Please suggest RAM for z97 pro4

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   Looking through the spec sheets and reviews on the E3 128X range I can only assume that the binning gets tricky at the clocks of the E3-1280 and even more so on the low TDP variant. You have to bare in mind Xeons have a reputation for stability over prolonged periods of continuous use this means that they are far more aggressively binned, in fact I would imagine it is high end Xeons that are binned first not the enthusiast i7 4790k as one may assume. Clock speed is not the only factor when binning a CPU, especially with the Xeon, other aspects of the chip need to be closely examined like TDP, cache stability and ECC functionality not to mention Hyperthreading. 
So far as I am aware the Haswell Xeons were developed first and the desktop variants were derivative as is usually the case with dev cycles. Desktop versions may well be manufactured on a modified process, Intel does not release this kind of information but the core layout and performance is so close that many speculate they are on the same fab. Without word from intel I guess we will never know for sure. The only really important factor is that they do perform similarly enough to be comparable same fab or no. I do know that the dual core CPUs in the desktop segment have smaller cores than the i5/i7 and Xeons so these CPUs actually use cut down dies even though the fab is the same. The question is, are they binned then cut or are they fabbed at that size. I wish intel would release more info on these kinds of things as they have always fascinated me 

As to the pricing of the E3 1200s it comes down to harvest sizes that become exponentially smaller the higher up the chain you go. Even the slightest problem will throw them down the binning lots. I suspect very few pass muster at the 128X level while significantly more pass at 127X and more still lower down which is why I think the 1220 being so expensive given it is the lowest binned Xeon is a little odd, by this stage there should be a more significant number of harvested CPUs. Unless there are diminishing returns under a certain level where if it fails at X level it will likely fail completely? It is fun to think about. 

I was going to add the variants then decided against it so as to avoid confusion. For the most part the variants tend to be more expensive anyway. That and I am not entirely sure what the purpose of all of them are lol. I know the T and the K but have never looked into the R and S variants. I think I will do that now, thanks for the heads up 

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Xaltar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 24638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Xaltar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 12:54am
	Looking through the spec sheets and reviews on the E3 128X range I can only assume that the binning gets tricky at the clocks of the E3-1280 and even more so on the low TDP variant. You have to bare in mind Xeons have a reputation for stability over prolonged periods of continuous use this means that they are far more aggressively binned, in fact I would imagine it is high end Xeons that are binned first not the enthusiast i7 4790k as one may assume. Clock speed is not the only factor when binning a CPU, especially with the Xeon, other aspects of the chip need to be closely examined like TDP, cache stability and ECC functionality not to mention Hyperthreading. So far as I am aware the Haswell Xeons were developed first and the desktop variants were derivative as is usually the case with dev cycles. Desktop versions may well be manufactured on a modified process, Intel does not release this kind of information but the core layout and performance is so close that many speculate they are on the same fab. Without word from intel I guess we will never know for sure. The only really important factor is that they do perform similarly enough to be comparable same fab or no. I do know that the dual core CPUs in the desktop segment have smaller cores than the i5/i7 and Xeons so these CPUs actually use cut down dies even though the fab is the same. The question is, are they binned then cut or are they fabbed at that size. I wish intel would release more info on these kinds of things as they have always fascinated me As to the pricing of the E3 1200s it comes down to harvest sizes that become exponentially smaller the higher up the chain you go. Even the slightest problem will throw them down the binning lots. I suspect very few pass muster at the 128X level while significantly more pass at 127X and more still lower down which is why I think the 1220 being so expensive given it is the lowest binned Xeon is a little odd, by this stage there should be a more significant number of harvested CPUs. Unless there are diminishing returns under a certain level where if it fails at X level it will likely fail completely? It is fun to think about. I was going to add the variants then decided against it so as to avoid confusion. For the most part the variants tend to be more expensive anyway. That and I am not entirely sure what the purpose of all of them are lol. I know the T and the K but have never looked into the R and S variants. I think I will do that now, thanks for the heads up

car313 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote car313 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 1:37am
	dear Xalter i am rarely (if ever) gaming (almost never - i only play mahjongg, freecell, cueball and some chess rarely.) i am very frequently using CAD programs - free as well as time limited trialware. i am very frequently using 3d modelling programs AND rendering using free and commercial render engines with free trial offers. of course i do a lot of browsing, a huge lot of reading and occasionally play around with database programs. i also use gimp and inkscape for small time logo designing. i hope i have given you some idea of the intended use of my prospective system. and i hope you would be able to suggest something suitable for me with regard to a graphics card. i generally have a dual booting system with one or two linux variants and windows. thnx as always.

