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AsRock Fatality 990FX (CPU Throttling)

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Atomic View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 11:06pm
Hi Guys,

(I'm from Australia but hopefully I can still post here and maybe someone can help me).

I have built a new system around your AMD 990 FX Fatality Chipset.
The motherboard looks good with all the features you have on there.
However my issue has been with the AMD FX-6300 (95 Watt) CPU
I have noticed using programs like CPU-Z and Windows 10 "Task Manager".
Under heavy load using 3D Mark or FurMark to test stability of the system.
The multiplier on the CPU fluctuates from between 7 and 22.5 times on the CPU bus speed multiplier.
I understand that with the AMD cool n quiet and other BIOS features the mother board throttles and tries to conserve the power.
However when the CPU is under full load the speed of the CPU changes from 1,000 Mhz to 3,700 Mhz. (This shouldn't happen under stress load...it should stay the same).

Also in further testing I have also disabled the AMD Cool and Quiet, AMD Power Saving modes etc....and retested and the same issue still appears.

Is there a hidden screen in the BIOS where I change the Load Line Control or to disable APM?

On another note I have 2 x 8 Gb sticks of Corsair Vengence Pro 2400 RAM which I can't get to boot at the nominated speed.
The memory needs to be down clocked to around 1,000Mhz...which I think is a joke.
It says your motherboard supports DDR3 2450 OC RAM even.

I am also Interested in Over-clocking the AMD CPU.
I bought the Fatality motherboard because I believed this was the best one for AMD chips on the market.

What is the best way for me to push a safe and stable over-clock without causing instability?

I would also like to know if there is a new BIOS which will be released for this motherboard soon?
(Will their be any performance or over-clocking enhancements for this new upcoming BIOS revision?)


Edited by Atomic - 11 Jan 2016 at 11:10pm
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WKjun View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WKjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2016 at 6:34pm
Hello! Smile
 
If Cool'n'Quiet is active, it saves energy by lowering the multiplier / clock frequency if not under load.
Most processors nowadays additionally have a Turbo Mode. It raises the clock frequencies of some cores above the basic frequency for a certain time, if certain conditions take place, like power consumption, temperature and load.
 
The FX-6300 has a base clock of 3.5 GHz, while Turbo is 4.1 GHz. Idle clock (cool'n'quiet) is somewhere between 1.0 and 1.5 GHz. Keep in mind, that there may be several steps between them. Turbo may get active for just one or two cores. If fully loaded (i.e. prime95) at all 6 cores, the frequency cannot exceed 3.5 GHz and further might drop to around 3.0 GHz for all cores, to stay within power limits and/or 60° C. This safety function can (but shouldn't) be deactivated by disabling APM (AMD Power Management). I think, there is no practical use for that, because no application would utilize or need 6 cores fully loaded.
 
The system works best / as intended if:
  • Turbo Core
  • APM
  • CnQ
  • C6 Mode
is ENABLED! (AUTO sometimes does not enable it)
 
 
What do you mean by:
 
"However when the CPU is under full load the speed of the CPU changes from 1,000 Mhz to 3,700 Mhz. (This shouldn't happen under stress load...it should stay the same)."
 
As written above, loading all cores fully is good for stresstesting it, but has not practical use and causes the core frequencies to drop.
 
I don't know of any hidden screens. There are some on Gigabyte boards, though.
Usually no maker gives hints of upcoming BIOS updates, sorry. Have you looked at the product site for updates?
 
Officially the CPU supports DDR3-1866. I personally never had problems with DDR3-2133, at least not with AMD Radeon and Crucial/Micron RAM. To go obove 2133, or theoretically 2200 MHz, you have to OC the CPU-NB (CPU-Northbridge, the integrated memory controller) to at least that frequency. 2400 in your case. Getting that stable is tricky and not worth the trouble. Even a prime-stable CPU-NB OC can cause strange effects in Windows or games. Either way, the performance of FX CPUs does not scale well with memory clock. If you have 1866 or 2133, go with it.
The only thing you may optimize are memory timings. Yours should be CL11-13-13-31, if I am correct. Auto mode detects it correctly. So, using them at lower frequencies instead of 2400, the timings can be detected/set lower. Good modules have memory profiles programmed in (SPD) and may be accessed through XMP / AMP option in BIOS. If just the 2400 profile shows up, but you want to use 2133, then consult CPU-Z or AMD Overdrive for additional RAM timing tables for 2133, so you can set the values manually. I suspect them to be CL10-12-12-28 or so.
However, there is never a guarantee that certain modules work with your MB and CPU. Consult the QVL (Qualified Vendors List) for this board, to see if your modules were tested. I generally don't recommend modules with such oversized and useless heatsinks that prevents you from using most bigger CPU coolers...
 
