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Guidance on Selection of Intel 270 Board |
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theBitz 
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Joined: 17 Apr 2017 Location: Pennsylvania Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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 Topic: Guidance on Selection of Intel 270 BoardPosted: 27 Apr 2017 at 12:01am |
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wardog and parsec: Appreciate all your efforts to educate and I believe you, and much study on my part, achieved that goal and I have purchase my "build" just now. I intend to be very careful in the assembly and am optimistic that all will go well. Very much looking forward to a new much faster computer.
Ed |
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theBitz
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Posted: 21 Apr 2017 at 5:12am |
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My level was zero several months ago relative to dealing with the creation of an operating PC from parts, but has been raised to maybe 5 on a scale of 1 to 10; the product of studying manuals and reading forum threads by very knowable builders like you that have so willing shared their knowledge. I was trained as a research metallurgist and have the credentials, which mean nothing, but spent a career in research, development and finally, and for most of my years, in a specialty alloy manufacturing plant - troubleshooting. I am also very stubborn and technical detail does not bother me, but admit I am not driven to become a master hard core builder, just to build one which could be my last, but then again I did say I was stubborn.
As for your specific questions about my experience, I have negligible knowledge of the UEFI/BIOS interface other than struggling to remember what function key or combo got me there over the years to make changes in boot order or properly identify new hard drives when installed. Back in the 90's I install in a K thru 9 public school, at the request of a friend that taught there, 60 PCs along with the necessary network. No, I had no prior experience with networking, routers or switches but I survived. We lost 30% of the WD hard drives the first year until I learned to not have them turn off at night - which meant I did a lot of Windows installs but never to an external. I have never installed driver software for hardware used on a motherboard except for the that associated with an upgrade of video cards or modems. Hopefully related tech experience in numerous other areas will make up for my lack of experience here - does knowing a lot about overload protection on a 3 HP, 220V table saw and 2 1/2 HP thickness planer of any value :) - recent problems in our community wood shop? Sorry about the inadequate description of the PSU - a product of suspecting a lot of the lengthy descriptions were unnecessary to those in the field - wrong again. I increased the wattage to a EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G2 220-G2-0660-Y1 80+ GOLD 650W Fully Modular EVGA ECO Mode Includes FREE Power On Self Tester Power ...Model #:220-G2-0650-Y1 Item #:N82E16817438054. I picked this over a Corsair SF650. Both are fully modular which appealed and I selected based on a couple of reviews, but know that there is much bad information out there. I upgraded the power based on wardog's suggestion. I did find the source of the 380W estimate he offered for my board and chased down his reference for another calculation and found that calculation even less, but there is enough experience out there to indicate more is better. I do understand the "heat" concern but am comfortable with the case which does have provision for additional fans. I realize "going with" the cooling fan accompanying the processor may be a mistake but easily remedied once I start monitoring temperature especially if I get into gaming. I certainly have no fear in my capability to assemble, admittedly with only experience is replacing hard drives, upgrading video cards, adding modems and memory. Figuring out where all the wires go looks to be the most difficult. However what you point out and what I knew when I started this adventure was that configuring and loading the OS to boot from SSD was going to be the toughest problem. I almost gave up and purchased a Dell Alienware Aurora, an upgrade which had that feature as delivered, until I found your thread on this board "How to Install Windows on a PCIe SSD" which details that procedure. I admit to not understanding the why's behind the detail but judged, from my own experience writing tech procedures, that it was written by a very knowledge builder. I have tried to explore reading the manual for the board and have found all screens mentioned, but with great difficulty trying to handle mentally the menu hierarchy. I know that will be a lot easier once I have the software on my screen. I do hope you see a glimmer of hope in my taking on this task. Yes, at 84 the body is getting tired, but the mind is not and I need a challenge. I do think, however, I will buy from Newegg what they describe as Windows 10 Home - Full Version (32 & 64-bit)USB Flash Drive for the $30 premium just for insurance. The details for making your own are numerous, and worse varied, so that is one task I have decided not to learn - hope that does not disqualify me in your eyes. Ed |
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parsec
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Joined: 04 May 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 4996 |
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Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 10:28am |
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Since I don't know about your level of expertise dealing with the creation of an operating PC from parts, I'll try not to be too technical, but that is unavoidable. Given that, I don't know if you appreciate the difficulty of the task you are taking on.
