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Problems OC i7-5930K

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jmig View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Nov 2016 at 11:21pm
I am a casual overclocker.  By that I mean, I read online how to OC and then use the builtin features to OC. I do not try to go extreme. I want a goo solid stable platform. 

I have an i7-5930K on a X99X Killer MB, 16 GB DDR4 -2666 MHz Corsair Vengeance RAM, and a 1000 Watt Corsair PS running a flight simulator cockpit.  For graphics I have two GTX 970 cards running three monitors and a 1080p projector. Flight simulator software is very CPU intensive, so the more GHz the better. Besides the flight sim software the system is running several add-on programs that communicate with the main flight sim software to run the switches, gauges, etc.

 

My problem is that I cannot get the processor to overclock over 4.0GHz. I have tried the F-Streaming applet and the built-in OC settings within UEFI (Version P1.90).  If I go above 4.0GHz the system will not boot into Windows and sometimes not even go into the UEFI. I then have to change to BIOS B to boot and reflash BIOS A.

 

When overclocked at 4.2GHz the system will pass the Prime95 tests. The CPU temps have never gotten above 55C. It just won?t boot after shutting down.

 

Right now I have it using the Intel Tuning program with these settings:

CPU Cache Ratio ??32

 BCLK Freq            -- 24

BCLK/PCIE Ratio  -- 127.4

UEFI show the CPU running at 4.075GHz.

 

Do I just have a weak processor? Is there a way to get the speed to 4.2 to 4.5 GHz?  That would help the flight sim?s frames per second over heavy scenery areas.

 

Thanks,

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2016 at 12:02am
Originally posted by jmig jmig wrote:

I am a casual overclocker.  By that I mean, I read online how to OC and then use the builtin features to OC. I do not try to go extreme. I want a goo solid stable platform.


Stable means not particularly using the ez oc way out to oc it.

Originally posted by jmig jmig wrote:

Is there a way to get the speed to 4.2 to 4.5 GHz?


Again, study the Haswell-E OC'ing Guides of which there are many. Study, test(not copy) the steps on your system, and learn along the way while doing so. But as each system is very different don't simply copy someones settings to yours and expect it to be stable. Odds are it won't be.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Nov 2016 at 10:15am
Originally posted by jmig jmig wrote:

I am a casual overclocker.  By that I mean, I read online how to OC and then use the builtin features to OC. I do not try to go extreme. I want a goo solid stable platform. 

I have an i7-5930K on a X99X Killer MB, 16 GB DDR4 -2666 MHz Corsair Vengeance RAM, and a 1000 Watt Corsair PS running a flight simulator cockpit.  For graphics I have two GTX 970 cards running three monitors and a 1080p projector. Flight simulator software is very CPU intensive, so the more GHz the better. Besides the flight sim software the system is running several add-on programs that communicate with the main flight sim software to run the switches, gauges, etc.

 

My problem is that I cannot get the processor to overclock over 4.0GHz. I have tried the F-Streaming applet and the built-in OC settings within UEFI (Version P1.90).  If I go above 4.0GHz the system will not boot into Windows and sometimes not even go into the UEFI. I then have to change to BIOS B to boot and reflash BIOS A.

 

When overclocked at 4.2GHz the system will pass the Prime95 tests. The CPU temps have never gotten above 55C. It just won?�t boot after shutting down.

 

Right now I have it using the Intel Tuning program with these settings:

CPU Cache Ratio ??32

 BCLK Freq            -- 24

BCLK/PCIE Ratio  -- 127.4

UEFI show the CPU running at 4.075GHz.

 

Do I just have a weak processor? Is there a way to get the speed to 4.2 to 4.5 GHz?  That would help the flight sim?�s frames per second over heavy scenery areas.

 

Thanks,



You'll get some increase in FPS with a CPU over clock, but how much do you actually get going from stock clocks to ~4.075GHz? How much of an increase do you want or expect from a higher OC?

For a Haswell-E HEDT processor, over 4.2 GHz is the threshold of an extreme OC. You can't compare OC speeds between different processor families. Plus as you said, your processor simply may not be able to OC that high. For you processor family, 4.5GHz is an extreme OC, reaching that speed is not a given.

If you can pass Prime95 tests at 4.2, but cannot boot the PC with F-Stream set to a 4.0GHz OC, that does not make sense. Some basic information is missing here. You mentioned studying over clock so you should know the following.

You've mentioned your core multipliers and BCLK/PCIe ratio (more on BCLK in a bit) but nothing at all about your VCore. Any OC is dependent upon the VCore voltage level. As the OC increases, the VCore must increase with it in order to work. As the OC goes higher, the greater the need to increase the VCore and the Load Line Calibration (LLC) setting. Also, the CPU Vcore Voltage Mode option setting is important, what settings are you using for those options? Have you checked your VCore voltage?

