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x399 Taichi + TR1950x high CPU temps @ idle

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dpriest View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Mar 2018 at 2:18pm
This thread is too good to be true.  I have been pulling my hair out until now. I have been having the SAME experience!!  I just built my own system for the first time with the:

Asrock X399 Taichi
Threadripper 1959X
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360
Noctua NT-H1 Thermal paste

The idle temperature reading in my BIOS is reading 62 Celsius and HWINFO is 29 Celsius.  I was on the phone for hours with Asrock tech support, AMD support and Enermax support, none of which knew or mentioned this 20 degree difference in the BIOS.  I removed the block from the CPU and re-seeded it two more times with no change at all.  I AM NOT OVERCLOCKING MY SYSTEM AT ALL but will be doing a lot of processor intensive applications with Handbrake for hours.  My older system that I have replaced with this one has the Intel i7-4770K processor with the ASUS H87M-E motherboard.  I booted that system up and the idle CPU temperature in the BIOS is 29 Celsius which alarmed me thinking there is a problem with my cooling and the processor is running too hot on the Threadripper.  What amazes me is that between Asrock, AMD and Enermax, nobody could help me let alone have heard about this issue with Threadripper. I did RMA my Enermax cooler from New Egg before reading this thread so a new cooler will be here in a couple of days.  I will install it for kicks but won't expect any differences.

The only remaining mystery is why this new build that is supposed to be a complete ripping fast beast of a system is sluggish and drags miserably with Windows 10.  Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks in advance!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david_6x7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 5:43am
Hi!

Just posting a quick followup.

X399 Taichi
1950X
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360

I am doing some stress testing running Prime95 on the 1950X while monitoring with hwinfo.

After about an hour of prime95 the CPU temperature (Tdie) is between 48C and 53C depending on when the fans kick up a notch - this happens at a Tctl value of 80C - the increased fans cool the CPU down until they slow again and it warms back up to 53C. Tctl is reported as 27C higher than Tdie since the offset for the 1950X is 27C (as far as I know).

Core utilization is pretty much 100% across the board. The chip is running stock (no BIOS overclocks) and the multipliers are reported as x37 on all cores ... which would tend to indicate that the AMD feature that increases clocks if there is sufficient cooling is working correctly since the base clock on the 1950X is x34.

Turning to the hwinfo temperature values apparently reported by the motherboard. The CPU temperature in the motherboard section is reported as 80C when Tctl is 80C and Tdie is 53C. The motherboard CPU temperature tracks the Tctl value reported.

According to another source which was discussing other Ryzen processors:

https://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-Ryzen-1700x-temp-sensor-which-one?pid=13856#pid13856

Tctl is the temperature reported by the embedded CPU temperature sensor and includes the offset. For threadripper this would be 27C.
 
Based on this, it seems to me that the X399 Taichi just reports Tctl as the CPU temperature in the BIOS which includes the 27C offset for threadripper. As a result, the 62C reported in the BIOS actually represents a more reasonable 35C CPU temperature.

Anyway, folks can do their own research :) ... but it seems to me that the high CPU temperatures reported in the X399 Taichi BIOS are likely due to the 27C offset that is included in the temperature sensor data produced by the on-chip sensor in threadripper.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wardog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by david_6x7 david_6x7 wrote:


Another poster suggested that the BIOS would be putting a full load on the CPU as well as maximum voltage thus generating a lot of heat. This makes no sense to me since I haven't seen this type of behaviour in any other build. The BIOS should not be stressing the CPU at all and if it is then that would be a different BIOS issue.


The temps you see in the BIOS are due to many reasons. And the variances will vary from chip/bios so your past experiences don't relate to this build.

The Liqtech? Do you have the option to set a Min RPM?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote david_6x7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 12:37pm
Hi!

I just wanted to say that I have the same experience.
X399 Taichi
TR1950X
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360

Immediately upon entering the BIOS the CPU temperature is reported as 62C. I've reseated the cooler which had no effect. I am using Arctic Silver 5 thermal paste.

In Linux, using the K10temps module in the latest Ubuntu kernel release (4.15), the idle/low load CPU temperature is reported at 23.9C.

