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AsRock Fatality 990FX (CPU Throttling)

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Atomic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 12:43pm
Hey everyone,

I'm not looking to over clock my system haphazardly and so I am seeking expert Council from those in the know.
So I totally understand the concern from everyone involved here.
As mentioned already in my earlier posts I want to know the best/safest way to over clock my system to get as much performance out of the AMD CPU as I can.

I want to have the AMD CPU to run at the fastest frequency I can safely achieve at 100% 24/7.
Which is where my question about the CPU throttling question came from.
Even when I disabled AMD Power Saving, Cool and Quiet, Throttling the CPU speed was still throttling.

But anyway, here is a list of the specifications of my build.
(All the components except for the "HDD 2TB Western Digital" are brand new and purchased on the 21'st of December 2015).


CPU: AMD FX-6300
CPU Cooler: Deep Cool Maelstrom 120 (I have mounted (x2) 120mm fans of either said of the radiator which is sucking hot air outside of the case).
Motherboard: AsRock Fatality Killer 990 FX (BIOS Revision loaded is "P1.05" created on 08/04/2015)
RAM: Corsair 8Gb 2400 MHz modules (x2) = 16 Gb total
Graphics Card: Gigabyte G1 980 GTX 4GB
Power Supply: Corsair RM1000 (1000 Watt)
Case: Corsair Carbide Series "SPEC 02"
(OS Boot Drive) SSD: OCZ 240 Gb
(Drive for Programs, Games, Downloads etc) HDD: 2 TB Western Digital Black Series

For the Monitor I have a 24 Inch 1920 by 1080 (Ben Q - BL2410)


Edited by Atomic - 15 Jan 2016 at 1:15pm
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wardog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Atomic Atomic wrote:

I want to have the AMD CPU to run at the fastest frequency I can safely achieve at 100% 24/7.
Which is where my question about the CPU throttling question came from.
Even when I disabled AMD Power Saving, Cool and Quiet, Throttling the CPU speed was still throttling.

....

CPU Cooler: Deep Cool Maelstrom 120 (I have mounted (x2) 120mm fans of either said of the radiator which is sucking hot air outside of the case).


First thing you must do is safely and securely position a fan to blow over the VRM sink, the big black one that says Killer on it.

Water cooling removes any air flow over this that would otherwise be there when using a normal top-down OEM style air cooler.

This reason, and this alone, is most likely the cause of your throttling. The VRM's must have air blowing over them to cool them. For when they do heat up what you describe is a likely occurrence. Throttling.

While I cannot say with 100% certainty this IS your problem, from here where I sit with my knowledge of AMD boards/cpus this is most likely your issue.

And your only one I'll add. Nice system.

Post back when you get that fan jerry-rigged securely. For w/o that fan there is no point in moving forward. We'll proceed afterward.

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Atomic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2016 at 11:46pm
Hey Wardog,

If I am honest, that is a pretty big oversight by AsRock.
To design a motherboard titled as gaming and for this particular product not being able to handle a pre-set over clock included in the motherboard as one of it's features.
Just because the heat sink which covers the VRM's (The one with the Killer logo), is so poorly designed it is critically overheating and causing the system to loose stability.

There really should be better thermal dissipation on the VRM heatsink to allow for water cooling units to be installed without the need to have a dedicated fan to be jerry rigged to blow air directly over the top.

Am I wrong in saying that Asus or Gigabyte DO NOT have these same problems?


I can't figure out how to jerry rig the fan into the space right next to the VRM heatsink as the radiator is nearby.

So I am thinking either of these options:

1)
If only I could get an RMA or refund for the water Deep Cool cooling unit and get something else that will work better for this particular motherboard.
But how could I do that?
Is it the CPU coolers fault?

2)
Get a refund for the AsRock motherboard if AsROCK agree to raise an RMA for me and give authorisation for a swap by the place of purchase I got it from.
Can that be done?