About your BCLK (Base Clock) setting of 127.4 MHz, the default setting is 100MHz. The BCLK setting affect the CPU speed and the memory speed. You seem to have adjusted the CPU core ratio to compensate for the increased BCLK setting of 127.4MHz. But as the option name indicates, it also is the BCLK for the PCIe buss. That affects your video cards. I'm not surprised at all if you have problems with the BCLK/PCIe ratio set that high.

Why do you have the BCLK set to 127.4MHz? What is the purpose of that? Some early DDR4 memory models would set the BCLK speed (also known as a Strap) to ~125MHz, to get the memory speed higher. Do you have the XMP profile enabled for your memory?

BTW, when you cannot start the PC into the UEFI/BIOS, with the PC off and PSU unplugged from AC power, just press the Clr CMOS button on the board's IO panel. That resets all the UEFI options to their default values, and you will be able to start into the UEFI fine. That way you won't need to use the backup UEFI B to restore UEFI A, whose net result is the same as pressing the Clr CMOS button.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 9:56pm
Thank you Parsec and Wardog,

"You'll get some increase in FPS with a CPU over clock, but how much do you actually get going from stock clocks to ~4.075GHz? How much of an increase do you want or expect from a higher OC?"  There is no accurate answer for this question. There are far to many variables within the settings of PD3 (Flight sim program) that affect its FPS. The biggest hits are AI aircraft, weather (Clouds), and the additional monitor views. So, the general rule is that you OC as much as you can to get the best frame rate as possible.  I would like to have a fairly stable 30 fps. Right now, I am getting 25-8 fps depending on the complexity of the scene. Below 15 fps you start to lost the fluidity of flight control.

"Why do you have the BCLK set to 127.4MHz? What is the purpose of that? " This is a result of Intel's Extreme Tuning program.  This program set the settings that I posted.  It has been the only attempt to remain steady and allow me to boot into Windows.  The internal ASROCK BIOS OC settings and the F-Tuning settings have always resulted in failure to boot, with one exception that got the system to 4.0 GHz. 

I have been trying to raise the Vcore voltage. I had it set to 1.21 vDC. That still wouldn't allow me to boot. I could go higher.

Wardog,  I understand you comments. However, when a manufacturer be it chip or motherboard puts out a simple OCing program, people who do not have a strong desire to learn the ins and outs of OCing will try and use it to achieve what are thought to be average results. The 4.5GHz number came for a couple of OC sites that overclocked the i7-5960 CPU. They stated that the i7-5930 could go a little higher. I settled on a compromise of 4.2GHz just to be safe. 

Parsec, thank you for the comment on the clr CMOIS button. However, because it is covered by the second GPU, I have found the A_B switch to be easier to reach.

 

John

 

John
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 2016 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by jmig jmig wrote:

Wardog,  I understand you comments. However, when a manufacturer be it chip or motherboard puts out a simple OCing program, people who do not have a strong desire to learn the ins and outs of OCing will try and use it to achieve what are thought to be average results. The 4.5GHz number came for a couple of OC sites that overclocked the i7-5960 CPU.


John, IIRC the ez oc tests what it can achieve with the "parts' it sees before setting it to boot. it wasn't meant as a slam but instead indicating that an oc is best teaked out instead of usng the hammer method ez oc does. Hence learning even the basics will get you there and most likely more stable while doing so. As an added bonus you learn along the way.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2016 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by jmig jmig wrote:

Thank you Parsec and Wardog,

"You'll get some increase in FPS with a CPU over clock, but how much do you actually get going from stock clocks to ~4.075GHz? How much of an increase do you want or expect from a higher OC?"  There is no accurate answer for this question. There are far to many variables within the settings of PD3 (Flight sim program) that affect its FPS. The biggest hits are AI aircraft, weather (Clouds), and the additional monitor views. So, the general rule is that you OC as much as you can to get the best frame rate as possible.  I would like to have a fairly stable 30 fps. Right now, I am getting 25-8 fps depending on the complexity of the scene. Below 15 fps you start to lost the fluidity of flight control.

"Why do you have the BCLK set to 127.4MHz? What is the purpose of that? " This is a result of Intel's Extreme Tuning program.  This program set the settings that I posted.  It has been the only attempt to remain steady and allow me to boot into Windows.  The internal ASROCK BIOS OC settings and the F-Tuning settings have always resulted in failure to boot, with one exception that got the system to 4.0 GHz.

I have been trying to raise the Vcore voltage. I had it set to 1.21 vDC. That still wouldn't allow me to boot. I could go higher.

Wardog,  I understand you comments. However, when a manufacturer be it chip or motherboard puts out a simple OCing program, people who do not have a strong desire to learn the ins and outs of OCing will try and use it to achieve what are thought to be average results. The 4.5GHz number came for a couple of OC sites that overclocked the i7-5960 CPU. They stated that the i7-5930 could go a little higher. I settled on a compromise of 4.2GHz just to be safe.

Parsec, thank you for the comment on the clr CMOIS button. However, because it is covered by the second GPU, I have found the A_B switch to be easier to reach.

 

John

 


Your board also has a CLR CMOS button on the board's IO panel, which is visible on the back of your PC case. That was what I wrote about in my last post.