Another poster suggested that the BIOS would be putting a full load on the CPU as well as maximum voltage thus generating a lot of heat. This makes no sense to me since I haven't seen this type of behaviour in any other build. The BIOS should not be stressing the CPU at all and if it is then that would be a different BIOS issue.

The fans on the cooler are running. The pump is attached to the CPU_OPT/W_PUMP header near the CPU socket. I have set this header in the BIOS to W_PUMP and the mode to DC rather than PWM (this did not change the temperatures reported in the BIOS). I may try using the supplied Molex adapter for the water pump and connect it directly to the power supply to see if the issue could be related to proper power being supplied to the water pump from the motherboard while in the BIOS.

On the other hand, maybe the CPU is that hot ... but as mentioned, I've never seen that previously.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 2017 at 1:58am
Originally posted by ssateneth ssateneth wrote:

What monitoring program are you using for temperatures? The on-die temperature sensor (hwinfo64 will call it Tctl) is set to be 27C higher than actual temperature (Tdie is derived from Tctl, removing this offset). The CPU temperature sensor derived from the Nuvoton NCT6779D chip also uses Tctl. This isn't a motherboard thing, or a 1 off thing. AMD set their CPUs to do this on purpose, for the purpose of tuning boost/XFR frequencies and fan speed curves.

If you want my experience, I watercool using outside air (northern wisconsin, USA, so its close to 0C right now. Coolant about 5C). The chip's Tctl reports an idle temperature of 38C at the lowest, which is a bit silly for a completely idling chip pulling no more than 20-30 watts (if that), especially for a MCM design and dies soldered to the IHS.

So if temperatures seem unrealistic high, remove 27C and see if its more reasonable (or use hwinfo64 and rely on Tdie)
Really? How silly! AS if we aren't capable of setting correct fan curves. Why does AMD need to confuse us. AS stated in the OP, I was using the HW monitor in the BIOS. I'll check which one it is but it would make sense that it is the TCTL. 

I'm curious, what do you do when it's 20 below? Tongue


Edited by daddyo - 01 Nov 2017 at 1:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by parsec parsec wrote:

Originally posted by daddyo daddyo wrote:

X399 Taichi
TR1950x
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360.

I'm just started with this build, and have hit a couple snags. One of them is the 49c idle CPU temp reported in H/W monitor. Motherboard sensor is at 30c, which is about a 8c delta over ambient. That means that the cpu delta over ambient is ~ 27c while IDLE.

I've tried re-seating the cooler plate after re-application of Arctic MX4 thermal compound, which is one of the best you can get. I have the best suited AIO liquid cooler currently available for TR4, and so I'm surprised at the idle temps on this. I have not yet been able to install windows, but I doubt it would make a difference. This is all from the UEFI. 

Are there others out there who have had the same experience? I guess I should mention i am NOT overclocking this. Default settings, with 1.70 BIOS version.


Why is using the UEFI UI considered idle? While only one core is actually being used in the UEFI, it is likely pegged near 100%. The other cores while doing nothing are getting the full VCore. None of the processor power saving options are active while in the UEFI. No influence from a power plan in the OS. VCore is constant in the UEFI.

I haven't seen a recent platform, AMD or Intel, where the CPU temperature is not higher in the UEFI than in Windows. By a significant amount.

Are you familiar with Ryzen's Tdie and Tctl temperature readings from the processor? The dies used in TRipper are the same or better than those used in the 1800X, which reports Tctl, which is Tdie plus a 20° C offset. You're seeing Tctl in the UEFI. You'll need to ask AMD why they have both Tdie and Tctl.

Install Windows and then check your CPU temperature. It will be different than in the UEFI, guaranteed. Even then it depends upon which program you use. Don't expect all of them to use the same thing. HWiNFO64 will show both Tdie and Tctl. TRipper should report both Tdie and Tctl.

Otherwise, what do you think is wrong? I use a 360mm radiator AIO CPU cooler with my Ryzen 1700X, I get UEFI temperatures a bit over 50° C. In Windows, idle temperature, Tdie is below 25° C.

X399/TRipper, like Ryzen, is unique, you just need to experience it for a while. What system are you coming from that is so different?




Thank you for the detailed info. I was not aware that entering BIOS mode could load up a core to 100%. It makes no sense, but I'll take your word for it. It's a relief to know this. I'll look forward to seeing what is reported by HWINF064.