Xaltar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 24638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Xaltar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 2:10am
	In that case I would look at the GTX 750 or possibly even the GTX 730 as you do not game and rendering at any kind of professional level will likely be outside of your budget. The GTX 750 will probably be more than enough for your needs and even performs reasonably well in render environments. I wouldn't waste the additional money on the Ti version either, it costs a fair bit more and offers little noticeable improvement. With an i5 4590 and a GTX 750 you should easily be able to pursue your 3d and rendering activities. Another thing you may want to invest in is an SSD boot/OS drive, it will make your PC feel faster and more responsive and will help with rendering too (writing to disk). For 3d apps you should look at blender, it is free and has no restrictions. If you look on the numerous blender support and enthusiast forums you will even find CAD scripts and tools to allow CAD like workflow in blender. Here is a decent GTX 750 with 2gb of VRAM which should be more than enough for your needs and seems to cost about the same as a decent dual channel kit of RAM

car313 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote car313 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 12:19pm
	dear xalter my primary purpose is to have a "reasonably" good system for mainly amateur 3d modelling and amateur CAD work. i generally watch tutorials and try to reproduce models from them. all these long years, though i had access to computers, most of them were almost unusable with blender 3d, sketchup (free), solid works (trial, all versions since 2004). i have not used autocad at all. i use blender 3d and free sketchup quite a lot. i use luxrender and also indigo trial version. i also use povray. i am more into modelling and rendering and very little animation. with solid works trial versions i would like to be able to do some small time simulation. occasionally i use ms access, and mysql and other open source databases. my budget is around 800 dollars. at a cinch i might be able to add another 100 dollars. the absolute upper limit is 1000 dollars. us dollars that is. at today's rate of 64.11 inr per us dollar. also i do not need to purchase a monitor. i have decided to use my dell 24'' monitor for sometime until i can afford a mid range high definition monitor. i almost always never play games (may be some freecell, solitaire, mahjongg and cueball now and then, but the children at home would welcome some amount of gaming capability in my proposed build) i have no intention of over clocking. this is an outline of my current situation. i request you to suggest a build that would fulfil these requirements. thnx in advance!

Xaltar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 24638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Xaltar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 2:00pm
	To do what you want to do you do not need a super powerful system. I use dual core Pentium G3258 with 8gb of RAM and a GTX 960 for my 3d work and I have no problems at all with performance. I can create 3 million polygon models and rotate/manipulate them without lag or stutter in blender, more if I use the sculpting tools. While I am not a "professional" 3d artist my work is pretty well known in PC game modding communities. I think our goal for you will be to build a solid performing system that will allow you to grow as a 3d artist and last you a good 4 - 5 years before you need to upgrade again. So, for your needs here is my recommendation: CPU: i5 4460 - $190 Or: Xeon E3 1231 v3 - $250 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- RAM: 8gb Corsair Vengeance (2x4gb) - $ 50 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Motherboard: Asrock Z97 Pro 4 - $100 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Graphics Card: Geforce GTX 750 - $130 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Power Supply: 430w Seasonic (very stable brand) - $ 60 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Case: Thermaltake Versa H25 - $ 40 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows drive: PNY XLR8 240gb SSD - $ 90 Storage: Western Digital Black 1tb - $ 80 ______________________________________________ Total cost: - $740 With Xeon: - $800 That will leave you with $60 for additional bits and pieces like keyboard, mouse etc. Click on the prices for the newegg links to the products I listed for you. I added in a really nice Xeon because I know you are a fan of them like me hehe and it takes the price up to your $800 limit. Please note, I chose quality components for you that will last rather than the cheapest variants available. The power supply for example is perhaps the most important element of your build as a bad one is capable of killing your entire system. The Seasonic unit I listed is one of the best low cost power supplies money can buy. This system will make you smile from ear to ear performance wise. I included an SSD for windows and your 3d programs, using the SSD for booting and program loading will make your PC a LOT quicker, just be sure you save your files and documents on the 1tb data drive I know you said you do not game so bare with me here, new PC games are a great way to tell if your PC is up to speed with current 3d tech, the system I pieced together for you here would perform very well in games at 720p/1080p that means that it should be well up to the task for 3d apps for quite some time to come (4 - 5 years is my guess). I would also recommend you spend a little more on a decent precision mouse as I have found that to be insanely usefull when working in 3d productivity apps. If you have any further questions please feel free to ask. Edited by Xaltar - 06 Jun 2015 at 2:09pm