3)
Have I made a mistake by going with AMD instead of INTEL for a gaming system?
If not, then why? :-(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WKjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 1:40am
Atomic,
 
VRM & chipset cooling is an oversight of many MB makers. BUT if your CPU throttles, it triggered its lifeline to keep its temp. down and save your chip! It is advisable NOT to turn off APM, which fortunately doesn't in your case. This is CPU-wise. MB-/VRM-wise there is no such safeguard and you may damage your board permanently, at least age your components faster, each time you overheat them.
 
Please accept the fact, that there is no guarantee of how much (or at all) you can OC any component and definetly the manufacturer has nothing to do with it, as OC'ing voids your warranty in most cases!
Think of that: It's like a car that redlines between 7000 and 8000 rpm. Just because its there, the maker does not suggest, support or is liable if you over-rev the engine. Overcoming the limiter is at your peril!
 
The next thing is, if you use a water-cooler, wo don't talk about enough air, but about air at all! There is no fan, passively cooling the surrounding components. These heatsinks are built to have passive cooling all the time. A distant case fan does not provide that.
As a consolation, I ran into the same mess some time ago, having bought two(!) of them, performing 15° wores than my air cooler...
I doubt whether AMD nor ASRock suggested a liquid cooler. They are some kind of press favourites for OC'ing, but you have learned that OC'ing is not in the mind of manufacturers. ;)
 
So much for that. Back to your issue.
 
Does it throttle even at default values? I didn't find that info yet.
 
Do you know it is the VRM temp. for sure?! What does HWMonitor say in idle and under load - are there any temp. values raising above 80° (60° for CPU, "package" or "core" temp.)? If so, cooling has to be better, regardless.
 
Originally posted by Atomic Atomic wrote:

Have I made a mistake by going with AMD instead of INTEL for a gaming system?
Well, no, there is nothing wrong with your CPU, isn't it!?
 
PS: If a (AMD) CPU is fully or nearly full loaded, it throttles, because temp. or power consumption is too high (if APM or another safeguard is active). This is normal behaviour. Practically a 50% load should keep clocks stable at max. (no turbo!).


Edited by WKjun - 19 Jan 2016 at 5:36pm
PC1: FX-9590@def|290 |16GB@2133|Sabertooth 990FX R2.0
PC2: FX-8320@4.5|290 |16GB@2133| "
PC3: FX-9590@def|280X|16GB@2133| "
PC4: FX-9370@def|280X|16GB@2133| "
PC5: FX-6300@4.6|7950|16GB@1866|990FX-UD3
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PetrolHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 2:59pm
Originally posted by Atomic Atomic wrote:

Hey Wardog,

If I am honest, that is a pretty big oversight by AsRock.
To design a motherboard titled as gaming and for this particular product not being able to handle a pre-set over clock included in the motherboard as one of it's features.
Just because the heat sink which covers the VRM's (The one with the Killer logo), is so poorly designed it is critically overheating and causing the system to loose stability.


Those preset overclock settings are not really guaranteed to work, since each CPU and combination of components is basically unique. The system those settings were determined on may he able to handle them, but your particular CPU may, for example, need more voltage to stay stable. The same goes for cooling; if your cooling is not arranged in the exact same manner that was used for obtaining those settings, you may need to put in some extra effort.

Quote
Am I wrong in saying that Asus or Gigabyte DO NOT have these same problems?



Yes. Some of their boards may have stronger VRM sections, but water cooling combined with an overclock pretty much always necessitates the use of a spot fan - depending on the CPU and OC, of course.

Quote
3)
Have I made a mistake by going with AMD instead of INTEL for a gaming system?
If not, then why? :-(


Not really. Generally speaking your GPU is the most important component in your rig when it comes to gaming. A stock FX-6300 should be plenty for most games and GPUs, although some games (like Crysis 3) could benefit from an FX-8xxx CPU or a more powerful Intel CPU, and if you had an SLI setup you might actually see the CPU bottleneck the GPUs at 1080p.

