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Problems with Z170m Pro4s

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wardog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 1:16am
Here's a ROG guide but you should still be able to interpret what the differences are between you board and the board that the guide is using.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53306-DDR4-3000-Setup-Guide-For-Rampage-V-Extreme
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claf1109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 1:22am
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

What settings are you using for 4.5? They're not in the screenies you posted.

After some additional BCLK tweaking, at full load, i get a 1.296 Vcore and a 1.315 VID.
It passed both 6hours of OCCT and ~8hours of X264(16T].

Using the same method i managed to push up to 4.6 with 1.328 Vcore and 1.345 VID, but the max temps were hitting 75°C, and I thought it was maybe a bit too much on a long term basis.

I also managed to boot an "almost" stable 4.7 with 1.376 Vcore but it didn't pass the overnight test.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 3:01am
Meh, IMO all those overnight stress tests aren't needed and may in fact be harmful or at least somewhat harmful to the MB and certainly to your CPU.

If this/was a server I might say sure, but even then not under those amounts of time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claf1109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 3:26am
Originally posted by wardog wardog wrote:

Here's a ROG guide but you should still be able to interpret what the differences are between you board and the board that the guide is using.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?53306-DDR4-3000-Setup-Guide-For-Rampage-V-Extreme

Thanks for the link, another thing i learned in the process of overclocking My CPU & RAM :-)

But in my case, there's not much i can do. It says to up the VCCSA 1 mV at a time. 
In the Z170M Pro4s Bios, there's only 2 VCCSA settings : 1.05 and 1.20.

As for the overnight tests, i wanted to be cautious as it was my first overclock. I didn't use softwares such as Prime that put (in my opinion) way too much pressure on the machine.

But since i tend to do really long gaming sessions when i get a day off (sometimes between 12 and 16 hours) i thought it was worth the time and effort

Anyways 4.5 is more than enough right now to do everything i want. I get a passmark score of about 10.000, which is at the same level as a "base" 4770k.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 3:55am
Originally posted by Claf1109 Claf1109 wrote:

In the Z170M Pro4s Bios, there's only 2 VCCSA settings : 1.05 and 1.20.

Yea, that's common on mATX boards, regardless of manufacturer. Lack of full spread of settings available.

Are you running the latest BIOS?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claf1109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Dec 2015 at 4:02am
i started with the latest stable bios : 2.20

But i saw that beta bios 2.22 was supposed to help with Ram overclocking. So I flashed it, but no improvement so far.

I saw yesterday that a new beta bios (2.23) was out, but I think i'll pass on that one and wait for the next stable one. It's only supposed to allow BCLK overclocking for non-K processors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2015 at 2:57am
Claf1109, don't worry about increasing the voltage beyond 1.2V if you are using two DIMMs per channel. Intel has always been very (overly) conservative with voltages, particularly with memory.

I'm using two 4GB G.SKILL Trident Z DIMMs rated at 3200, whose XMP profile sets the memory voltage to 1.35V, in my ASRock Z170 Extreme7+ board, with an i5-6600K at 4.4GHz. I can OC that memory to 3800 manually, and the memory voltage is now at... 1.384V.

Your memory is listed in your board's Memory Support list, using two DIMMs per channel. I'm glad to see you are using HWiNFO, can you see your memory voltage in the section with all the voltage data? If so, is it 1.2V?

Do you have a System Agent (VCCSA) voltage setting in your board's UEFI/BIOS? Do you see that voltage in HWiNFO?

You're using two different two-DIMM kits of your HyperX memory. While I have had good luck mixing different kits of Crucial DDR4 memory on my X99 board, it is not a given that unmatched kits of memory will work well together. DDR3 memory is well known to be finicky about mixing kits of the same memory, if the DIMMs were not a matched set.

An interesting test would be just using two DIMMs, one in each channel, and try to OC it to the next level. If that fails to boot, that would indicate you don't have any overhead in the memory's ability to OC. That also indicates using four DIMMs will need voltage tweaks.

My suggestions for using all four DIMMs are:

  • Increase the memory voltage to 1.25V, or more, to 1.3V. You won't hurt anything in a short term test, if you are worried about that. If the PC boots at the higher memory voltage, then you can try reducing it 0.01V at a time, if you don't like the higher voltage.
  • Increase the System Agent (VCCSA) voltage when you increase the memory voltage. Try about 0.050V more. You may need to experiment with the amount to increase it.
  • In the memory timings sections of the UEFI, set ALL of the main memory timings to Auto. That is mainly the timings at the top of the screen, the primary timings. If the PC boots with Auto timings, you may find the timings have increased automatically, which is the intent of using Auto. Use and test the PC with the Auto timings, and if that works, you can then attempt to reduce the timings.
  • Skylake boards have a voltage called DRAM Activating Power Supply voltage, which I can see in HWiNFO, and is an option in my board's UEFI. HWiNFO labels it as DRAM VPP. It should be at least 2.500V, mine is shown as 2.560V. If yours is less than 2.50V, you should tweak it up to at least 2.50V.
  • My board has a VCCIO option in the Voltages section. Yours does not?
Regarding your CPU OC, your board has a six phase VRM stage, which is good but not as strong as larger, more expensive boards. My board has a 12 phase VRM stage, for example.

Your 4.6GHz OC is 1.1GHz over the base clock of 3.5GHz for our CPU. That is a great OC, expecting more may not be realistic.

What CPU cooler are you using? Skylake processors run cooler than earlier processor in my experience. Skylake processors seem to be more robust regarding the VCore, the stock VID is much higher than Haswell processors. A VCore of 1.4V for Skylake is not excessive for a high OC, given what I have seen other users post on various forums.

