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X370 Taichi and 1700X

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Ken429 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 5:35pm
I just assembled my first AMD based system! It consists of:
X370 Taichi MB BIOS Version 230
X1700 Ryzen Processor running at 3.8GHz
EVGA Memory 2X8GB DDR4 3000 1.35V Cas Latency 15
MSI GTX 560 TI Video Adapter
MasterLiquid Pro 280 AOI
Samsung 250GB 960 EVO NVMe M.2 Boot Device
Crucial 500 GB MX200
Seasonic 760XP Power Supply
Corsair 750D Case
Windows 10 Pro ver. 1703

I'm almost a very happy camper. The AMD system transcodes a test BluRay to MP4 in 41% less time than a 4790K running @ 4.6GHz. That's about what I expected based upon all the benchmark stuff on the internet.

Several things still aren't quite right:

ASRock's "Restart to UEFI" does not work - it boots right back to W10.

The Z97 Extreme/4790K system with the Samsung 960 EVO NVMe device boots to the Post Screen in ~6 seconds. The X370 Taichi/1700X system takes ~9 seconds to boot to the Post Screen. Both systems have the Samsung device in the Ultra M.2 slot. It almost seems like the Taichi BIOS is having trouble with something. I'm about ready to make an "old" Sandisk SSD the boot drive!

The CPU temperature is a bit of mystery - under full load on all threads for an extended period HWInfo64 says the maximum temperatures reached were 77.6 (Tctl) and 57.6 (Tcle) (the 20C anomaly?). Seems pretty low considering the CPU is clocked at 38 and using a Vcore of 1.28V. Either I have a very good chip or I'm not understanding what is going on. Most of the people posting on the Internet are using much higher voltages to get to 3.8GHz. This thing is very stable and seems like it wants to go faster @ 1.28V? I haven't spent much time trying to find what Vcore setting is the minimum for 3.8GHz but I've gone from 1.36V to 1.30V and now 1.28V and the CPU temperatures, if I can believe them, don't change that much?!

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Ken429 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken429 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 5:58pm
In my original Post I said the Z97 Extreme6/4790K BIOS posted from a cold boot in ~6 seconds and I mistakenly (Or the X370 Taichi/1700X is getting slower) since it takes ~19 seconds to boot to the first BIOS screen from a cold start. Something ain't right! Is it just me or is this a known issue?

Edited by Ken429 - 08 Jun 2017 at 7:14pm
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Dogmifier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogmifier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:07pm
Ken, question

did you set it to "Fast" or "Ultra fast" boot? If so, I don't think it will go into UEFI until you reset CMOS and try again.

As for the boot time, I think the AMD Post times are a bit slower than Intels...this may change as the platform matures...

The CPU temp I think stems from software not reading things correctly...tho again, I could be wrong...my temps and voltages jump all over using any software that monitors them

I don't have a taichi, but a gaming K4
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16GB Crucial
1200W Corsair
evga GTX 1080
Samsung 950 Pro
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken429 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:17pm
I just edited my post while you were answering my original post. Taking ~19 seconds to get to the first BIOS screen is a symptom of a problem? I'll try the Fast Boot and see what happens.
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Dogmifier View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogmifier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:22pm
Originally posted by Ken429 Ken429 wrote:

I just edited my post while you were answering my original post. Taking ~19 seconds to get to the first BIOS screen is a symptom of a problem? I'll try the Fast Boot and see what happens.


I would say the post taking 19 seconds is (not correct, but correct for now) right...post is slow on these machines right now as far as I know..

maybe parsecs or wardog has better insight than I do..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken429 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:34pm
Dogmifier,
I started to set the BIOS to Ultafast boot and then read the description in the BIOS and got cold feet. It seems to say that once set to Ultrafast the only way to get back into the BIOS setup is to Clear CMOS. Since I'm still playing with the BIOS settings I don't think I want to go there?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dogmifier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Ken429 Ken429 wrote:

Dogmifier,
I started to set the BIOS to Ultafast boot and then read the description in the BIOS and got cold feet. It seems to say that once set to Ultrafast the only way to get back into the BIOS setup is to Clear CMOS. Since I'm still playing with the BIOS settings I don't think I want to go there?!


Yeah, that's what it does...I was asking if you had that set, not to set it....

sorry for the misunderstanding...

Not sure why you're not going into UEFI if that's not set.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken429 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 7:59pm
Dogmifier,

I am able to enter the BIOS? AND I want to be able to do that since I'm still playing with the multiplier and Vcore looking to see what this thing will do. I don't know if 3800 MHz at 1.28125V is good or not. Still looking for some input from others with this processor and possibly M/B.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote datonyb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 10:30pm
x370 taichi (bios version 2.0)
r7 1700 (non X ) OVERCLOCKED IN P STATES TO 3.9 GHZ all cores voltage set at fixed 1.306v (in p states) LLC set at level 2
SOC voltage set at 1.0v LLC for soc ,set fixed at level 2
m2 nvme sansung evo 960 as boot drive
sata 3 ssd samsung evo 850 as data/games drives
2 x 8gb tridentz ram running at 3200 mhtz from day one
amd boot training turned OFF

to be honest i dont find the boot time an issue  its circa 5-10 seconds to windows log in screen
its quite fine for me it gives me time to hit the del key if i want to go into bios or sit down and place my ciggies on desk before log in screen
[url=https://valid.x86.fr/jpg250][/url]

3800X, powercolor reddevil vega64, gskill tridentz3866, taichix370, evga750watt gold
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jun 2017 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by Ken429 Ken429 wrote:

I just assembled my first AMD based system! It consists of:
X370 Taichi MB BIOS Version 230
X1700 Ryzen Processor running at 3.8GHz
EVGA Memory 2X8GB DDR4 3000 1.35V Cas Latency 15
MSI GTX 560 TI Video Adapter
MasterLiquid Pro 280 AOI
Samsung 250GB 960 EVO NVMe M.2 Boot Device
Crucial 500 GB MX200
Seasonic 760XP Power Supply
Corsair 750D Case
Windows 10 Pro ver. 1703

I'm almost a very happy camper. The AMD system transcodes a test BluRay to MP4 in 41% less time than a 4790K running @ 4.6GHz. That's about what I expected based upon all the benchmark stuff on the internet.

