ASRock.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > OverClocking(OC) Zone > OC Technical Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - z170 Extreme 7+ and Trident z 3200 o/c
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

z170 Extreme 7+ and Trident z 3200 o/c

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: z170 Extreme 7+ and Trident z 3200 o/c
    Posted: 23 May 2016 at 8:27am
I have a pair of F4-3200C16D-16GTZ modules in the second and fourth slots. No issues running the XMP profile, but 3466 causes  errors in Prime95 mixed mode.
On another note in AUTO and fixed 1.350v the BIOS reports 1.367v!

I see one site using  1.42 to achieve 3466 and 3600 but that seems really high.

An advice on what BIOS setting I should be tweaking to o/c these memory modules besides DRAM voltage?

BTW I've tried BIOS 2.6 and 3.0,...2.6 seems a little better and cpu is at 4.6 GHz.
Back to Top
parsec View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 04 May 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4996
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 9:42am
If you check the Memory Support List for our board (you know I have one too, right?), you can find at the top of that page this note:

Note3: For 2pcs (DS), please use A1 and B1 slot.

Your G.SKILL F4-3200C16D-16GTZ TridentZ memory is a Double Sided (DS) type of DIMM, so you should try the A1 and B1 slots. I don't have any DS memory, so I've never tried this. I'd like to know how it works for you.

I was ready to say, clear the UEFI/BIOS after moving the memory to the A1 and B2 slots, but then I remembered you use two 950 Pros in RAID 0, and we both know what happens if you do that. Safe to try it without clearing the UEFI, but you might be stuck doing that. Ouch

I am using G.SKILL F4-3200C16-8GTZB TridentZ memory, which is 2 x 4GB DIMMs, Single Sided (SS.) HWiNFO64 shows a temperature reading for this memory. Nice warm day today, the memory is reading at 88° F. I wonder what yours is? Wink

I've noticed a difference between the DRAM Voltage setting value, and the apparent actual value, as shown in the UEFI H/W Monitor screen, and in a monitoring program like HWiNFO64. I also get a reading of 1.367V for a setting of 1.350V. Running at 3200, I can set the DRAM Voltage to 1.330V, resulting at a reading of 1.352V. I've used this memory at 3200 below 1.350V, a setting of 1.320V shows as 1.344V.

Your DS memory many need more voltage than mine, so don't think you can reduce it and get the same results as I do.

Don't forget the basic reality known as the "silicon lottery", the differences in CPUs depending upon where they were cut from the large production processor die. Your CPU's memory controller may be better or worse than mine.

What are the values for VCCIO and VCCSA voltages you have now? The XMP profile, or Auto settings in the UEFI resulted in some (seemingly) high values for these voltages. VCCIO of 1.150V (reading of 1.176V), and VCCSA of 1.250V (reading of 1.280V), is what I get. These values may be needed to allow the memory to work with boards and processors of different quality. The concept (reality) of the silicon lottery really needs to be understood better by PC builders

I am able to reduce both of these voltages with the memory at 3200. VCCSA is set to 1.140V (reading of 1.168V), VCCIO is set to 1.100V (reading of 1.128V.) Again, you may or may not be able to use these voltages with your DS memory.

I've had my memory at 3600, DRAM Voltage set to 1.350V, with VCCSA and VCCIO set to 1.250V and 1.150V, respectively.

My other settings for 3600 are all timings on Auto, and MRC Fast Boot set to Disabled, to allow memory training to occur during POST. If you have the Fast Boot option set to anything besides Disabled, set it to Disabled to insure memory training occurs. I think I could not set MRC Fast Boot back to Enabled at 3600, after several POSTs. I can set MRC Fast Boot to Enabled, and Fast Boot to Ultra Fast, at 3200.

I was reading a thread recently about extreme over clocking of DDR4 memory. Those guys don't blink at using 1.5V, which is the Intel absolute maximum. Some of them go beyond that voltage, but we are talking ~4000 on Skylake and ~3200+ on X99 boards. So ~1.4V is not crazy, but the VCCSA and VCCIO voltages are almost as important as the DRAM Voltage.

I'm not a memory OC expert at all, this is the basic stuff, tweaking your timings comes later.






Back to Top
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 10:51am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

If you check the Memory Support List for our board (you know I have one too, right?), you can find at the top of that page this note:

Note3: For 2pcs (DS), please use A1 and B1 slot.
 