As for that Fatality branding, come on, it's just a marketing gimmick... although there is no reason to think this was not a good choice. But I don't have it and can't tell.
 
If you are an absolute beginner in the OC field, this is a completely different matter and exceeds my time, sorry. But feel free to look around the Web for some the many FX OC guides! Wink
 
Ask again, if something is unclear.
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Atomic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2016 at 6:41pm
Hi WKjun,

 

I have gone over a few trouble shooting areas in-case they might have been causing issues for me.

I have listed them in the headings below.

However as you stated, the Turbo Boost for the Vishera FX-6300 CPU is 4.1 GHz under load.

The CPU only Boosts to CPU speed of 3.8 GHz instead of 4.1 Ghz.

I have reset the UEFI BIOS to defaults and everything is back on default settings. However this hasn't changed anything.



CPU Cooling:

 

The heat sink I have installed onto the AMD CPU is an after market cooler from Deep Cool.

This is a sealed water cooling unit.

It is making good contact on the CPU and is tightly held on.

So I don?t see this being a problem.

I also have several case fans inside which are pushing fresh air inside to cool the components.

 

AMD CPU FX-6300 (Vishera 95 Watt): Does NOT turbo boost to from idle 3.5Ghz to 4.1Ghz as it should be:

 

I reset the UEFI BIOS back to factory default when I run a benchmark like FURMARK or 3D MARK.

The CPU hovers between 3.5 and 3.8GHz and is constantly fluctuating even when the CPU is put under load.

Now my understanding is when the CPU is under load then the CPU will boost to 4.1Ghz and stay there until the stress testing is finished.

Then when idle or if you quit the program then it will throttle down to 3.5Ghz...none of this is happening.

The multiplier is switching from

 

RAM Corsair 2400 Vengence Pro DDR3:

 

After having reset the BIOS back to FACTORY DEFAULT.

The RAM automatically detects it?s speed and runs it at maximum.

I have found the motherboard automatically runs it at only 1300Mhz and not the 2400Mhz that it should be.

If I try to run the RAM manually to 2400 then the system doesn?t boot and fails to give me a screen.

If I run the RAM at a slower speed like 2000 or 1866 then it boots and seems to be OK.

Also to let you know that when I select the XMP 1 for the RAM modules the motherboard doesn?t boot after saving the changes.

 

Overclocking:

 

Now I have tried to manually do some overclocking on the motherboard as is provided in the UEFI BIOS:

I disabled Cool and Quiet, AMD Power Saving, Spread Spectrum, Thermal Throttling etc.

 

Then I boot into windows and look at a program called CPU-Z for example and I can see the multiplier changing between 17 to 19 times multiplier for the Core CPU Clock of 200Mhz.

I?ve noticed also that the CPU Core Voltage is alternating between 2.5v and 3.0v.

Looks like the North Bridge chipset on the motherboard isn?t providing a stable current to the CPU which is causing the CPU frequency to not remain %100 stable.

Even after I turn off all the power saving features and anything else that might change the CPU clock speed or multiplier.

The CPU performs erratically.

I have bought a Corsair 1000W PSU so power wouldn?t be the issue here.

 

I am at a loss and I don?t know what to do.

I feel it?s the motherboard NOT providing enough stable current to the CPU and the RAM not being recognised properly which is causing issues and major headaches for me.

I am honestly feeling very frustrated after all this and I don?t know what else to do.

 

I look forward to your reply.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WKjun Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2016 at 8:13pm
Hi Atomic!
 
Okay, now I understand your frequency troubles. To me it sounds like either a BIOS problem (bug or not the latest one) or a monitoring issue (CPU-Z), if your CPU cooling performance is good enough. I know, water cooler sounds good, but I've gone through a misery with my one some time ago. It was supposed to be the best one and was 15° warmer than my, and I think the best air cooler, Noctua NH-D14(/D15).
The next disadvantage is, that the Chipset and VRMs (voltage regulator modules near the CPU socket) are not being cooled passively, like through a regular top-blow cooler. Case fans by itself are not sufficient cooling for hot mainboard VRMs! Your 95W TDP CPU is not that critical, but I don't know of the realization of the cooling solution build into this board and its longevity.
Bottom line, I scrapped my water cooler. But yours may be better now! However, as long as you don't know your temperatures, it may or may not be the cause.
 
