get 3 cards to be usable in system devices, with the other 3 giving the Windows error message "can't free enough resources". With the setting at 3.5, or 2.5 I can get 5 cards fully recognized and mining. Here is a screenshot of memory usage - https://www.dropbox.com/s/vxu6ql45c2zwu5f/Screenshot%202016-09-16%2012.29.57.png?dl=0 Obviously the issue has something to do with the MAX VLOUD setting. All of the cards are using 1x to 16x powered usb risers. Everything "should" be using 1x, and I specifically set the available PCIE setting for the lanes the bios give me control over (1,4,6) to 1st gen pcie. As for 2, 3, and 5 - I can't confirm exactly but if you search the configuration file I posted previously on drop box ( https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjfvjztjgp1jqtq/6gpuasrockconfig.txt?dl=0 ) and do a search for "link width" - I pretty sure of the "presence detect = yes" entries it indicates they are set to 1x. The physical riser connections are 1x but I'm unsure if the issue was due to what's actually being reserved for lanes. Or even if turning off HD audio, 3rd party usb, the wifi pcie slot etc actually frees up lanes. I do understand it's a tall order. A server mother board isn't a solution for this application - they are usually much more in price and defeat the purpose of mining vs cost. I was hoping this board would be a good balance with resale, or if I want to use it for a PC down the line. It's future proof for a lot of consumer needs. I'll keep whacking at it. It's just a hobby of mine. From what I can gather, it's clear the VLOUD setting has limited the actual use of memory in the cards to 4 (3.5 I'm assuming), instead of 8. It clearly has an effect on whether it boots or not. Regardless of the setting (MAX VLOUD 2.5 or 3.5) as soon at the 6th card is connected the board immediately goes to error 55 - It will not even let me get into the bios. The only way to get it back up is a CMOS reset, and deal with the settings all over again. Perhaps it's related to 8 cards with 8 gigs of RAM. When dynamic is set, that's why it will boot to windows but give the "no free resources errors for the other cards). 3 x 8 = 24 G - but I only have 16 G of RAM installed for the board. I tried contacting support via their forumla drive application - no response via email, 3 days ago, and the support tab is completely missing now from their drive app - https://www.dropbox.com/s/jcwr5oy76hq7bl3/Screenshot%202016-09-16%2012.52.08.png?dl=0. My next available trouble shooting steps. * Upgrade the BIOS from stock. I tried to flash it from the latest I downloaded - the board locks up the screen after it detects it from the USB. I can't even select it to run. Basically it detects it, give menu option to install it - but I can't do anything, completely freezes - lose mouse and keyboard functionality. * I will try 64 G of system memory. I have some in another PC I can try. * I can try another operating system. I might try a linux flavor for mining. * Get a different board confirmed to work with 6 cards (should have done this first). Cheers! |
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parsec
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Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 10:28pm |
The "MAX VLOUD" setting is really Max TOLUD, or something like that, I can never recall the term. The setting adjusts the amount of DRAM memory set aside for the OS to use with expansion cards, such as video cards. Your problem most likely is related to this, since that is a common issue for mining PCs when using more than four video cards. The resources Windows is complaining about should be the amount of DRAM memory it needs to deal with all your cards. If you open Windows Resource Monitor, and click the Memory tab, you might find you have no Standby memory available. How much memory do you have in this board? Is that a setting in the UEFI, I can't find it in your board's manual. Since this is a mining PC, your video cards are running at x1, correct? If so, then you should not be out of the 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes your CPU provides. You need to confirm this for us. You are also using the two PCIe x1 slots, which are provided by the board's chipset. The four PCIe x16 slots are connected to the CPU. You are using the CPU's integrated graphics for your monitor, correct? Can you increase the "Max VLOUD" value, or set it to Auto? That is the usual fix for this problem. |
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Xaltar
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Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 4:08pm |
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5 GPUs seems to be the golden number from what I have seen. You are not the first here to have trouble getting 6 to work. The problem isn't simply the PCIe lanes but also system resources as a whole. This is an issue you will have to take up with Tech Support directly. As I recall the last few similar instances of the issue you are facing either were unresolved or required a BIOS update.
Given the instance where a BIOS update resolved the issue, that was a high end socket 2011 board with a PLX chip paired with a Xeon. Server class boards/systems tend to have more resources available and better allocation protocols. The Z170 OC formula is a consumer grade product, it is certainly the top tier of consumer grade products but ultimately falls short of true enthusiast/enterprise grade products both in features and cost. 6 GPUs is a tall ask for any consumer grade hardware. If you look around online the common number is 5 and even then people had to jump through hoops to get it all working. Now, if you look at server class boards (Socket 2011) you see the number increase to as many as 10. Now I am not saying it is impossible but I do find it highly unlikely. Tech Support should have a more definitive answer for you and I believe they love problems like yours, they tend to be rather challenging/exciting to work with. Good luck to you.
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whiplashtony
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Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 3:42pm |
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You are welcome to review the configuration here. Thanks for any help or suggestions. |
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whiplashtony
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Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 3:08pm |
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They are all amd cards - sapphire rx 470 8 g nitros
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wardog
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Posted: 16 Sep 2016 at 2:47pm |
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nVidia cards, last I knew, won't run at x4 in SLI and I'm not sure you can overcome that obstacle BIOS wise either.
No Plex chip onboard hampers options if they're nVidia cards. One or two Plex chips would give you freedom over that BIOS limitation using that many nVidia cards if that's what you're working with. |
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whiplashtony wrote: