X370 Killer SLI/AC Voltage jumping all over

nycalex wrote: wardog wrote: nycalex wrote: however, i only have 2 options for vcore offset, it's either auto (then voltages really jump high) or a set number starting with +60mv. this is the reason i went with +60mv. This confused me. Are you aware you can override Offset and Fixed (milli)voltage by typing in an appropriate and within limits value? there's no option to type in an amount. it's a drop down menu. so it's either AUTO or +65, +130, +200, +250, +325, +400, -50 and -100mv i'm currently testing stability with -50

Phew!

I thought you were implying having no optional choices. Drop-downs ........

Thanks for clarifying that for us.

with offset at -50mv = no post at all.

man, i forgot how convenient having a clear cmos button or having dual bios was!

i haven't touched jumpers in years.

anyhow, cleared cmos and now back to 1.325 + 65mv offset.

I also suggest using HWiNFO64 in general over any other monitoring program. The author goes out of his way to accommodate every different mother board, CPU/chipset platform, sensor chips, you name it.

I forgot to answer a question you asked earlier, about using +60mv.

Millivolt, or mv, is 1/1000 of a volt, or 0.001V. That is just one millivolt.

Your setting of +60mv is equal to 0.060V. That is 60/1000 of a volt, or 6/100 of a volt.

Denroth wrote: So what is the difference between the voltage below the frequency value (in the Bios) and the lower one in the external cpu voltage? on hwinfo Voltage 1: vcore Voltage 2 (external voltage): CPU core voltage (SVI2 TFN)

Good question, I am not 100% certain about what HWiNFO64 is displaying for each of those values.

I'll give you my opinion, but first a question for you, do you get anything in HWiNFO64 that has an entry like:

ASRock X370 Killer SLI/ac (IRF IR35204)

With several lines below it with temperature, voltage, and power readings?

I do, that is the CPU VRM readings from the sensor chip.

Back to HWiNFO64, the CPU (SVI2 TFN) voltage matches the CPU VRM voltage output reading. The maximum voltage for the VCore and CPU (SVI2 TFN) voltage matches what I have set the VCore to be in the UEFI, off by 0.001V +/-, within the error and resolution for each reading.

When any or all of the power saving features I mentioned previously are active, the VCore will drop at low CPU load conditions. Since I don't mind the CPU voltage dropping, I have those feature enabled, and I see the VCore drop to very low values. But each reading in HWiNFO64 for or related to VCore will be different at the low levels. The CPU VRM (and CPU (SVI2 TFN) ) output only goes down to just under 1.0V, while the VCore will go below 0.400V. So these two readings are a bit complicated. But what I just described is not really what your concern really is.

You seem to want a rock solid, unchanging VCore while stress testing. Is that even possible? Or even something that is desirable? A little VCore VDroop is known to occur, and is considered normal.

How much variation do you get in the VCore? Do you know that CPU stress tests are not 100% constant with their loads. They change to different instruction being executed during a run, and switch between testing the integer and floating point arithmetic processing sections of the CPU too. So while the CPU "load" may always read 100%, different things are being tested at different times.

So the VCore can and will vary because some things require more VCore than others. Intel had a big controversy with the new AVX2 instructions in their processors, that when being executed cause a huge increase in the VCore compared to anything else.

Are you having failures during stress testing the CPU?

parsec wrote: Have you tried using the Fixed Voltage setting, instead of Offset?

yes, i set it at 1.325.

however, i only have 2 options for vcore offset, it's either auto (then voltages really jump high) or a set number starting with +60mv. this is the reason i went with +60mv.

parsec wrote: Did you notice with the UEFI version that gives you the LLC option, that is sets LLC to 1 by default? That is the greatest LLC correction, providing the least voltage droop. Did you notice any difference between the VCore variation between having the LLC option, and without it?

no, since i did not go into windows with bios 2.3. i wanted to update to agesa 1.0.0.6.

parsec wrote: Is the Ryzen Master voltage reading constant at 1.325V?

yes sir

parsec wrote: Monitoring programs do not read the VCore continuously, like an analog volt meter. They take a reading, a sample voltage at whatever polling rate programed into the software. For example, HWiNFO64's Polling Frequency is 2000ms, which is 2 seconds. So it reads the VCore and all other readings every two seconds. The polling rate can be set to a different frequency by the user. You can find that setting in the Config window, General tab. Next, the polling rate of each monitoring program is not guaranteed to be the same. Even if it is the same, there is no guarantee that each program is reading the VCore at the same time. If they do try to read the VCore at the same time, that is when problems happen, and the readings are bad. There is an instruction that can be used by monitoring programs (IF they use it) to wait to take a reading if another program is currently reading data. But with all these variables and unknowns, and the simultaneous read problem, that is why using multiple monitoring programs at the same time does not work. Another question is what is the monitoring program reading for the "VCore"? Is it the VCore VID or the true VCore, which can be two different things. VID is what the processor cores request using their internal programmed tables. The true VCore is what is actually used by the processor. The two may be identical, but the VID will always be the higher of the two readings. They could be equal but the true VCore is usually at least a bit lower than the VID. Programs like Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility show the VID, which I know from experience using it. Ryzen Master also looks like it shows the VID, but I don't have as much experience with it. Any non-VID VCore reading is not a voltage reading that is simply translated from binary to decimal. It is data in a certain format that must be translated into the VCore value. This data is not necessarily the same for every processor generation/architecture. That's why we sometimes see crazy high VCore values like the 2.7V you saw from HWMonitor. Guess what your 1.325V VCore setting is multiplied by two and rounded up to one decimal place? It's 2.7V. HWMonitor is applying the wrong translation to the VCore data. CPU-Z version 1.79 made the same mistake. Version 1.79.1 fixed it.

very informative, thank you for the detailed explanation.

parsec wrote: Do you have all the CPU power saving options disabled in the UEFI/BIOS? Are you using the Windows High Performance Power Plan, or configured whatever power plan you use to have the Minimum Processor State set to 100%? If all of those things are not set that way, the VCore can change. Processors are designed to try to shift into a lower power usage state, and all these options enable them to do that. Lower power usage normally includes a lower VCore.

all cpu power saving ooptions are off on bios and i did set high performance in windows. i want constant 3.9ghz on cpu to test stability. once i determine my desired overclock and voltage, i torture test the system for a couple of hours to make sure it is stable.

parsec wrote: We assume the VCore reading is exact, but it isn't. The difference between 1.28V and 1.36V is 0.08V, 8/100 of a volt. Do we even know if the entire VCore monitoring chain, from monitoring chip to the software dealing with it, has that degree of accuracy? We like to believe it is, but that is faith. Ever see any specs about that? Just making the point. Checking our VCore is more complex and difficult than we want to believe, and in reality is rarely exact at any time. That's why Intel uses the VID, and most likely Ryzen Master too. Ryzen's VID is most likely closer to the true VCore than Intel's VID, given what I have seen.

thank you for the explanation.

phew, that took a while to read and understand throughly.

i appreciate the effort you took into answering my concerns.

now, i have been gaming heavily on this system for the past couple of days. so far i don't see any crazy jumps in cpu temperature, but i still do see jumps in voltages.

i'm going to give hwinfo64 a try as was suggested by some members here.

i'll report back with results.

So what is the difference between the voltage below the frequency value (in the Bios) and the lower one in the external cpu voltage?

on hwinfo
Voltage 1: vcore
Voltage 2 (external voltage): CPU core voltage (SVI2 TFN)


Edited by Denroth - 25 Jun 2017 at 2:02am