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Asrock U.2 sff-8639 adapter?

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    Posted: 12 Jul 2015 at 1:26am
There are two main types of M.2 SSDs, standard SATA and the PCIe types, for a lack of better terms. The interface or "key" on those two types are different, but normally fit and work in an M.2 slot/port/interface.

The SATA M.2 SSDs are the same as a standard 2.5" SATA SSD regarding drivers, and are detected by the Intel IRST driver and Windows UI just like standard SSDs.

The PCIe SSDs like the Samsung XP941 and SM951 have their own SATA controller on the drive itself, and use the standard Windows AHCI driver, msahci or storahci.

When using these SSDs you'll get a Device Manage entry under IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers, Standard SATA AHCI Controller. They also need the Intel UEFI compatible SATA Option ROM that is part of the UEFI/BIOS image. Plus a UEFI/BIOS update is needed before they can be bootable. These SSDs are not recognized by the IRST Windows UI, and in fact I cannot get the IRST Windows UI to install on my Z97 Extreme6 board when my SM951 is the OS drive. The IRST driver installs fine.

The main reason the PCIe M.2 SSDs are popular in desktop PCs is because they perform better (more in benchmarks than actual use IMO) than SATA SSDs. Plus they are a clean, simple installation, no cables to deal with.



Regarding Skylake information, don't forget NDA... Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2015 at 2:10am
Thank you, I wasn't sure but I didn't want anyone to think I think they aren't the best. 

Sorta like with a low end SSD vs Top end,  benching shows massive results but in a windows environment running software there's not much, not like with data transfer numbers.

I don't get the M2,  just seems like  it's a laptop interface and has no place in a desktop.  

I know it's off PCI-E, but there's the 750 like you said and these interface SSD's have been around a long time, just not  NV.

I haven't looked at M2,  where does it get it's driver from, is it firmware in the UEFI ? 

I see a lot of people with problems trying to boot OS from M2, and there's more problems with windows 10.  I will be looking into the win 10 problem a little, but if I was to go off the Sata 3, it will be the 750 and not a M2. 

Sata-E, I'm still laughing at that one,  it's almost like the one where Ivy bridge was needed for PCI-E 3.0, but even when you used a 3.0 hardware in it and then put it on sandy there was no difference. 

We see a lot of numbers, but we don't always get the data to use them. 

P.S.  Sure wish you had some pull with ASrock to find out when we will see 1151, LOL

 



Edited by odiebugs - 10 Jul 2015 at 2:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2015 at 1:57am
Thanks odiebugs, I was agreeing with your earlier posts in this thread, and I still do.

Some owners of the Intel 750 NVMe SSD have reported slower booting times compared with their SATA III SSDs. The Microsoft NVMe driver seems to not work well with the Samsung NVMe version of the SM951 (or whatever it is called now.) Intel supplies an NVMe driver for the 750.

I considered an Intel 750, but got a Samsung SM951 instead. IMO, NVMe needs to get sorted out for PC use, so I'll wait a while.

I don't get the SATA Express support on mobos, not one SE SSD exists.

Samsung just announced new 2TB SSDs, not sure about the prices.

If anyone is still complaining about SSD prices, and don't have one, they are missing out on the best upgrade they could do for their PC.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2015 at 1:27am
Nice post Parsec.   Heavy workloads,  multitasking with large amounts of data will see some real difference. Basically enterprise.  

I was kinda pointing out for most people, gamers  light video work, Apps,   won't really enjoy the benefits of it all the time, but once in a while. 

Then again, when the time comes that it will be priced close to what HDD are,  I bet everyone will have it.     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2015 at 1:16am
NVMe is really the next evolution of NCQ provided by AHCI, with other important enhancements.

Instead of one 32 IO command queue, NVMe provides up to 64K IO command Submission Queues, with each queue containing up to 64K IO commands. NVMe also provides multiple IO Completion Queues, paired with a Submission Queue, that contains the data requested.

Completion queues can be associated with CPU cores, so the data can be processed in parallel.

In typical PC usage when using a SSD, the AHCI NCQ queue depth rarely if ever reaches four IO commands, since SSDs are so fast at providing data. So the new IO request and data queuing capability won't be used much by most of us.

The Submission and Completion Queues are controlled by software (NVMe driver) which is not active during OS booting (or at least some of it) so does not make booting faster.

The NVMe enhancement that will benefit PC users is its reduced processing overhead for random, small IO requests. That kind of IO is slowest in any storage device.

Non-volatile storage IO is the main bottleneck in all computers, hopefully NVMe will benefit PC users and enterprise usage.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2015 at 4:45am
Sata itself will live on for some time. For most users its still the best priced option. And with 3D-nand prices dropping we will see some very nicely-priced disks coming. Sata express was more or less just a cry for help, since most SSDs has already reached the roof of performance. I dont think there will be any users adapting for sata express. Too bad they didnt raise the bar a bit higher. 

I think the NVMe disks will be good for all different scenarios. Especially for windows swapping around in tons of small files. The differance between NVMe and SATA SSD is even bigger than the change from rotating platters to SSD. But maybe its getting harder to tell now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2015 at 4:40am
Originally posted by sparx sparx wrote:

I suspect Sata Express will die before even someone presents a drive where its useable. 
Sure, U.2 is still a bit early. Not really a conformed standard. The connectivity to motherboards is a bit of a mess. But the drives are here to stay. Or atleast NVMe. It just needs to become better priced. But the Intel 750 series are a good start! And motherboard manufactorers need to start placing an SFF-8643 (with PCIe) on the boards itself. Maybe for Skylake we will see it.
Sata -E is dead.

It's useless with RAID around, the only way to go is the PCI-E bridge, like with the drives you posted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odiebugs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2015 at 4:38am
Originally posted by sparx sparx wrote:

There are some great NVMe disks from several manufactorers. Read up on Intel P3700, Samsung SM1715 or Micron P420m.
They all have sustained read around 3GB/s and 2GB/s write. 
IOPS between 500k and closer to 1M.
Show me a raid setup that will get you a million IOPS! :)
Another thing is the extremely low latency with NVMe. In microseconds, not milli.

Its not hype. Its the future.
Thanks for the post.   The critical words of my post are usually to get people to give more and a better answer. 

Maybe someday well shed Sata on boards all together.  The drives you posted are a lot better than the old PCI-E cards without NNMe.  

I was looking for the U2 hardware that you were talking about  that uses the M2 Adpt.  

These will transfer data at blazing speed,  but will they really make any difference in regular OS use.   

Trying to beat a 2-6 boot time no big deal,  but software,   editing,  video,   rely more on CPU and  not so much any drive. 

But yes,  you are right about the rest and for people who transfer or have Bluray files,  it will save hundreds of hours moving files.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote sparx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2015 at 4:29am
I suspect Sata Express will die before even someone presents a drive where its useable. 
Sure, U.2 is still a bit early. Not really a conformed standard. The connectivity to motherboards is a bit of a mess. But the drives are here to stay. Or atleast NVMe. It just needs to become better priced. But the Intel 750 series are a good start! And motherboard manufactorers need to start placing an SFF-8643 (with PCIe) on the boards itself. Maybe for Skylake we will see it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Xaltar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2015 at 4:25am
For the average user, even enthusiast these drives are still a pipe-dream. They do have phenomenal commercial value however, especially in data servers and streaming systems. I would imagine they would be massively popular with MMO servers as well given the ever increasing desire to reduce latency.  
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