Please try HWMonitor (http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/hwmonitor/hwmonitor_1.28.zip) to doublecheck the frequencies seen at CPU-Z and have a look at your CPU temperature ("core temp" favored to "package temp", names may vary). You have a comfortable view there that shows the highest and lowest frequency measured per core. If no app is running in background, turbo can be triggered easily by running prime95 @ 1 or 2 threads for some seconds while monitoring with HWMonitor.
If the CPU temperature is too high, it may cause a turbo frequency lower than expected or none at all.
 
Lots of boards have some necessary features deactivated at default. Enable the settings I've suggested in my last post to ensure Turbo can run reliably.
 
To make one thing clear about the Turbo mode: It just works within these certain parameters and its occurrence is rather underwhelming. There is not much to be gained by using it. Especially if 3 or more of your cores are being utilized, it may almost never be triggered. Furthermore, Windows loadbalances tasks to all cores. So, if you do not lock an app to one core (i.e. Task Manager) then the app jumps through the cores. Turbo may be triggered and disabled fast than CPU-Z can monitor in that case. Therefore I recommend HWMonitor instead.
 
About the XMP profile, it is just as I thought. You get one profile read out and that's the 2400 one which does not work, because either the CPU-NB does not get OC'ed correctly or the board is just not compatible to your modules and speed in combination. To be honest, I had a painstaking journey with the 970 Performance (also "Fatality") board, defect-wise and RAM-setting-wise, and gave it back. There is a detailed thread in this forum of mine about that. Setting up the RAM was just horrible.
However, stay at 2133 and lower timings manually to my guessed values above. Remember to raise DRAM Voltage from 1.5 to 1.65V, as the 2400 profile would do. Then run prime for some hours in blend mode (2 threads are sufficient) to ensure system stability.
 
If you like, read through my thread of misery with my board, partly setting up RAM correctly.
 
If you really have the latest official ASRock BIOS installed, you may write an official ASRock Support Ticket. But don't expect an answer within a month or so... Angry
 
As for the OC: If the LLC (Load Line Calibration) value is set incorrectly (manually or automatically), it causes erratic voltage and temperature fluctuations. You can never trust automatic settings, but leave settings alone (on Auto) if you don't understand them. That's my wisdom for you.
Be warned, that wrong settings may end in a dead system and worse, loss of warranty! I know, you have to start somewhere if you want to learn about OC'ing, but it is risky.
 
By the way, current / its stability is not provided by the chipset but by the VRMs and power supply. Further, it is impossible that you have 2.5-3.0V lying on your CPU Core. Anything above 1.45V is critical! 1.6V can be named deadly, so please be cautious if you have not the skills or tools to do OC right. No offense, I just want your system to live on! :)


Edited by WKjun - 12 Jan 2016 at 8:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2016 at 9:17pm
Atomic, what you're seeing Turbo MHz wise is just how the 6300 is designed to function.

There are two "steps' it will employ while in Turbo mode.

Level 2 is 3800MHz on all cores.

Level 1 is 4100MHz on only two cores.

Prime loads all cores so 3800MHz is correct for running all 6 cores.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-FX-Series%20FX-6300.html
Originally posted by Atomic Atomic wrote:


I have found the motherboard automatically runs it at only 1300Mhz and not the 2400Mhz that it should be.


This how most new memory is designed to function. How happy would you be were you to simply put the 2400MHz memory in place and have your computer not boot because the board and or CPU can not run at 2400MHz. Say Hallelujah! to JEDEC Standards that it runs the first time albeit at 1300MHz.

It''s you the end user that must enter the BIOS and make changes to your memory settings to get it running at or near the 2400MHz, CPU dependent.

I would suggest you search the internet for a 990FX overclocking guide. The questions you ask here have serious consequences if you are to just go off willy nilly changing BIOS options.

As WKjun hinted at, I won't beat around the bush in telling you you need to understand more than  you do now before your overclocking expedition begins otherwise you're going to destroy what you have in front of you. And with all due respect I say that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atomic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 12:38am
Hey WKjun and Wardog,

Thanks so much for taking the time to read my post and putting in a very meaty response in reply.
In addition to my responses above, I have been doing a little more digging regarding reviews for my motherboard the AMD Fatality 990 FX.