car313 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote car313 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 3:23pm
	dear Xalter i do not know what to say. you are truly generous with your knowledge and help! the first thing i need to do is to find out the prices here in india and start building. also (sheepish grin here ;) could you help me out with the assembly bit? i have watched a lot of youtube videos about assembling pcs. also i can confidently install cd rom drives, remove and replace rams, hdds and install add on cards. i think i will be asking questions along the way. so. thanks for everything. by the way is that xeon you added capable of hyperthreading? i was just curious. anyway i'll look up the matter in google also. have a great day and have a pleasant night!

Xaltar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 24638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Xaltar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 4:12pm
	I would not have recommended a non hyperthreaded Xeon That Xeon performs about the same as a core i7 4770 for a lot less money. It is the same CPU I am looking at for my next upgrade. As for build questions, by all means ask away when you are ready to get started. If this is your first build then you will need a few things. As a newbie to building I would strongly recommend you buy an "Anti-static Wrist band". This will help ensure that the static your body builds up does not damage any of your shiny new parts. You will also need a 5mm X head screwdriver though if you have been in and out of PC cases you no doubt already have the tools. You will want a large elevated work space like a dining room table that is clear of clutter so you can lay out your components in an easy to manage fashion being careful to keep things away from the edges so nothing can fall off. If you have all this then the build should be nice and easy to manage. The only elements I foresee you needing a little help with are cable management and possibly installing the CPU into the board as that can be a little fiddly for first timers.

car313 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote car313 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 2015 at 3:56pm
	dear Xalter i have run into an 'out of stock' problem with the 1231. e3 1245 v2 and v3 are available. so is e3 1246 v3. all other available xeons are completely out of my purchasing capacity. i am making enquiries with real hardware shops (as against the virtual ones) in two major cities of my region for getting hold of a e3 1231 v3. but i have a hunch that e3 1231 v3 is widely hunted game and hence in short supply. i do not know how long i need to wait for these online shops to replenish their stock. if the worst comes to worse, which one of the others would you suggest i buy? being a newbie, i was thinking that as far as these esoteric naming schemes go, the higher number is better. but i could be wrong. thnx in advance!

Xaltar Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Joined: 16 May 2015 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 24638	Post Options Post Reply Quote Xaltar Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jun 2015 at 4:25pm
	Luckily understanding the Xeon E3 line is very simple E3 1245 v2 IS NOT A SOCKET 1150 CPU DO NOT BUY IT, it is socket 1155 and is based on the older Ivybridge architecture. Stay away from ALL v1 and v2 Xeons, bare in mind v1 will simply not have a suffix. E3 1245 v3 is identical to the E3 1231 in both performance and clock speeds however it has an integrated GPU (iGPU) which means it can be used without a dedicated graphics card. E3 1246 v3 is better than the E3 1231 in performance and clock speed by 100mhz and also has an iGPU. Personally I would get the E3 1246 v3 as it is newer than the others (like the E3 1231) and is a little faster. All Xeons with numbers higher than 1226 V3 are hyperthreaded so 1230 V3 and above. Any of these would be more than adequate for you. I listed the e3 1231 v3 purely because it is the best price/performance hyperthreaded Xeon. The others just cost a little more Edited by Xaltar - 09 Jun 2015 at 4:28pm

car313 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 32	Post Options Post Reply Quote car313 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Jun 2015 at 1:11am
	dear Xaalter e3 1246 v3 it is. primarily because it seems that e3 1231 v3 seems to be very difficult to purchase at least here in india. so. so can i go ahead with the other components? one more thing, i plan to install add on pci cards as i go along. so i want to ask if 430 watts would be sufficient? another issue is about the ram. i changed my mind about populating all the four slots with 4gb stcks. instead what i have decided to do is to go in for 2 x 8 gb sticks. after a couple of months, i will buy another similar pair to max out the ram. does that sound reasonable? as the 1246 is going to cost about 50 usd more, is there a chance for me to may be see if i can get away with a cheaper cabinet? also we have not provided for a cd/dvd drive. thnx in advance. and have great day and a great night! /