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x399 taichi fails to boot with "33 d3 Ad A2 21 12"
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    Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 11:30pm
I thought I'd post an update.

I opened the second board. On first CPU install (doing nothing any differently to the other times I installed the cpu on the original board) it worked fine. I even re-seated it a couple of times, all with no issues with the A2 slot.

I then went back to the first board and had the A2 slot issue after re-seating the CPU yet again, then it went away again after re-seating it another time again! 

ASRock were concerned about a pin on the socket that was reflecting light a little differently in the photos, but after a lot more detailed photos they decided it probably wasn't a problem. In the end due to the issues with re-seating it (that weren't happening in Board 2) they said to RMA it. I was convinced enough by the difference in behaviour between the two boards that this was the right call.


Edited by soniqboom - 30 Jan 2018 at 11:31pm
X399 Taichi (BIOS 2.00), 1950X at default, F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR
(full parts list)
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kerberos_20 View Drop Down
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as for those "de ad and few others" loop
i can reproduce it too when i put too high timings on RRD
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Summary: re-seated CPU; all RAM now recognised; runs fine at 3200 (stable under prime95); but reboots intermittently when pc is idle.

ASRock support response

ASRock support got back to me - my ticket contained all of the information I've posted here and nothing else of note. Their response was really good, imho. In summary:

1. Regarding the initial symptoms they said:

Quote
This looks like a faulty CPU (which is where the memory controller is integrated) or a faulty motherboard.

Please remove the CPU from the socket carefully. In clear light check the socket for bent or broken pins. Make sure there is no thermal paste on any socket pin or CPU contact. If there is any problem with a socket pin then please let me know. 

If the socket looks okay then if possible borrow another CPU to test with, or try to test your CPU and slot A2/A1 in another motherboard. Maybe your supplier or a computer shop can help with that. 

If the CPU is okay (or if there is no way to test it) then please contact the motherboard seller for warranty/RMA.

2. Regarding the Dr debug codes:

Quote
The debug code sequence "33 DE AD A2" looking like "EE dead A2" really is just a (remarkable) coincidence as far as I know.

3. Regarding HWinfo reporting the memory clock as 1,065.6 MHz

Quote
[This] is not that strange. 1066 MHz = DDR4-2133. This is the default DRAM frequency, maximizing compatibility with different modules. Once the system is detecting all modules reliably you can try loading the XMP profile in BIOS (if your RAM modules offer this) and set the DRAM frequency manually in BIOS. Start with loading the XMP profile, then set the DRAM frequency to DDR4-2400. If that is working fine then try DDR4-2666 , 2933 and 3200.

I think most of this confirms what we'd already said.

What I did next:

1. Removed cooler and took photos of the TIM
2. Unclipped CPU retention frame and rail frame, kept CPU in the frames. 
3. Inspected and photographed the socket, pins and the cpu contact surface. 

Some TIM had bled out of the sides (tiny, tiny amounts), but certainly hadn't made it into the socket or onto the contact surface underneath the CPU. One pin reflected light strangely on the photos, but didn't look bent to the eye, I intended to check that again but ran out of time.

So here's the weird thing:

I was running out of time so I clipped the CPU back in, screwed it down using the torque wrench, fixed and screwed in the cooler and reassembled the board in the case to keep it safe for the night. The next morning I booted it without thinking. I did nothing different to the original install except I didn't clean the cooler and put new TIM on, I used the old stuff. 

You can see where this is going ...

1. All the memory is now reported as usable in windows
2. When I then (a) reset the CMOS; (b) rebooted into UEFI and then set it to XMP Profile 1, selecting 3200 memory speed it (c) booted into windows, and (d) passed prime95 on both blend and then small FFT for 1 hour each. 

Temperatures in p95 Blend as reported by HWInfo (ambient is 23 C) are no more than:

1. TDie: 34 C above ambient after running for an hour (2 C when idle)
2. RAM (DIMM 1, 3, 5, 7 respectively): 19, 17, 21, 28 above ambient (3, 3, 5, 9 C when idle).
3. Motherboard: 6 C above ambient (1 C when idle).

Temperatures are more than a little anecdotal as the fans aren't just running at 100% all the time, there is a fan profile which adjust fan speed based on TCtl and mobo temperatures.

Here's the problem though:

It isn't stable. It is stable under p95 but if it sits idle it intermittently reboots. This sometimes happens 65 seconds after showing the windows login screen, without me touching anything, and sometimes doesn't happen before I've done other stuff and rebooted deliberately. It only happens when the PC is idle and doing nothing (i.e. I've stepped away).

I've also noticed that before it reboots the USB mouse and keybard become unresponsive. I've only noticed this before some reboots, other times it reboots without me using them so I don't know if it happened or not. Also sometimes they become unresponsive and it doesn't reboot for a while so I have to reset it myself. This unresponsiveness also happens in the UEFI screen as well as in windows.

(Mouse and keyboard are plugged into the USB ports closes to the flashback button on the back of the board).

What next?

So now I'm stumped. 

1. Is it a bad board and/or a bad CPU? 
2. Are they ok and the CPU is still seated badly (how is that even possible given the physical engineering of the TR4 slot, the orange carrier frame, the clip to fix into the rails, the blue clips to hold it down, and the provided torque wrench)? 
3. Is it seated properly and this is now something else entirely?

And what, therefore, should I do next (I have a second board sitting here now but would rather refund it than use it if at all possible)? None/some/all of:

1. Re-seat the CPU again?
2. Remove the CPU again, check the pins yet again and report back to ASRock?
3. Fiddle with voltages and see if the RAM stabilises when the PC is idle (which voltages would this be)?
4. Try the second board (which will cost me, so I want to avoid it if possible)?
5. RMA this board?