The problem with attempting to explain things to a new builder is the level of complexity of the concepts involved. Installing Windows on an NVMe SSD like the 960 EVO is a perfect example of that. I could go on for pages and provide only a semi-complete description of the "whys" things are done. A deep understanding is not necessary to perform the process. Even though I'll be skipping details and including some that you may not understand, the bottom line is really all that you need. I'll include terminology and concepts even in my abrupt explanation that you may not understand. Labeling yourself as a new builder may not adequately describe your level of experience working with things like a mother board's UEFI/BIOS user interface, which I must discuss and you must now use. Have you ever done that with any PC's you've owned? Have you ever installed Windows from an installation disk, to a storage drive? Have you ever installed driver software for the hardware on, and the hardware used with a mother board? Yes I use USB flash drives to install Windows. Have I ever purchased a Microsoft Windows 10 USB installation media? No, nor have I ever used one. I never said in my guide that anyone should purchase the Microsoft USB installation media. I create my own Windows installation media using a blank USB flash drive purchased by itself, and a Windows 10 ISO file, downloaded from Microsoft using their Windows 10 Media Creation Tool. I then use a Windows 10 license key provided with a Windows 10 OEM installation disk to activate Windows 10. I'm not suggesting you do it his way, but just as an example of how it can be done. Does any of this make any sense to you? Sorry, simply asking as I have no idea of the extent of your experience in these things. Instead of a full description of what needs to be done, I'll go with one example of what you'll be dealing with just starting to install Windows 10. This is a bottom line instruction about using any Windows 10 installation media, disk or USB flash drive, with an NVMe SSD like a 960 EVO: In the UEFI/BIOS user interface, Boot screen, in the Boot Order option, you must select the correct entry for the Windows 10 installation media, which will look like this: "UEFI: <windows installation media device name>", where installation media device name is the name of the optical disk drive containing the Windows 10 disk, or bootable USB flash drive with the Windows 10 ISO image. Is that something you could do, and does it make at least some sense? I'd really like to know before I proceed with you. I'm not concerned with the hardware you have chosen, it is fine for your uses, but I am concerned about you ability to work with it. That is simply based upon my ignorance of your experience with working with PCs at the hardware level. To clear up something that was started earlier, and never answered: VRM is an acronym for Voltage Regulator Module. That is a major component of any mother board. It creates the voltage/power for the CPU, from the PC's 12V power supply line. The VRM "stage" or "section" is composed of multiple transistors, inductors, capacitors, and one or more control chips. When over clocking a processor, the strength of the VRM stage is more important than if you don't. An over clocked processor uses more power (Watts) than one that isn't, so the VRM stage must be more robust in order to withstand the extra stress of higher power delivery. Since you are not over clocking your CPU, you simply need a board with a decent VRM stage. The board you selected is fine in that regard, since it can be used for mild over clocking. It is more than adequate for your i5-7500. A "decent... VRM" just means not the likes found on very cheap mother boards. From your description of the PC's usage and possible future update plans, you aren't missing anything important. Personally, I am more concerned with you being able to complete a working PC. Purchasing the hardware is just the first step. I'm having trouble tracking down the EVGA power supplies you listed, the model numbers seem incomplete. A Google search on those numbers returns nothing specific. An example of a full model name is, EVGA SuperNOVA 650 G1 120-G1-0650-XR 80+. The differences in whatever two models you listed could be in their efficiency of power conversion. Prices are not necessarily logical in determining what is newer, older, better, etc. One comment about something you wrote, you will need more fans for a PC used for gaming. Not immediately to get the PC running, but most likely in the near future. The two provided with your PC case will not adequately ventilate it during long gaming sessions. Also, "quiet" PC cases somewhat sacrifice cooling ability for quietness, quiet and great cooling are conflicting compromises. Most people that just use a pre-built PC don't know it is operating much hotter than necessary, although additional cooling may buy you nothing except longevity of the components. Keep in mind you are talking with hard core PC builders here, and what will be completely fine for most people will never be good enough for us. |
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theBitz
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Posted: 20 Apr 2017 at 8:08am |
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Please do not abandon me, you have helped me get so close to ordering but raised some concerns with my proposed build that I would like to put to bed. I understand the suggestion to go with a bit more power so have increased from 550 to 650W. My proposed build is now Right now favoring a ASRiock H270M Pro4 LGA 115 Micro ATX Motherboard That said the suggestion has been made that I change from the micro to a full ATX Board and my question is why as I see no future need for more PSI Express slots, M.2 NVNE slots, more fan or USB headers. The one SSD is extremely important but all I need is one M2.NVMe slot; but, I am a novice and may be missing something important. I can live without wireless on the board with this new computer hardwired (Ethernet) to my router. I did check and the fans in the case are three pin but designed to control speed on the second pin and the board indicates it can handle either three or four pins and control as necessary. I will not be over clocking, understand there is no value in faster DDR4 memory, certainly will never need more storage drives. Lastly I will have to install windows 10 on the SS and Parsec recommended in a paper on another thread that I should purchase a USB bootable copy rather than the typical CD. Should I even question - cost another $30. I really would appreciate your helping me put to bed and order.