Your G.SKILL F4-3200C16D-16GTZ TridentZ memory is a Double Sided (DS) type of DIMM, so you should try the A1 and B1 slots. I don't have any DS memory, so I've never tried this. I'd like to know how it works for you.
>Yeah I saw that and tried the A1 and B1 and it worked there too, but I got to reading the manual for the umpteen time and moved them to its recommended slots :( Live and learn.

I was ready to say, clear the UEFI/BIOS after moving the memory to the A1 and B2 slots, but then I remembered you use two 950 Pros in RAID 0, and we both know what happens if you do that. Safe to try it without clearing the UEFI, but you might be stuck doing that. Ouch
>Don't get me going on clearing CMOS, switching BIOSes  or removing power from this board Dead I've finally got it feeling solid and I'm not touching it,...I miss racing. We really need an RST update to 14.8 Clap

I am using G.SKILL F4-3200C16-8GTZB TridentZ memory, which is 2 x 4GB DIMMs, Single Sided (SS.) HWiNFO64 shows a temperature reading for this memory. Nice warm day today, the memory is reading at 88° F. I wonder what yours is? Wink
>83 and 85! Which I thought was much cooler at 28.3 and 29.5 Celsius.

I've noticed a difference between the DRAM Voltage setting value, and the apparent actual value, as shown in the UEFI H/W Monitor screen, and in a monitoring program like HWiNFO64. I also get a reading of 1.367V for a setting of 1.350V. Running at 3200, I can set the DRAM Voltage to 1.330V, resulting at a reading of 1.352V. I've used this memory at 3200 below 1.350V, a setting of 1.320V shows as 1.344V.

Your DS memory many need more voltage than mine, so don't think you can reduce it and get the same results as I do.

Don't forget the basic reality known as the "silicon lottery", the differences in CPUs depending upon where they were cut from the large production processor die. Your CPU's memory controller may be better or worse than mine.

What are the values for VCCIO and VCCSA voltages you have now? The XMP profile, or Auto settings in the UEFI resulted in some (seemingly) high values for these voltages. VCCIO of 1.150V (reading of 1.176V), and VCCSA of 1.250V (reading of 1.280V), is what I get. These values may be needed to allow the memory to work with boards and processors of different quality. The concept (reality) of the silicon lottery really needs to be understood better by PC builders

I am able to reduce both of these voltages with the memory at 3200. VCCSA is set to 1.140V (reading of 1.168V), VCCIO is set to 1.100V (reading of 1.128V.) Again, you may or may not be able to use these voltages with your DS memory.

I've had my memory at 3600, DRAM Voltage set to 1.350V, with VCCSA and VCCIO set to 1.250V and 1.150V, respectively.
>I 'll get these for you,...

My other settings for 3600 are all timings on Auto, and MRC Fast Boot set to Disabled, to allow memory training to occur during POST. If you have the Fast Boot option set to anything besides Disabled, set it to Disabled to insure memory training occurs. I think I could not set MRC Fast Boot back to Enabled at 3600, after several POSTs. I can set MRC Fast Boot to Enabled, and Fast Boot to Ultra Fast, at 3200.
>Hmmm, MRC to disabled may be the trick to getting to 3600 stable! Same here I can run FAST and ULTRA at 3200,...haven't tried it at 3600, but I did have MRC on at 3466 and it would boot and run through Realbench but if I leave Prime95 running for over an hour I would lose a cpu core :( And when I saw what the reporting voltage was I did not want to go there.

I was reading a thread recently about extreme over clocking of DDR4 memory. Those guys don't blink at using 1.5V, which is the Intel absolute maximum. Some of them go beyond that voltage, but we are talking ~4000 on Skylake and ~3200+ on X99 boards. So ~1.4V is not crazy, but the VCCSA and VCCIO voltages are almost as important as the DRAM Voltage.
>Yeah,...1.42v is a long way away from 1.350v but we've seen that even the cpus can take allot of volts if they have good cooling and survive.

I'm not a memory OC expert at all, this is the basic stuff, tweaking your timings comes later.
> Wish me luck moving the DIMMs :)




Edited by clubfoot - 23 May 2016 at 10:52am
Back to Top
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2016 at 11:25am
Moved the DIMMs to A1 and B1 and turned off MRC,...no issues on XMP 3200.