Intel's CPUs do have an advantage in performance (and power usage) at the moment, but that doesn't directly make AMD a bad choice for gaming. They provide decent bang for buck, especially when ovwrclocked. We just need to find you the best settings for your system.

Ryzen 5 1500X, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 2x8 GB G.Skill Trident Z 3466CL16, Sapphire Pulse RX Vega56 8G HBM2, Corsair RM550x, Samsung 960 EVO SSD (NVMe) 250GB, Samsung 850 EVO SSD 500 GB, Windows 10 64-bit
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wardog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 5:07pm
Atomic, I can't add anything to that which WKjun and PetrolHead have already replied.

Every manufacturer that I know, when pressed, will say that when water-cooling is used an additional source of air flow MUST be accounted to blow over the VRM sink/section. I'm sorry, but that's common knowledge, OC'ing or running at stock, that must be adhered to.

There's no getting around it. The VRMs need cooled. That's not by design, but by necessity.


Edited by wardog - 19 Jan 2016 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PetrolHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 11:27am
Atomic, while you figure out how to keep your VRM cool, you could maybe try to find out what you can get out of your CPU at stock voltages. Increasing the clock speed alone has a smaller effect on power draw than increasing voltage, which should make life easier for the VRM. Just take your time with it and you should see warning signs before your rig is in any real danger of getting damaged:

Note: You may want to check you have Turbo Core, Cool'n'Quiet etc. disabled. Since we are just finding the maximum stock voltage clock speed, I personally don't think having those enabled matters much. It's when you go for maximum OC that you need maximum control over your system parameters, but for now all you really need is CPU-Z, HWMonitor and Prime95.

1. Start with stock settings and run Prime95 blend on all cores for about 20-30 minutes with HWMonitor running as well. This will give you baseline temperatures and show you how much Vcore and the clock speeds fluctuate (if at all) when loaded.
2. Increase the CPU clock speed multiplier by 0.5 (or the clock speed by 100 MHz), check with CPU-Z that the setting has stuck and run Prime95 again on all cores for 20-30 minutes while monitoring everything on HWMonitor. If temperatures stay below 60 C (CPU/package) and 70 C (socket/CPUTIN most likely) and no workers are dropped, repeat this step.
3a. At some point one or more workers will stop before 20-30 minutes has passed. This means the system is unstable and will (usually) need more Vcore to function at this clock speed. Lower the clock speed by 100 Mhz and run Prime95 blend on all cores for two hours. If workers are dropped, you need to lower the clock speed again. If no workers are dropped, you have reached what some people consider reasonable stability. Personally I would suggest running Prime95 for at least 4 hours, preferably 8.
3b. If the temperatures reach 60 C/70 C, you've pretty much reached your limits with the current cooling. If Prime95 is still running and the temperatures are running, stop the test immediately. I'm not expecting heat to be an issue for the CPU itself, but your socket temps may be high due that water cooling system. Also, if you notice clock speeds dropping or cores not being under 100% load while running Prime95, that's likely your VRM throttling and you need to stop the test and back off with the OC. Note that there will be short periods of time between tests that the CPU may not be under 100% load, so before you panic, make sure that the core(s) in question are actually in the middle of a test.

All of this at your own risk, naturally. ;) It's hard to say what your maximum OC at stock Vcore (1.35 V, I think) will be. The 3.8 GHz p state has a Vcore of 1.4125 V seems high considering the increase in clock speed is under 10%. I wouldn't be surprised if you could hit that at stock voltage, especially if the water cooler is keeping the CPU cool.
Ryzen 5 1500X, ASRock AB350M Pro4, 2x8 GB G.Skill Trident Z 3466CL16, Sapphire Pulse RX Vega56 8G HBM2, Corsair RM550x, Samsung 960 EVO SSD (NVMe) 250GB, Samsung 850 EVO SSD 500 GB, Windows 10 64-bit
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