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Z97 Extreme 4 TPM version support |
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paulodoidaotga
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Joined: 9 hours 36 minutes ago Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 105 |
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Posted: 7 hours 58 minutes ago at 10:51pm |
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Hello Xaltar,
I'm Paulo. I believe you're a bit mistaken regarding what you said. I bought a cheap Z97 Extreme9 that I found in 2022 to build a more "modern" PC than my Z77 Extreme4, which I assembled in 2017. At the end of 2025, I bought the processor, a case and finally built the Z97 Extreme9, still using the RAM and graphics card from the Z77 Extreme4 (low budget? I'm below low budget, lol). I already have Windows 11 running normally on the Z97 Extreme9, even without TPM 2.0. At work, on a newer company laptop, I use Windows 11 with all TPM 2.0-related encryption, signing, and security features disabled, since they are not required for my use case, which demonstrates that Windows 11 runs perfectly fine even without TPM 2.0, despite it being a Microsoft "requirement." I came across support-related issues involving TPM and ReBAR. ReBAR already has mods that make it work. A few months ago, I bought an ASRock TPM2-S module and started working on getting it recognized by the Z97 Extreme9, to prepare for a future where applications may require this chip. Regarding TPM 2.0, I've been studying it extensively over the last few months and found Z97 Extreme4, Z97 Extreme6, and Z97 Killer BIOS versions made by ASRock that include TPM 2.0 support. I spent a lot of time analyzing the BIOS modifications that added TPM 2.0 support to those boards. I've already identified the modified BIOS PEI and DXE modules responsible for TPM 2.0 support. Replicating them, however, is a much more complicated challenge that I'm still dealing with. Some DXE and PEI modules can be copied from the supported boards. The DSDT can also be extracted, modified to include TPM 2.0 support code, recompiled, and reinserted. Right now, I'm working on the DXE modules that cannot be decompiled or easily updated and are unique to each motherboard, specifically AMITSE and SETUP, since they involve initialization addresses for the different hardware components on different boards. These would need to be recreated either from the original source code or through complete reverse engineering, because they contain new TPM 2.0 variables that must be initialized, along with additional BIOS memory allocations for those variables. Within ASRock's internal files, everything I've done could likely be accomplished in minutes using the TPM 2.0 files and source code from those boards together with the original Z97 Extreme9 source code. I still haven't received any response from support. They may even already have a compiled beta BIOS for the Z97 Extreme9 in their internal archives. I hope, lol. I'm still fighting... The Z97 Extreme4 BIOS discussed in this thread, with TPM 2.0 support, has existed since 9 days after this topic was originally created by aoma08. I know the exact date because it was the easiest one to find, it's mentioned in forum posts and also on the motherboard's official page, dated from when it was released. Just download the 2.60A beta (Z97Ex42.60A), which is still available today. https://www.asrock.com/MB/Intel/Z97%20Extreme4/index.br.asp#BIOS The Z97 Extreme6 BIOS with TPM 2.0 support was sent to user pollanonim, who requested it on the ASRock forum 8 days before aoma08 created this topic. He made it available through download links and DropBox links that are still working today. Just download the 2.80A beta (Z97Ex62.80A), which is still available today. https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9091&PN=1&title=asrock-z97-extreme6-and-tpm2s-module The Z97 Killer BIOS with TPM 2.0 support was sent to user drock88, who requested it on the ASRock forum 20 days before aoma08 created this topic. The original ASRock link no longer works, but user steridhh and others who likely downloaded it at the time, have made it available through DropBox download links that are still working today. Just download the 2.60A beta (Z97Kill2.60a), which is still available today. https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9019&PN=1&title=fatal1ty-z97-killer-tpm Finally, this shows that the Z97 Extreme4 has had official TPM 2.0 support from ASRock since 2018, contrary to what you told albetov1 based on limited information about the matter. I hope this helps anyone who needs it. I'm replying more briefly to albertov1, who asked a few months ago, so that he can receive a notification if possible. |
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Xaltar
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Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Online Points: 39358 |
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Posted: 6 hours 39 minutes ago at 12:10am |
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That is great info paulodoidaotga. My comments are regarding official stances, I
never said it wasn't possible to do XYZ, only that ASRock isn't able to assist in doing so anymore. I am 100% all for users finding alternative/third party solutions to keep older systems going. Sadly the vast majority of users that find their way here asking for help don't have the experience and skills to figure them out. That makes posts like yours all the more valuable/useful to the community. This is exactly the purpose of these forums, for users with more skills/experience to share tips and fixes with those just getting started. My comment to albertov1 was "I doubt you will get anywhere" not you can't. Not knowing if a board has received a suitable (unofficial) update I can't tell a community member to waste time going searching for something that may not exist. Keep fighting the good fight
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paulodoidaotga
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Posted: 2 hours 42 minutes ago at 4:07am |
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I understand, Xaltar.