DRAM AUTO 1.350v = 1.368v
VCCIO AUTO 1.150v = 1.184v
VCCSA AUTO 1.250v = 1.272v

Which BIOS are you using 2.6 or 3.0?



Edited by clubfoot - 23 May 2016 at 11:10pm
Back to Top
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 7:47am
Using BIOS 2.6

Using A1 & B1 3466 at AUTO voltages ram temps during Prime95 blend 109F & 112F and passes Realbench 2.34,...no issues. 
Back to Top
parsec View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 04 May 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4996
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 11:46am
I'm using UEFI version 3.00.

Really for no other reason than I feel I should try each UEFI version for the ASRock boards I have to see how they are, functionally. Nothing wrong with 2.60 except... well, as its description states... Angry

Well, 3466 was easy enough, right? Some speeds like 3466, I believe, are more difficult to use. I bet you can get 3600 working as I did.

Your VCCSA and VCCIO voltages are almost identical to mine. You could try reducing them which might reduce the CPU temps a bit. I wonder if that would affect the DRAM temps?

Are those the DRAM temperatures during Prime95? Interesting they are that high, not that I really know better.

Now you've got me wanting 3600 again, gotta try that, I'll be back... Wink

Back to Top
parsec View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 04 May 2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4996
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2016 at 1:21pm
Back at 3600, no problem, first try:



Using Auto for all timings results in the same values for 3200.

My TridentZ memory has the cheaper Samsung "B die" memory chips, as far as I know. You should be able to get there with yours, unless the DS DIMMs are more difficult to get stable at higher speeds. There are zero DS DIMMs in the Memory Support list above 3400, but you've got that beat already!

HWiNFO should tell you what memory chips you have in that kit. Not in the monitoring screen, but in the system information screen, just click on the Memory entry in the device listing tree on the left. I'd be surprised if they are not Samsung.

The Number of Ranks value should be two for your memory, which is shown on the memory information display.
Back to Top
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 12:21am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

I'm using UEFI version 3.00.

Really for no other reason than I feel I should try each UEFI version for the ASRock boards I have to see how they are, functionally. Nothing wrong with 2.60 except... well, as its description states... Angry
> Long story: I have an issue with the A BIOS chip that the B chip does not have with installing windows 10 rst driver and restoring an image. I'm not sure if it's the mb switch or the A chip itself but I've requested a replacement. Our boards are very finicky, cold shutdown, taking out video cards (xFire), having both windows install and driver usb drives connected,...You touched on it in another post where you were helping another user with APCI I believe not being initialized at least once.

Well, 3466 was easy enough, right? Some speeds like 3466, I believe, are more difficult to use. I bet you can get 3600 working as I did.

Your VCCSA and VCCIO voltages are almost identical to mine. You could try reducing them which might reduce the CPU temps a bit. I wonder if that would affect the DRAM temps?
> I'll give this a shot next.

Are those the DRAM temperatures during Prime95? Interesting they are that high, not that I really know better.
>Yes,...during P Blend.

Now you've got me wanting 3600 again, gotta try that, I'll be back... Wink

Back to Top
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 12:37am
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Back at 3600, no problem, first try:

Using Auto for all timings results in the same values for 3200.

My TridentZ memory has the cheaper Samsung "B die" memory chips, as far as I know. You should be able to get there with yours, unless the DS DIMMs are more difficult to get stable at higher speeds. There are zero DS DIMMs in the Memory Support list above 3400, but you've got that beat already!

HWiNFO should tell you what memory chips you have in that kit. Not in the monitoring screen, but in the system information screen, just click on the Memory entry in the device listing tree on the left. I'd be surprised if they are not Samsung.

The Number of Ranks value should be two for your memory, which is shown on the memory information display.

It may be more difficult for me as my cpu is o/c to 4.6GHz with cache at 4200MHz. You were able to keep CAS at 16 in AUTO!?
I've got to try 3600 with lower volts Smile
 

Back to Top
clubfoot View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clubfoot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 May 2016 at 4:47am
No luck,...will not post successfully,...at least at auto volts. I have MCR off and even moved to BIOS 3.00. This config is very stable at 4.6 cpu and 3466 ram,...very happy and the board feels good and solid.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.