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SM951 as OS boot device information

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Ringo45 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ringo45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 5:25pm
Hi all,
 
I'm new and gathering onfo for my next build based on an ASROCK Z170 extreme 7+ and a SM951 NVME SSD. Will be installing Windows 10 clean from an USB drive.
 
@IanJM:
I've found info on the web stating that the firmware should be BXW7300Q or higher in order to get a high storage bandwidth (legitreviews: 
storage bandwidth score went from 97.48 MB/s to an impressive 616.76 MB/s).
Any further info on this?
 
 
Do you have the new firmware on your NVME SSD?
And what is your boot time? Has it improved much comparing to your previous drive?
 
 

 


Edited by Ringo45 - 22 Sep 2015 at 5:25pm
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parsec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2015 at 11:02pm
It looks like I found the answer to the low benchmark results.

Created a new RAID 0 of my SM951s, with a 16K stripe size. The result:




Does this look familiar?

One more thing to tweak. If you have the C States CPU power saving options Enabled in the UEFI, set them to Disabled before running the benchmark. IO is low CPU usage, so if the CPU is idling with C States enabled, that increases latency in IO.

PLEASE try using the 128K stripe size before giving up on these SSD and board. I'm hoping your mileage will NOT vary. Show me some great results... please!! Thumbs Up
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Ronzer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ronzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 12:38pm
raid strip size 128k:







MUCH better
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 2:18pm
Ronzer, are you a happier SM951 RAID 0 user now? Wink You're welcome... Ermm

Since I had to prove the 16K stripe was the culprit, I'll show you what a benchmark looks like with C States Enabled. Yes, I had C States Disabled for all my previous results.

Now, 16K Stripe with C States Enabled:



Hmm, lost over 10MB/s in 4K Read speed, and a bit everywhere else.

Intel previously had an option for IRST called DSA, Dynamic Storage Accelerator. That was an option in the IRST Windows program, and a UEFI option in Storage Configuration, to toggle On or Off.

DSA basically turned C States On and Off. They add latency to IO, even though IO is not CPU intensive. DSA would switch from C States on ("Low Gear" in Intel's dumbed down terminology) to C States off ("High Gear") automatically or manually by the user.

So where is DSA now? Good question. Removed in IRST 14 for some reason. Must be related to the PCIe SSDs. DSA is convenient for disabling C States, unless you use another tool for that. Cool

Our ATTO results are similar in the shape of the Read speed results. You have better write results with double the NAND per SSD, and a Terabyte more of NAND to write to. Your Anvil results are great, I never ran that on my 128K stripe, better do that now.

So do you agree the 128K stripe is better than a 16K stripe? Imagine reading a 1 Gigabyte test file, 16K at a time from three SSDs. 128K is 8 times 16K. Plus underlying details of the NAND page size.

This is some of the first results in the wild with these SSDs in RAID 0. We know this stuff now, not many others do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 3:38pm
My Anvil results with a 128K stripe, 2x 256GB SM951 RAID 0:



We can see some of the advantages and disadvantages of various configurations of RAID 0 arrays, comparing Ronzer's and my Anvil results.

The three SSDs in Ronzer's array add a little bit of latency to the Read Response Times. The difference in time is fractions of a millisecond, but we can see the difference in the Read IOPs, and then MB/s.

Same thing in the Write results. Three SSDs provide an advantage here in large file writes, and 4K random writes. But as the queue depth increases, the extra drive's added latency seems to have an affect. Anvil shows why (in a small way) why the single response time number in AS SSD is an average at best, or possibly even a best (lowest) access time. One access time out of hundreds of thousands of IOs tells us very little.

One thing never changes, the loss of some 4K random read speed with RAID 0 arrays. That is classic with SATA SSDs, and the basics don't change with PCIe SSDs. But in my experience, any 4K random read speed of 35 MB/s and higher makes no difference in OS loading time. Loading an OS is not reading one or a few large files. If it were, SSDs like this would reduce OS loading time by a factor of six compared to a SATA SSD, assuming ~500 MB/s sequential read speed for the SATA SSD.

So far the "scaling" of PCIe SSDs is not as good as SATA SSDs. Scaling in RAID 0 is how much more performance is created by adding another drive. If a single SSD can read a large file at 500 MB/s, and two of them in RAID 0 gives 1,000 MB/s (common) then the scaling is perfect, 100%.