Several things still aren't quite right:

ASRock's "Restart to UEFI" does not work - it boots right back to W10.

The Z97 Extreme/4790K system with the Samsung 960 EVO NVMe device boots to the Post Screen in ~6 seconds. The X370 Taichi/1700X system takes ~9 seconds to boot to the Post Screen. Both systems have the Samsung device in the Ultra M.2 slot. It almost seems like the Taichi BIOS is having trouble with something. I'm about ready to make an "old" Sandisk SSD the boot drive!

The CPU temperature is a bit of mystery - under full load on all threads for an extended period HWInfo64 says the maximum temperatures reached were 77.6 (Tctl) and 57.6 (Tcle) (the 20C anomaly?). Seems pretty low considering the CPU is clocked at 38 and using a Vcore of 1.28V. Either I have a very good chip or I'm not understanding what is going on. Most of the people posting on the Internet are using much higher voltages to get to 3.8GHz. This thing is very stable and seems like it wants to go faster @ 1.28V? I haven't spent much time trying to find what Vcore setting is the minimum for 3.8GHz but I've gone from 1.36V to 1.30V and now 1.28V and the CPU temperatures, if I can believe them, don't change that much?!



The 19 second POST time sounds like you are checking the Task Manager Startup tab "Last BIOS time". If that is right, that is exactly what I get with my ASRock X370 Killer SLI/ac board with a 1700X. Completely normal so far with Ryzen.

Ryzen POST time is slow compared to an Intel system. As datonyb said, you can disable AMD Advanced Boot Training to speed up POST time, but in some cases your memory may not be able to reach high speeds with that option disabled. Ryzen does not support a memory speed of 3000, so what is your memory at now, 2933?

Using the Ultra Fast setting of Fast Boot won't change the POST time very much. I use it and the difference is only a few seconds. You'll get a shorter startup time just disabling AMD Advanced Boot Training. It won't get the startup time down to Intel levels, but it is improved. Don't forget this is all POST time, nothing to do with Windows booting. Z97 boards have very short POST times for some reason, shorter than Z170. That might be due to the change in using the chipset resources for the M.2 slots in Z170, instead of the CPU's PCIe lanes in Z97. Ryzen is using the CPU's PCIe lanes for any M.2 slots that are PCIe 3.0 x4. The M2_2 slot on the X370 Taichi is PCIe 2.0 x4 through the chipset.

Personally, using a 960 EVO as the OS drive, once I hear the single POST Ok beep, the OS boots almost as fast as an Intel PC, I don't see any spinning dots when Windows is starting. That of course is from a cold boot, when the Win 10 fast startup feature is active. It takes a little longer on a restart, but not terrible. Ryzen's small file 4K read performance is not as good as Intel's so far, it suffers if any CPU power saving features are active. The same it true for Intel PCs, but so far Ryzen is a bit slower under the same circumstances.

POST time on Intel board's like a Z170 were known to be slower when using NVMe SSDs as the OS drive. Z270 PC are faster for some reason. Windows boot time has clearly hit a wall, since it is not much faster with NVMe SSDs than SATA SSDs.

You are not understanding what you must do to use the Ultra Fast setting, and how to get into the UEFI/BIOS when you use it.

Your Windows installation must be full UEFI booting, with CSM disabled or at least the Launch Storage OpROM Policy option set to UEFI Only, with CSM enabled. That needs to be done when you install Windows, and will not work with Windows 7. You use Win 10, so that is not an issue.

When you install Windows, you must select in the boot order the entry for the Windows installation media the entry that is, "UEFI: <device name>", which signals the Windows installer to partition the OS drive as GPT, and creates four partitions.

When using the Ultra Fast setting, you must use the ASRock Restart to UEFI program that you run in Windows. Otherwise you cannot get into the UEFI/BIOS the usual ways. I've had problems with this program for the first time on my Ryzen PC, it fails to work with a memory OC for some reason. Always works perfectly with my Intel PCs, been using it for years. You have the same problem I see. Restart to UEFI actually uses a feature added to Windows starting with Win 8, that restarts the PC right into the UEFI/BIOS interface. Why it fails with Ryzen, I don't know.

The two CPU temperatures you see, Tctl and Tdie are programmed into a Ryzen processor by AMD. You are correct the difference (offset) is exactly 20° C. The point of those two temperatures, according to AMD, is apparently to control the stock AM4 CPU cooler's fan speed, given the differences between eight core Ryzen 7 processors, and Ryzen 5 processors. Tdie is the correct temperature to monitor with a Ryzen 7 CPU.

3.8GHz is not a high OC, as I'm sure you know. Normally the VCore needs increase above 3.8GHz. But it seems you have a good CPU.

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