Edited by soniqboom - 25 Jan 2018 at 12:31am
X399 Taichi (BIOS 2.00), 1950X at default, F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR
(full parts list)
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Originally posted by soniqboom soniqboom wrote:

I have a replacement x399 Taichi board ordered for tomorrow so I will try and remember to update here once I've switched everything over to the new board.


Please do.
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Thanks much, soniqboom.  Best and enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

soniqboom, it sounds like you have a bad memory socket and I doubt that can be fixed with a settings change. I had a pair of bad sockets on my X370 board and had to RMA.  

I think that's the conclusion I've come to. I have reported it as DOA and stared the refund process.

Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

Wanted to make sure you were not OCing.

Nope. Not yet at least!

Thanks for all the help. I have a replacement x399 Taichi board ordered for tomorrow so I will try and remember to update here once I've switched everything over to the new board.
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soniqboom, it sounds like you have a bad memory socket and I doubt that can be fixed with a settings change.  I had a pair of bad sockets on my X370 board and had to RMA.  Wanted to make sure you were not OCing.  I would suggest running all Default settings until some confidence is gained in the system - perhaps a few days at least.  Enjoy, John.
Fat1 X399 Pro Gaming, TR 1950X, RAID0 3xSamsung SSD 960 EVO, G.SKILL FlareX F4-3200C14Q-32GFX, Win 10 x64 Pro, Enermx Platimax 850, Enermx Liqtech TR4 CPU Cooler, Radeon RX580, BIOS 2.00, 2xHDDs WD
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start with default frequency, if its stable, keep increasing, until u hit wall
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Thanks for your reply.

Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

soniqboom, I would suggest you open a ticket with ASRock Support and start the discussion of a RMA for your board with a bad memory socket.  

I will do that later today if we don't make any further progress in this thread.

Originally posted by MisterJ MisterJ wrote:

What speed are you running the memory?

I'm just using the defaults in the UEFI - I haven't made any changes. The UEFI defaults to XMP Profile = Auto, TR4 Advance Boot Training = Auto. 

What would you recommend as the process when the system is first booted up to configure memory speed?


Edited by soniqboom - 19 Jan 2018 at 4:57pm
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EDIT: Thanks for the help, wardog. Sorry, I was so focused on writing a proper reply and making sure I had covered all your points I forgot to thank you.

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


Looks like you're placing the mem is in the wrong slots Wink
(pic shows to populate in the order B1, D1 for 2 sticks, or A1, B1, C1, D1 for 4 sticks)

This isn't what's shown in the x399 Taichi manual on page 20 - the manual states slots A2, B2 for two sticks and A2, B2, C2, D2 for 4 sticks. Is the manual incorrect?

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


Your 64GB kit. Are the 4 sticks serial numbers consecutive?

Yes they are (this is a quad channel kit, but I did double check that they were consecutive S/Ns before installing the sticks).

The sticks were originally installed with consecutive S/Ns in slot order A2, B2, C2, D2. The tests I did tested both consecutive S/N order, and other randomised orders.

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


Too, make damn sure they are FULLY seated into he slot(s).


They are. You can't help but flex this board a little when you install RAM sticks once the board is in the case; I don't want to push any harder and flex it any more than it does already. FWIW both ends of the stick click into their catches.

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


With two consecutive sticks populating ONLY A2 and B2, check that BIOS recognizes 32GB, and you check stability however you care.

I did this - it is detailed in the original post. To summarise as my original post may have been badly written: 
  1. The BIOS recognises 32 GB in the configuration A2, B2, but Windows only recognises "32 GB of RAM, 16 GB usable". (This is actually with both consecutive and non-consecutive S/Ns on the sticks although I only detailed the consecutive S/N tests).
  2. With a single stick in B2 the BIOS recognises 16GB and so does windows.
  3. With a single stick in A2 
    1. With v1.50 and v2.00 the BIOS fails to boot with Dr Debug error C0.
    2. With v1.70 the BIOS fails to boot, cycling the Dr Debug errors de Ad A2 21 12 33

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

Reset BIOS to Default, Save and exit, reboot back to BIOS, using Instant Flash flash to BIOS 2.00, check that BIOS recognizes 32GB, and you check stability however you care.

Post back how that goes using A2 and B2.

When you say "Reset BIOS to Default" I assume you mean to clear CMOS?

I did the above steps, updating to v2.00 using Instant Flash from the x399tc2.00 file. The results were the same as before: BIOS recognises all the sticks as 16384MB (DDR4-2133) with Total Memory = 65536MB, Quadruple-Channel Memory Mode, however Windows reports "32GB of RAM, 15.9 usable".

And to your other comment:

Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:


Note: Always check stability BEFORE flashing!

FWIW I genuinely thought I had as the BIOS was reporting all sticks as being present, which is why I proceeded to flash it and then install windows.

It is worth noting that if the BIOS had been shipped as v1.70 I wouldn't have got as far as installing windows due to the cycling Dr Debug error codes that prevent the board even POSTing. It's odd that this feature went away in v2.00

FWIW the reason I flashed when I did is because of reading the issues about: (1) installing windows with earlier BIOS versions (iirc they are related to iommu settings); and (2) m.2 sata ssds causing issues in slots 1+2. Both of these were reported fixed by v2.00. However next time I will certainly install with the shipped BIOS first. Assuming there are no issues using my SATA SSD in M2_2 then I will test memory stability before updating the BIOS.


Edited by soniqboom - 19 Jan 2018 at 4:57pm
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