To answer your question, this is my first AMD build. I've been on Intel platforms since Pentium 3. My most recent Intel build was on the z170 chipset, with an Asrock mobo. Prior to that, x99, x68, whatever. I've never seen a 27c temperature difference between what the CPU monitor reports in BIOS and a Windows app like CoreTemp, for instance. So forgive me if I was a bit alarmed and thought there might be a problem. You seem to think it's commonplace, on that note I would disagree.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote parsec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 11:14am
Originally posted by daddyo daddyo wrote:

X399 Taichi
TR1950x
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360.

I'm just started with this build, and have hit a couple snags. One of them is the 49c idle CPU temp reported in H/W monitor. Motherboard sensor is at 30c, which is about a 8c delta over ambient. That means that the cpu delta over ambient is ~ 27c while IDLE.

I've tried re-seating the cooler plate after re-application of Arctic MX4 thermal compound, which is one of the best you can get. I have the best suited AIO liquid cooler currently available for TR4, and so I'm surprised at the idle temps on this. I have not yet been able to install windows, but I doubt it would make a difference. This is all from the UEFI. 

Are there others out there who have had the same experience? I guess I should mention i am NOT overclocking this. Default settings, with 1.70 BIOS version.


Why is using the UEFI UI considered idle? While only one core is actually being used in the UEFI, it is likely pegged near 100%. The other cores while doing nothing are getting the full VCore. None of the processor power saving options are active while in the UEFI. No influence from a power plan in the OS. VCore is constant in the UEFI.

I haven't seen a recent platform, AMD or Intel, where the CPU temperature is not higher in the UEFI than in Windows. By a significant amount.

Are you familiar with Ryzen's Tdie and Tctl temperature readings from the processor? The dies used in TRipper are the same or better than those used in the 1800X, which reports Tctl, which is Tdie plus a 20° C offset. You're seeing Tctl in the UEFI. You'll need to ask AMD why they have both Tdie and Tctl.

Install Windows and then check your CPU temperature. It will be different than in the UEFI, guaranteed. Even then it depends upon which program you use. Don't expect all of them to use the same thing. HWiNFO64 will show both Tdie and Tctl. TRipper should report both Tdie and Tctl.

Otherwise, what do you think is wrong? I use a 360mm radiator AIO CPU cooler with my Ryzen 1700X, I get UEFI temperatures a bit over 50° C. In Windows, idle temperature, Tdie is below 25° C.

X399/TRipper, like Ryzen, is unique, you just need to experience it for a while. What system are you coming from that is so different?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ssateneth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 8:32am
What monitoring program are you using for temperatures? The on-die temperature sensor (hwinfo64 will call it Tctl) is set to be 27C higher than actual temperature (Tdie is derived from Tctl, removing this offset). The CPU temperature sensor derived from the Nuvoton NCT6779D chip also uses Tctl. This isn't a motherboard thing, or a 1 off thing. AMD set their CPUs to do this on purpose, for the purpose of tuning boost/XFR frequencies and fan speed curves.

If you want my experience, I watercool using outside air (northern wisconsin, USA, so its close to 0C right now. Coolant about 5C). The chip's Tctl reports an idle temperature of 38C at the lowest, which is a bit silly for a completely idling chip pulling no more than 20-30 watts (if that), especially for a MCM design and dies soldered to the IHS.

So if temperatures seem unrealistic high, remove 27C and see if its more reasonable (or use hwinfo64 and rely on Tdie)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daddyo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 2017 at 5:12am
X399 Taichi
TR1950x
Enermax Liqtech TR4 360.

I'm just started with this build, and have hit a couple snags. One of them is the 49c idle CPU temp reported in H/W monitor. Motherboard sensor is at 30c, which is about a 8c delta over ambient. That means that the cpu delta over ambient is ~ 27c while IDLE.

I've tried re-seating the cooler plate after re-application of Arctic MX4 thermal compound, which is one of the best you can get. I have the best suited AIO liquid cooler currently available for TR4, and so I'm surprised at the idle temps on this. I have not yet been able to install windows, but I doubt it would make a difference. This is all from the UEFI. 

Are there others out there who have had the same experience? I guess I should mention i am NOT overclocking this. Default settings, with 1.70 BIOS version.


Edited by daddyo - 31 Oct 2017 at 5:13am
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