This button is between the PS2 keyboard input, and the two blue USB 3.0 ports. It's a very small black button, and is labeled CLR CMOS. You can use a pencil eraser to push it in, or the plastic tube from a can of the compressed gas used to clean dust off PCs. Your finger nail should work too. Be sure to turn off and unplug your power supply before pressing that button.

Next about the Intel IXTU utility. The ONLY time or way that IXTU sets ANY TYPE of changes to ANY of the options available in its screens, is if the user changes them, or it takes the current UEFI option settings for the CPU and memory, from the UEFI of course.

IXTU does NOT have any kind of built in or predefined over clocking settings or profiles.

I've used Intel's IXTU for years, and I have an ASRock X99 mother board with a CPU I've over clocked, both with Haswell-E and Broadwell-E processors. So I know how it works. IXTU does not automatically over clock any processor simply by running IXTU. It does not change any of its option setting by itself.

But I can tell you what actually happened, that you are confused about.

When you run IXTU, it displays the current UEFI/BIOS option settings. The first time you ran IXTU, on the upper right side of the IXTU display you saw the System Default and Proposed values, which caused you to think IXTU over clocked your processor. The settings you saw in IXTU were already set in your board's UEFI/BIOS. That is all there is to that. Unless of course you set them yourself. You apparently applied those settings in IXTU, which are being applied automatically by IXTU every time you start the PC.

When you run IXTU, it remains running, and when you shutdown and then start the PC again, IXTU will be running in the background. You can find in the the Taskbar "Show hidden Icons" list, on the far right of the Task Bar, next to the networking icon. IXTU is applying an OC that was apparently set in the UEFI/BIOS at one time.

The 127MHz BCLK setting must be from your memory OC (DDR4 at 2666 is a memory OC, all Haswell-E HEDT processors have a maximum specified memory speed of 2133), as using that memory "strap" (normally 125MHz) was one method of over clocking early models of DDR4 memory on X99 platforms, the first one to use DDR4.

Your PC won't boot with the 127MHz BCLK, but will actually run in Windows with that BCLK. I have seen that happen in the past, without going into the details explaining why.

The 127MHz BCLK that must have come from your memory, makes it difficult for you to OC. I'd like you to check what the BCLK is in your UEFI/BIOS, when the memory speed is 2666. Are you using the XMP profile?

The best way to OC any CPU, is to set the memory speed to its stock speed, which is 2133 (BCLK = 100MHz). Then OC the CPU using the core ratio multipliers, VCore, and Load Line Calibration settings. Once you have a stable CPU OC, then you can OC your memory. But if the XMP profile changes the BCLK to 127MHz, that will affect the CPU OC. I would like to know if your memory's XMP profile is the source of the 127MHz BCLK.

Yes you should increase the VCore as one way to stabilize an OC.

I understand the reasons for a higher FPS rate. I'm simply saying is a high CPU OC really going to produce a 10+ FPS increase. I you are only at 30FPS now, your current video cards in SLI are not cutting it at all, and your quest for higher FPS rates via a CPU OC is not the ultimate answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jmig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2016 at 7:26am
Thank you Parsec and Wardog for you detailed answers and patience with me.

Parsec, I have no idea where the 127.4MHz setting to the BCLK came from? I didn't, at least I didn't try to OC the memory. I assume that it came from one of the various attempts at OCing from either F-Streaming or the UEFI Optimized settings?  I have either used the automatic F-Steaming function on the bottom of the OC page and watched it slowly go up to 4.0 or 4.2MHz (The two I have tried) or I used the Optomized settings the program or UEFI offered. 

I was going to say that I would leave it at 4.075MHz for now, since it seems stable, and then read up more on OCing. At a later time (meaning when it doesn't matter if I screw it up and have to start all over again) I will try to increase the OC closer to 4.5MHz. Now, I am concerned that the out of spec memory OC might harm something. I may just bite the bullet and go back to factory spec.

Trying to get a flight simulator system to perform at it highest is the Holy Grail of flight simming. It is also something of a dog chasing its tail. Lockheed Martain's Prepar3D (PD3) is a refined version of Microsoft's FSX. It is a 32 bit program and it's very CPU weighed. It was actually never designed for multicore processors. LM has done work on getting it to use more cores, but it isn't near perfect. So, processor speed is paramont. At least until they develop the 64 bit program.

The dog chassing its tail comes in to play with the more powerful or tweeked processor's ability to give you greater eye-candy in the form of more detail. So, you get a smoother running system, then youy add more eye-candy and are back to where you started. Which brings us back to either a faster computer or OCing the processor. I am not at the point where I want to invest in another computer.

FYI - I am not running in SLI. I have one GPU running the projector and one monitor. The other GPU handles the remaining monitors. From what I have read, SLI doesn't do much for increasing the fps in flight simming. It all goes back to the CPU.

Thank you also for pointing out the location of the CLR CMOS. I had fogotten that button.  I do recall reading about it, now that you have pointed it out to me. 

John


John
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