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theBitz
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Posted: 18 Apr 2017 at 12:16am |
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parsec, had read some weeks ago the thread "How to Install Windows on a PCle SSD" and the detail contained convinced me to buy an Asrock board. Just now realized it is parsec that is now helping me on my build. You recommend in those detailed instructions that a USB bootable version of Windows 10 be used rather than the CD. Cost is only about $30 more to buy so no big deal but the techie in me always wonders why and would appreciate your expanding on that recommendation. I know I am rambling a bit but have the thread almost memorized so not missing all suggestions offered. |
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theBitz
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Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 8:51pm |
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Appreciate Wardog, did not appreciate I was marginal at 550W. There two EVGA SuperNOVA Gold, a G2-0650-Y180 and a G2-0650-XR8, at same price. Have not identified the difference that might be important to me. As for the full size board, The ASRock H270 Pro4 is a full size vs my original choice of the H270M . It has more slots although as explained I see no upgrades in the future except for a better video card if I got into gaming heavily.
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wardog
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Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 8:12pm |
Too, I'd spend some on a beefier PSU in the 600w-700w range, as your current choice of the RX 460 eats at 380w as the min req w for it. If and when you went to a more watt hungry card you would more than likely also at that time need a beefier PSU to power it. Well, depending, but still ......... IMO it's cheaper to begin with a beefier quality PSU rather than down the road during a time of need. An advantage of of a beefier PSU than needed is it works less and stays cooler while doing so. I commonly refer to the PSU as the foundation of any computer. Anything built upon a weak foundation will cause issues sooner, rather than later. Link to GPUs and their minimum PSU requirements: http://www.realhardtechx.com/index_archivos/Page362.htm |
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theBitz
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Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:31am |
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My brief reply was after reading only Wardog's reply - Parsec's response was while I was typing. I am unfamiliar with this board so hope the thread does not get too confused. So not sure why Wardog suggests a full ATX board. Now Parsec introduces a myriad of points to consider. There will never be over clocking in my future. My ears have already faded, which may confuse you when you see I chose a "insulated" case, but background noise drives my hearing aids bananas - so the quality of the audio is not a factor. The memory chosen is Corsair Vengeance LPS 16BG DDR4 2133 (PC4 17000) and a friend made that selection. I somewhat understand the lane limitation and do not see a second SSD or need for a second HD. If and when I become a gamer :) which I suspect, I might see myself upgrading the video card but am sure could get along with using a single card. I do intent to hard wire this new computer to my router with my old Dell and wife's iPad both wireless. If for some reason I needed WIFI a dongle would do. Hope I have covered what I am hardly expert at but trying hard. Appreciate your help.
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theBitz
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Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:15am |
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Appreciate if you would be more specific and suggest one and what are VRMs? The H270 Pro4 (without the M) is full ATX, the next I see is a Z270 and I am sure there will never be any overclocking in my future, but as I pointed I know my needs but am not fully aware of the merits of all the features that are specified. The case I have selected, a Corsair Carbide 100R Silent Edition can handle either size.
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parsec
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Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 10:08am |
About over clocking, which you said you won't do, but you would need an Intel 'K' model processor as well as a Z270 board in order to over clock the CPU. Your non-K i5-7500 CPU cannot be over clocked on any Z270 board. Do you care about the quality of the audio source of the board? More expensive boards have better audio chips. Be careful about the DDR4 memory you purchase, it must be compatible with your processor and board. The Memory QVL list is the best place to find compatible memory. Also notice you cannot over clock the memory speed with an H270 chipset board. Don't bother spending the extra money on DDR4 memory with speeds above 2400 unless you use a Z270 board, and care about high memory speeds. Any missing features you might need depend upon what you'll be doing with the PC. Such as if you need to use eight storage drives, you'll need more SATA ports and/or more M.2 slots. We cannot know what features you might use, so it's difficult to provide suggestions about features. You already understand the features needed to use an NVMe SSD as the OS drive. If you wanted to use two or three M.2 SSDs, or a SATA M.2 SSD, you would need to check if the board has the necessary number of M.2 connections, and supports both M.2 NVMe and SATA SSDs. Do not assume something is supported, always check the specifications. If you wanted to use more than one video card, you would need more PCIe 3.0 x16 slots that are not only of that physical size (x16), but also are each connected to at least eight (x8) PCIe 3.0 lanes from the CPU. The H270M Pro4 does not provide those PCIe 3.0 lane connections. It is fine for a single video card. Everything you mentioned is basic from a feature standpoint currently. Do you need a wireless network connection, or will you be using a wired network connection? You mentioned adding fans, and the board's fan speed control (were you referring to a program called Speed Fan?) Fans use two types of speed control, PWM with four pin connectors, and varying DC voltage, with three pin connectors. Using three pin connector fans on some four pin fan mother board fan headers will not allow their speed to be controlled. You must be careful to match your fan types to the board's fan headers if you want the UEFI/BIOS to control fan speeds. Edited by parsec - 17 Apr 2017 at 10:18am |
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theBitz wrote: