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Thunderbolt 4 AIC + 2 GPUs

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korasc View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Jun 2023 at 10:56pm
Hi,

I'm trying to build a AMD-based setup with two graphic cards and the thunderbolt expension card.

It seem to me that the only two motherboard that could fit the idea would be the X670E PG Lightning or B650 LiveMixer.

Howerver, the X670E PG Lightning's manual specify that the third PCIe x16 slot only support x1. So it leaves only the B650 LiveMixer.

The B650 LiveMixer's manual detailed a couple of things:
- The Thunderbolt??AIC card should be installed on the PCIE2 slot
- PCIE3 (PCIe 4.0 x16 slot) is used for PCIe x4 lane width graphics cards
- PCIE3 (PCIe 4.0 x16 slot) is used through a AMD PROM21 PCIe Gen4 x4 BUS chipset
- Two Graphics Cards in CrossFire??Mode should use PCIE1 and PCIE2 slots

I don't think the CrossFire configuration matters here.
Can I use the Thunderbolt on the PCIE3 and if so, would it impact performance ?
Can I use a graphic card on the PCIE3 and if so, would it impact performance ?

I someone has a feedback on this, I would be glad to know.

https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B650%20LiveMixer/Specification.asp#Manual
https://pg.asrock.com/mb/AMD/X670E%20PG%20Lightning/index.asp#Manual
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eccential View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eccential Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2023 at 12:42am
I'd guess LiveMixer is the better choice.

The first two PCIe slots are connected directly to the CPU (one x16 and one x4).
My guess is that the Thunderbolt card requires direct PCIe connection to the CPU, based on the explicit mention in the user manual. I don't know anything about the Thunderbolt expansion card, though.

Third PCIe slot is connected to the chipset, which means any interaction to the CPU will share the interface with all other chipset functions. Note chipset is connected to the CPU through a x4 link, and so all chipset functions that need to talk to the CPU (USB, SATA, etc.) will go through this shared x4 link.

It will add a slight latency also, since it needs go through the chipset.

Depending on what you're trying to use the GPU for, it might matter, or it might not. The fact that the whole interface is just x4 will matter more, again depending on workload. If you need to move a lot of data through the link, then the GPU will be bottlenecked. But it's still way better than using an x1 link.

I don't think the additional latency will matter much for most GPU workloads, so I don't think it'd matter that much if you use the 2nd PCIe slot (direct to CPU) or 3rd PCIe slot (through chipset).

But if the thunderbolt card can use the 3rd slot, you can maybe experiment with it.

Ryzen 7000-series CPU has total of 28 PCIe lanes, 4 of which will connect to the chipset, leaving 24 (edit fixed bad math LOL) lanes for user use. The usual distribution is:
x16 for the GPU slot.
x4 for the fastest m.2 NVMe slot.
And then the rest x4 are either split (e.g. PG Lightning) or given its own slot (e.g. LiveMixer).

I do wonder why nobody makes a board with x8 slots instead, like:
x8
x8
x4 (m.2 NVMe)
x4


Edited by eccential - 27 Jun 2023 at 3:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SerchTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2023 at 2:40am
I don't doubt that Thunderbolt 4 AIC + 2 GPUs can be supported and recognized in X670E PG Lightning or B650 LiveMixer but both systems have not been designed for high demand of PCIE lanes.

It doesn't matter AMD or Intel, both have separated the Desktop and Workstation segments in the number of PCIE lanes offered in their CPUs, IMO a big mistake.

In other words:

- From enthusiasm I would say yes, try that setup and I'm sure you'll enjoy the process.

- From consistency, I would tell you to forget about the Desktop segment and buy a CPU that offers a minimum of 48 PCIE lanes.


Good luck whatever your decision, it will be a pleasure to hear your experiences
X399 Taichi (4.03)
Threadripper 2950X
DDR4 2 x HX432C16FB3K2/32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eccential Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2023 at 3:46am
I just found out Asrock X670E Taichi does have two x16 slots that can be configured as x16/x0 or x8/x8 (directly to CPU). It does NOT have any more PCIe slots, but it has built-in USB4. I'm assuming it's using some Intel chip for the USB4 functionality, but I'm not sure. It says it's 40Gb/s capable, which matches Thunderbolt 4 AIC. It does say that DisplayPort Alt Mode through the USB-C connector will only work for iGPU.

I've no idea what your use goal is, but maybe X670E Taichi, with built-in USB4, is an option for you. This way, you can get a more balanced x8/x8 lanes to two GPUs, directly from the CPU.
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