We see poorer scaling with the DMI3 interface and the SM951s. Less then 50% in large file sequential read speed. That could be due to how close these SSDs are already to the max bandwidth of the DMI3 interface. Nothing like obsoleting a new interface in one chipset generation. Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wiku Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2015 at 7:58pm
Hello! I requested BIOS update that:

  • Allows booting with SM951 256Gb SSD through PCI-e adapter 

 for H87M Pro4 Motherboard from AsRock support.

Here is the BIOS they gave to me:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=02633572217212818984

It seemed to be custom BIOS dedicated for my request because it is not updated on site.
And I have no idea about BIOSes so don't know what they changed in it so, use it on your own responsibility.
All I know it works for me and I am running Windows 10 on my SM951.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 3:15am
Fresh Windows 10 Install Asrock z170 OC Formula XMP switch ON on motherboard. One stick of 8GB Ripsaw 4 3000mhz DDR4 in slot A2:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 5.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2015 hiyohiyo
                           Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :  2924.577 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :  2747.000 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   347.306 MB/s [ 84791.5 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   255.071 MB/s [ 62273.2 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :  2742.753 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :  2374.595 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    37.010 MB/s [  9035.6 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    77.888 MB/s [ 19015.6 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [C: 2.0% (14.5/714.9 GiB)] (x3)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2015/09/23 15:10:57
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10240] (x64)
    Samsung 951 3x256mb RAID0 128k win10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 3:33am
After implementing some of Parsec's suggestions:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 5.0.2 x64 (C) 2007-2015 hiyohiyo
                           Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

   Sequential Read (Q= 32,T= 1) :  3077.520 MB/s
  Sequential Write (Q= 32,T= 1) :  2696.027 MB/s
  Random Read 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   374.419 MB/s [ 91410.9 IOPS]
 Random Write 4KiB (Q= 32,T= 1) :   234.386 MB/s [ 57223.1 IOPS]
         Sequential Read (T= 1) :  2681.482 MB/s
        Sequential Write (T= 1) :  2641.618 MB/s
   Random Read 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :    30.417 MB/s [  7426.0 IOPS]
  Random Write 4KiB (Q= 1,T= 1) :   139.763 MB/s [ 34121.8 IOPS]

  Test : 1024 MiB [C: 2.4% (17.3/714.9 GiB)] (x3)  [Interval=5 sec]
  Date : 2015/09/23 15:32:18
    OS : Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 10240] (x64)
    Manual Trim completed, Write Back Cache selected
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TimH View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2015 at 12:47pm
I ran Avil's and my score was 10682. So I'm right about where you guys predicted I would be. Slower than the 951s 512GB and SLIGHTLY slower than 2 951 256GBs due to the latency that seems to be occurring when the third stick is used in the RAID.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Sep 2015 at 12:33am
TimH, I can't find which size SM951s you are using, but it seems to be three 256GB, is that right?

I tried a 64K stripe size to see if the larger the stripe size, the better the sequential/large file speed result trend would remain the same. With SATA SSDs, we don't see that trend as much since there is more available bandwidth, at least for up to three SSDs. That was true for Intel 8 and 9 series chipsets. The 10 series chipsets have greatly increased IO bandwidth, relative to SATA SSDs.

But the PCIe SSDs using an x4 interface seem to be using most if not all of the available bandwidth of the 10 series chipset (Z170) with two SM951s. I don't know if it is the IRST 14.x driver that is the limitation, or the bandwidth of the chipset. I read in an SM951 review on a very respectable PC review website that the real world maximum sequential speed of a PCIe 3.0 x4 interface will be ~3,200 MB/s. But IMO that does not seem right when using multiple x4 interfaces. I may be missing something here... Confused

Regardless, my 64K stripe size result:



The trend seems to continue, the sequential read speed is slightly reduced from the 128K stripe size. The real world difference between 64K and 128K won't be particularly noticeable IMO. The 4K high queue depth speed seems somewhat better with the 64K stripe.

I forgot to mention that benchmark testing an OS volume will result in slightly reduced results, since it will be interrupted by OS tasks during the test.

It looks like the sweet spot for PCIe x4 SSDs in RAID 0 is a two drive array IMO. The increase in performance with a third SSD seems minimal. That is, at least for the Z170 chipset and the current state of the IRST RAID driver. The real world user experience with two and three drive RAID 0 arrays may be different, which only long term use of each would reveal. I'd like to see the benchmark results of a two, 512GB SM951 RAID 0 array.

Would you agree that the 16K stripe size is not optimal for use for SM951s in RAID 0? Wink

128K and 64K are optimal for the best sequential performance, and don't sacrifice 4K performance very much, if at all. Those are the stripe sizes we would suggest to others, right?




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