Other people have also mentioned that the AsRock VRM's are having issues.
Both from an insufficient cooling of the VRM chips perspective and also the potential BUG in the BIOS which needs to be fixed by AsRock.

Also someone mentioned an issue with big VDroop, about 0.8v.
(I'm not sure exactly how this would affect over-clocking stability, so if anyone can provide insight that would be helpful). ???

The main reason I bought this AsRock motherboard was to over-clock it with the provided AsRock tools.
I set it manually in the BIOS to the 4.33GHz range or 250MHz on the CPU Core Frequency.
Then I disable the Cool and Quiet, Thermal Throttling, Spread Spectrum and Turbo boost.

I want to get the CPU to run at 100% speed 24/7 without downclocking.
I check the BIOS settings and it says "disabled" for all those options.

BUT when I go into Windows I see the multiplier still fluctuating from anything from 1.0GHz all the way up to 4.3GHz. (I don't want this, I want to get the frequency to remain at 4.3GHz all the time).
As when I am gaming I can see very clearly when it goes from 4.3GHz down to 1.0GHz, I am getting very noticeable lag and skipping in the game at that very moment.

For the sake of argument, even when I reset the BIOS to factory default.
Nothing is changed, I just save the default settings and load Windows 10.
I have NEVER once seen the CPU Core Speed go up to the 4.1 Turbo boost for the FX-6300 CPU.

Even if I try to run FurMark, Prime 95, Crysis 3, GTA 5, Counter Strike Global Offensive and many other games or Benchmarks.
(I would imagine at least 2 of the Cores would be stressed very heavily and cause the CPU to Turbo clock, at least several times during the play test).

I used Speed Fan, HWMonitor, AMD Overdrive but NONE of these monitoring applications show a CPU Core Frequency reading of 4.1 GHz. On default AsRock BIOS settings.

I read also that the VRM's that Asus use are much better then the competition as they are a more advanced design. More efficient and precise apparently.

Supposably the ASUS VRM's 6+2 are better then other competitors 8+2 VRM Phase.

Is this true?
Is Asus a better motherboard?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 1:02am
What Fatal1ty 990FX board DO you have? There are a few.

As to whether or not the VRMs can't handle the FX-6300, let me assure they can and do. Without issue on any of the 990FX boards ASRock produces. I've had my FX-8150 hog on them all and what you're attempting at/in a NON-overclocked setting(ie: beyond any stock Turbo freq) with an FX-6300 should not present any problem at all. Breeze right along it should.

Please, list out all your components with make and model number, including the PSU and kindly include the PSU's age. That way we here can know what you're dealing with parts wise. ie: Help us help you.

Also, w/o re-reading the thread, what BIOS revision is your board running now?


Edited by wardog - 13 Jan 2016 at 1:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 2:20am
@ Atomic

Knowing what you don't yet I cannot offer any more help till I have what components your system is made up of.

And then I'll only point you in the general direction to 4.3GHz. But w/o knowing your system I'll be damned to say so and later have you pointing fingers at me for trashing YOUR computer.

I trust you undersstand from where I come when I say that.


And please, do not set the Bus Speed to 250. That's NOT the CORRECT way and in fact may harm your motherboard and or CPU in doing so. Reading what someone blah blah did with their system on the internet will most likely not be functional on your system. Every system is different unless you have the EXACT everything that that particular poster has, and even the it may not work on yours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PetrolHead Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 11:01am
^Seconded.

Atomic, in your first post you asked "What is the best way for me to push a safe and stable over-clock without causing instability?". The answer: Slow and steady. Setting your CPU to run @ roughly 4.3 GHz on all cores is not that. First of all, you CPU seizes being a 95 W TDP CPU. It may cause your socket and VRM section to run way too hot due to your choice of CPU cooling. Second, it will in all likelihood not be stable on stock voltages (you didn't mention changing voltages). When overclocking you should slowly work your way up in both clock frequency and voltage (and possibly CPU-NB/HT frequency and voltage, if the system seems to demand it), checking your stability and temperatures under stress testing after each change you make (unless you know what you're doing). If you're unlucky in the silicon lottery, your CPU might not even be able to do 4.3 GHz on all six cores on any reasonable Vcore, so that's definitely not the point where you should start.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 2:40pm
It looks like all our resident AMD gurus are chiming in here, feel free to ask questions if you are unsure about anything. Overclocking is a great way to eek more performance from your system but if done wrong it can be catastrophic. You are in good hands Thumbs Up
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