The change with Win 10 is odd, I use Win 10 and my 4.4GHz OC is stable at 1.264V. All CPUs are different, you may have had bad luck with the "silicon lottery". But a 4.6GHz OC is certainly not bad at all, it's very good. Expecting more with your board and CPU cooler may be not practical.

What PSU are you using?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claf1109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 2015 at 7:45am
Hi,

Lots of questions to answer ! I'll do my best to remember the settings as i'm working the night shift and don't have access to my computer.

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Your memory is listed in your board's Memory Support list, using two DIMMs per channel. I'm glad to see you are using HWiNFO, can you see your memory voltage in the section with all the voltage data? If so, is it 1.2V?

If i use the XMP profile, it automatically sets the voltage to 1.250 in the bios. In Hwinfo, i get 1.264
If i use profiles available in the "DRAM tweaker" it sets the voltage to 1.20 and i get 1.216 in Hwinfo

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Do you have a System Agent (VCCSA) voltage setting in your board's UEFI/BIOS? Do you see that voltage in HWiNFO?

I do have have a VCCSA setting in the bios, with only two possible choices : 1.05 & 1.20 Volts. In Hwinfo, i get 1.072, but i don't remember the result of the 1.2 setting in hwinfo.


Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

An interesting test would be just using two DIMMs, one in each channel, and try to OC it to the next level. If that fails to boot, that would indicate you don't have any overhead in the memory's ability to OC. That also indicates using four DIMMs will need voltage tweaks.

I tried that earlier today while i was following the recommandations of Asrock support to solve my problems. I managed to boot at 2800 mhz and 1.25 voltage. I didn't test for stability but i didn't get any error message or glitches. It seemed manageable.
I still have to do the same thing with the other kit to see if there's a limitation on that side, but both booted with no problem at 2666 mhz.

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

My suggestions for using all four DIMMs are:

  • Increase the memory voltage to 1.25V, or more, to 1.3V. You won't hurt anything in a short term test, if you are worried about that. If the PC boots at the higher memory voltage, then you can try reducing it 0.01V at a time, if you don't like the higher voltage.

As i mentionned, 1.25 is already the auto setting with the XMP profile, but it doesn't help. I've also tried 1.30 a few time, but never pushed to 1.35.
As for the step by step setting, the bios only allows me to make 50mV bumps at a time.
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

  • Increase the System Agent (VCCSA) voltage when you increase the memory voltage. Try about 0.050V more. You may need to experiment with the amount to increase it.
This is also something I already tried in combination with a higher ram voltage. Since i don't have much choice, i set it directly to 1.2V
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

  • In the memory timings sections of the UEFI, set ALL of the main memory timings to Auto. That is mainly the timings at the top of the screen, the primary timings. If the PC boots with Auto timings, you may find the timings have increased automatically, which is the intent of using Auto. Use and test the PC with the Auto timings, and if that works, you can then attempt to reduce the timings.
If i remember Well, that's what happens when i enable the XMP profile, but i'm not 100% certain so i'll have to check again.
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

  • Skylake boards have a voltage called DRAM Activating Power Supply voltage, which I can see in HWiNFO, and is an option in my board's UEFI. HWiNFO labels it as DRAM VPP. It should be at least 2.500V, mine is shown as 2.560V. If yours is less than 2.50V, you should tweak it up to at least 2.50V.
I don't have a setting in the bios, but i remember getting the same voltage as you in HWinfo.
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

  • My board has a VCCIO option in the Voltages section. Yours does not?
Indeed, it does not at the moment. But i'm not giving up on ASRock yet Wink

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Your 4.6GHz OC is 1.1GHz over the base clock of 3.5GHz for our CPU. That is a great OC, expecting more may not be realistic.

I'm perfectly aware of that. It's my first overclock and at the end of the day, i'm really happy with the result. It took me endless hours of reading, tweaking in the bios, and falling asleep in front of stress tests. 

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

What CPU cooler are you using?

I'm using an Enermax Liqmax II 120 AIO. Honestly i'm really glad i went with that one. I got it for only 60 Euro and it's perfect in terms of bang for the buck.

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

A VCore of 1.4V for Skylake is not excessive for a high OC, given what I have seen other users post on various forums.

Yeah i read that too. I also read in an Intel release note that they could guarantee stability up to 1.52V. Still, these are scary numbers to me. 

Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

The change with Win 10 is odd, I use Win 10 and my 4.4GHz OC is stable at 1.264V. All CPUs are different, you may have had bad luck with the "silicon lottery". But a 4.6GHz OC is certainly not bad at all, it's very good. Expecting more with your board and CPU cooler may be not practical.

Since the first post, i've done some serious tweaking, and i managed to get really close to what i managed to achieve under Windows 8.1. I did have to fiddle with both the multiplier and the BCLK. Which did not help with the ram stability at first.

But i ended up hitting the Sweet Spot at 1.296 Vcore for 4.5ghz, and 1.328 Vcore for 4.582 Ghz (LLC level 1 in both cases)
Both are super stable, and i don't think i'm going to push higher as i have no real necessity for it. Plus, as you mentionned, i don't want to stress the motherboard too much.


Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

What PSU are you using?

I'm using a Be Quiet! Pure Power L8 630 CM. We'll see in the long run, but at the moment it's enough to cover both my 6600k and my r9 380 with a little headroom. It's really silent.
The cables don't look great (a bit too colourful for my taste) and the GPU cables are quite short, but it's not a problem in my mATX build.





Edited by Claf1109 - 19 Dec 2015 at 7:56am
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