The issue here is that his question is about the TPM 2.0 of a motherboard that has had an "official" update from ASRock since 2018 on the motherboard's website, and your answer was that it didn't have one. That's the small misunderstanding I'm talking about. It took me 1 minute to check the motherboard's website and changelog before responding to this specific case. He didn't even ask about Windows 11, but about TPM 2.0 and secure boot, both of which have been supported on his motherboard for some time. We know he probably wants to install Windows 11 or Valorant or whatever, but even so, this motherboard supports the physical chip to function normally with TPM 2.0, up to Windows 10. Windows 11 continues to update on machines not officially supported, for those who care about updates, and it may stop updating as you mention something similar in other messages and topics I've read. Regarding the official methods, I understand, but there's a lot of confusion mixing TPM PTT with firmware, which Intel or Microsoft doesn't really support for 8th generation and earlier in Windows 11, because it's basically a TPM PTT based entirely on code that these processors may not have instructions to execute even if the commands are coded in the BIOS, confusing it with hardware-based TPM dTPM which Microsoft doesn't limit to the processor version since it doesn't need instructions that Intel doesn't have in these older processors. In my opinion, they played it safe by limiting Windows 11 to the 8th generation, since PTT started appearing in the 6th generation, but than more widely in the 8th. This way, they avoided two generations of users complaining about whether or not they had support because their 6th-7th generation Intel processor/chipset might or might not have the correct PTT for TPM 2.0. Besides other things that make these specifications more convenient for Windows 11, such as security updates for these older processors that aren't as current and secure as the 8th generation, more convenience for programming the processor and OS to work on a smaller number of hardware configurations, etc. The complicated part is that people confuse Intel and Microsoft having contracts with motherboard manufacturers limiting the technology they can officially support for TPM 2.0 on platforms that don't have PTT (firmware-exclusive TPM and BIOS code/not physical), with them preventing manufacturers from making updates for these older boards that have the physical dTPM on the 18-pin connector, not depending on PTT, since everything is done through the old physical TPM that has supported TPM 2.0 chips for a long time. This physical connector delivers all the instructions for the system to function the 2.0 chip correctly, requiring only a BIOS coding since TPM 2.0 has more instructions and words to be read by the BIOS and delivered to the OS that will use the chip. This is why it works normally in BIOS updates made by "ASRock" itself, as I mentioned in these 3 cases. They confuse TPM dTPM (hardware/physical), which is almost entirely independent of the processor, chipset, or OS and depends almost solely on the manufacturer's BIOS having the code to recognize the physical chip installed on the board and relay it to the OS, with TPM PTT firmware (Processor Instruction and BIOS/virtual), which has broad support in processors since the 8th generation and may not need the physical chip but requires the processor to have the instructions. Regarding hardware/physical TPM 2.0 dTPM, there are no limitations from Intel or Microsoft, since the chip does almost everything. The confusion arises from mixing older processors not supporting a TPM PTT only through code without a physical chip on the board, with these hardware and software developers making contracts with ASRock that prevent them from supporting TPM 2.0 on older hardware. And I'm not even talking about Windows 11 here, because there are people who used and may want to use TPM 2.0 on Windows 10, which has support for older CPUs and TPM 2.0 for BitLocker, meaning the "limitation" of official Intel support for the manufacturer doesn't even apply, since it's an OS with official support for these processors, and the "limitation" from Microsoft doesn't even exist, since it's a supported processor. Let alone those who use Linux, which only depends on the motherboard delivering the TPM 2.0 chip to it correctly initialized. I use Windows 10 on one partition and Windows 11 on another, more Windows 10 for now, but I'm preparing for the future, who knows, with dedication in about 2 years I might finish the mods that nobody has ever created to. kkkkk However, being unaware or knowing, they're using the lack of support from the motherboard manufacturer to justify not updating the code for these older boards, as if Microsoft or Intel and their official contracts with the manufacturer limit it. They can only limit what depends on the PTT to function, not these cases that don't need it because it's dTPM. When in reality, there may not be this "contractual obligation" from ASRock, just a convenient misinterpretation so they don't support these older boards. My own motherboard proves it, ASRock already has the code they used in the three Z97 BIOS to make TPM 2.0 work that I mentioned. They would just have to copy this code that someone already created and compile it on my Z97 Extreme9, as they quickly did on the others, if they don't already have it compiled because someone asked for it. Maybe I'll get lucky, lol. In the case of his z97 Extreme 4, you just need to buy the TPM2-S 2 and be happy with Windows 10 without updates, with the software that requires TPM 2.0. TPM 2.0 won't be a requirement in Valorant on Windows 10 for now, but it doesn't hurt to have it on Windows 10, hahaha. Who knows, maybe one day I'll be on TPM 2.0 on my old, rustic motherboard too, hahaha. |
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Xaltar
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Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Online Points: 39358 |
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Posted: 9 minutes ago at 6:40am |
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You are basically going down a rabbit hole here. You are not wrong exactly but
your info is derived from assumptions based on what you have found out for yourself. There is no misunderstanding, up until fairly recently ASRock was providing TPM 2.0 support enabled BIOS versions to all of the people who asked for it. In all cases lately however, when people have asked they have been told that their board is EOL and no longer supported. This is a policy change and this change came directly following Microsoft cracking down on hardware requirements. The links to all those (custom) updates are no longer active. My opinion is that Microsoft cracked down and forced them to cease providing workarounds to their hardware minimum requirement checks. All board manufacturers have license agreements with Microsoft that allow them to market their motherboards as "windows compatible/Designed for Windows" etc as well as other optimization features. This gives them leverage to make demands like this. Bare in mind I do not speak for ASRock nor do I have any obligation to make excuses for them. I am a community moderator here, not ASRock tech support. For what it's worth, I absolutely disagree with what Microsoft is doing, particularly in the current state of the industry. If a PC is able to run an OS reliably enough for the person using it then it should be permitted to install it. Artificially locking out perfectly good hardware to sell more OEM licenses is appalling to me. Cutting off old DDR2 based systems makes sense but they went way too far IMHO. Edited by Xaltar - 9 minutes ago at 6:40am |
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